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ANNOUNCEMENT: The Future of DumaOS: Version 3.0

Netduma Luke

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Netduma Fraser

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On 10/4/2019 at 8:24 AM, Killhippie said:

Sadly that's something I may not be able to do any more. With no guarantees as to updates for releases in the future, let alone no DumaOS updates for months to come and no promise of XR compatibility (because of company NDA's)  let alone no guarantees this wont happen again, its time to find another router as my daily driver instead of the XR500 I think. Just imagine if Microsoft/Apple/Google etc released a new operating system then left it for over a year with no updates for bugs until the next version and then no guarantees your hardware would get it. Its almost back to front in my view. Companies patch so that if there is no new OS for your hardware you have the best version you can have on the hardware you own and to just fix bugs too as a matter of course. The whole create a new version of DumaOS instead of patching the old one will always be my sticking point. :( 

I would say the refinements will fix most of the issues, whether or not Netgear decide to take on all of the features but lets face it - why wouldn't they?!  So although it's the longer method of patching bugs it should be more sustainable in the future and produce less bugs hopefully. Totally understand if you're too fedup by it, that why we brought out the insider program to try and be more transparent with what we're up to.

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Netduma Luke
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The Future of DumaOS: Version 3.0 UPDATE: Sign-ups are now open for the DumaOS 3.0 beta! More info here: https://netduma.com/blog/beta-signups-live/ Last year we released our first major upd

Netduma Alex
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Ok i've added all of you to the list! We'll email you on your forum email address if you're in. You'll then be added to a private subforum where you can read the rules (non-disclosure and such) a

Master Kief
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I've now owned the XR500 for 1.5 years and to this day: No IPv6 without killing off the QOS. No USB printer support. Incorrect network activity stats. No control over VPN se

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CrossFitKila717

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8 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

I would say the refinements will fix most of the issues, whether or not Netgear decide to take on all of the features but lets face it - why wouldn't they?!  So although it's the longer method of patching bugs it should be more sustainable in the future and produce less bugs hopefully. Totally understand if you're too fedup by it, that why we brought out the insider program to try and be more transparent with what we're up to.

What do you mean by “why would they”? Do they not need the update or something?

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Netduma Fraser

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18 minutes ago, CrossFitKila717 said:

What do you mean by “why would they”? Do they not need the update or something?

I mean why wouldn't they want the features when they're great features. I'm just saying I'm sure they would want them.

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On 10/5/2019 at 1:28 PM, Netduma Fraser said:

I would say the refinements will fix most of the issues, whether or not Netgear decide to take on all of the features but lets face it - why wouldn't they?!  So although it's the longer method of patching bugs it should be more sustainable in the future and produce less bugs hopefully. Totally understand if you're too fedup by it, that why we brought out the insider program to try and be more transparent with what we're up to.

I appreciate the more transparent side of things here now, Fraser. I still think your devs have patching backwards, I know of no other company that releases new operating systems without patches for their software in between major releases. Its just seems to me a retrograde way of doing things. Apple have just released macOS Catalina and its buggy, now imagine if no point releases came until next year with macOS 10.16 Users would go mad and Apple would never sell another computer probably, same for iOS, Android, Windows, Linux etc.  That is just not how you do things in my view and no matter what the new version hopes and expectations are it will have bugs, you cant make bug free software, its impossible.

 I'm just hoping DumaOS 4.0 or another incarnation of DumaOS wont be the fix for DumaOS 3.0's bugs.  Until I can see a point release path rather than 8-12 month gaps between updates to fix issues with DumaOS software pushed to Netgear hardware, I've had to remove the XR500 as my daily driver for now and box it up. I'm aware this may not be all your fault believe me, and I know you guys work really hard and I will continue to help where I can, but the XR development cycle in my view is unacceptable as it stands. I look forward though to seeing what your plans are with DumaOS nevertheless. Right time for more more coffee ;) 

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Netduma Alex

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5 hours ago, migueltaveras6 said:

Will it fix my bufferbloat? Cause man I'm so close in returning this real quick!

I've replied to you in this thread: 

 

2 hours ago, Killhippie said:

I appreciate the more transparent side of things here now, Fraser. I still think your devs have patching backwards, I know of no other company that releases new operating systems without patches for their software in between major releases. Its just seems to me a retrograde way of doing things. Apple have just released macOS Catalina and its buggy, now imagine if no point releases came until next year with macOS 10.16 Users would go mad and Apple would never sell another computer probably, same for iOS, Android, Windows, Linux etc.  That is just not how you do things in my view and no matter what the new version hopes and expectations are it will have bugs, you cant make bug free software, its impossible.

 I'm just hoping DumaOS 4.0 or another incarnation of DumaOS wont be the fix for DumaOS 3.0's bugs.  Until I can see a point release path rather than 8-12 month gaps between updates to fix issues with DumaOS software pushed toon Netgear hardware, I've had to remove the XR500 as my daily driver for now and box it up. I'm aware this may not be all your fault believe me, and I know you guys work really hard and I will continue to help where I can, but the XR development cycle in my view is unacceptable as it stands. I look forward though to seeing what your plans are with DumaOS nevertheless. Right time for more more coffee ;) 

That IS the plan, the reason we've not been so good at bug patching so far is because we've not had the staff. We've got enough people now that we can have one group working on features and one group working on fixes. Once 3.0 is out, the pressure for features is off, and the pressure for fixes is on.

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3 hours ago, Netduma Alex said:

I've replied to you in this thread: 

 

That IS the plan, the reason we've not been so good at bug patching so far is because we've not had the staff. We've got enough people now that we can have one group working on features and one group working on fixes. Once 3.0 is out, the pressure for features is off, and the pressure for fixes is on.

So why couldn't you just patch Milestone 1.3 then, if you have not got enough staff you fix what you have already made surely before starting a new project? Anyway I wish you luck with it and look forward to seeing what's coming.  :)

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23 hours ago, migueltaveras6 said:

Will it fix my bufferbloat? Cause man I'm so close in returning this real quick!

Sorry to say but there's only so much a router can do with the network it's given dude. How have you got your Congestion Control setup? Your net may need to be reduced more than the recommended 70%. Do you have Traffic Prioritising enabled? If so, is your Duma router detecting that you're playing a game and automatically activating Traffic Prioritising whilst playing? 

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18 hours ago, Netduma Alex said:

I've replied to you in this thread: 

 

That IS the plan, the reason we've not been so good at bug patching so far is because we've not had the staff. We've got enough people now that we can have one group working on features and one group working on fixes. Once 3.0 is out, the pressure for features is off, and the pressure for fixes is on.

People need to remember that in terms of a company you're still very new, so you're not going to have 100's/1000's of staff to bug fix etc. TBH I've never dealt with an IT company or any company that consistently replies to forum messages as fast as you Duma lads do. I tip my hat to you! :)

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Netduma Alex

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4 hours ago, SwiftCookie said:

People need to remember that in terms of a company you're still very new, so you're not going to have 100's/1000's of staff to bug fix etc. TBH I've never dealt with an IT company or any company that consistently replies to forum messages as fast as you Duma lads do. I tip my hat to you! :)

Thanks! Fraser and I try very hard to keep the community happy. Sometimes it's hard as we're often limited in what we can say, but if the community speaks we let the devs know. Bug reports and suggestions are not falling on deaf ears.

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crawlgsx

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On 10/3/2019 at 6:11 AM, Netduma Alex said:

I understand your concerns, but from our point of view, many of the bugs that currently exist will cease to be a concern because we're reshaping fundamental elements of the OS. Many of the bugs will end up being fixed simply because of the refinements we're making.

But yeah, in an ideal world we'd have one team working on bugs, and another team working on features. We're expanding our team rapidly so hopefully this can be a reality soon. I'm sorry that you'll have to hold on a few more months for the next update...

I appreciate all your support Alex, but I call BS on this. We have been waiting all year for an update, to be told something big is coming. We finally get an announcement that basically says your starting a new version of DumaOS with no guarantee of when (or even IF in some cases) it is coming. This to me reads another gimmick, the XR1000 or whatever comes next will come with DumaOS 3.0 on it, and we will be stuck waiting in the wind. My support for Netduma and Netgear ends here.  Again I thank you and Frasier for your work and keeping us updated the best you can, I am certainly not blaming you!

Anyone starting a betting pool for "few more months" release? I'll take somewhere in the 6-10 months we get an informational update.

I must admit that in part this is also my Fault. My reason is that this router wasn't my best choice to begin with. I chose it for a reason that is different than your goal. I do not use bufferbloat, QOS, or any of the other features of the XR500. (all turned off). I bought it because I needed a router that supports Full Cone NAT which is sadly hard to find these days. (my wife and I both play console and were having connection issues iwth 2 trying to NAT from the same router). These features aren't what I need or care about, but its your core functionality and your priority. Also I have never cared for Netgear. NetDUMA showed a lot of promise and looked much better so I thought things would be different this go around (and to an extent, they are) but I should have stuck with my instincts :).

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Netduma Alex

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2 hours ago, crawlgsx said:

I appreciate all your support Alex, but I call BS on this. We have been waiting all year for an update, to be told something big is coming. We finally get an announcement that basically says your starting a new version of DumaOS with no guarantee of when (or even IF in some cases) it is coming. This to me reads another gimmick, the XR1000 or whatever comes next will come with DumaOS 3.0 on it, and we will be stuck waiting in the wind. My support for Netduma and Netgear ends here.  Again I thank you and Frasier for your work and keeping us updated the best you can, I am certainly not blaming you!

Anyone starting a betting pool for "few more months" release? I'll take somewhere in the 6-10 months we get an informational update.

I must admit that in part this is also my Fault. My reason is that this router wasn't my best choice to begin with. I chose it for a reason that is different than your goal. I do not use bufferbloat, QOS, or any of the other features of the XR500. (all turned off). I bought it because I needed a router that supports Full Cone NAT which is sadly hard to find these days. (my wife and I both play console and were having connection issues iwth 2 trying to NAT from the same router). These features aren't what I need or care about, but its your core functionality and your priority. Also I have never cared for Netgear. NetDUMA showed a lot of promise and looked much better so I thought things would be different this go around (and to an extent, they are) but I should have stuck with my instincts :).

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it's frustrating to have to wait so long for an update, but I assure you that this upcoming version update is totally real, and totally on track.

Regarding the XR500, why would we want to leave this update off our most popular product? We are planning on releasing this update to every DumaOS router. We can't promise that it will be a simultaneous release, but any delay would only be caused by time constraints. We would not use a delayed release as a marketing ploy. Bear in mind that the XR500 is by far our most popular product so it's going to be a priority for us.

Regarding lack of updates so far, I will say that the vast majority of routers only get bug fixes and security updates. We are bringing a massive update that will add many new features and will represent a huge leap forward for DumaOS, and it will be provided to all existing customers free of charge. How many routers have you had that received an update that overhauled the entire experience and made your router feel like a brand new product all over again? That's what 3.0 is doing to do.

Anyway, i'm sorry that you won't support us any longer, but I hope that you'll take another look at us once 3.0 is released.

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On 10/16/2019 at 12:46 PM, Netduma Alex said:

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it's frustrating to have to wait so long for an update, but I assure you that this upcoming version update is totally real, and totally on track.

Regarding the XR500, why would we want to leave this update off our most popular product? We are planning on releasing this update to every DumaOS router. We can't promise that it will be a simultaneous release, but any delay would only be caused by time constraints. We would not use a delayed release as a marketing ploy. Bear in mind that the XR500 is by far our most popular product so it's going to be a priority for us.

Regarding lack of updates so far, I will say that the vast majority of routers only get bug fixes and security updates. We are bringing a massive update that will add many new features and will represent a huge leap forward for DumaOS, and it will be provided to all existing customers free of charge. How many routers have you had that received an update that overhauled the entire experience and made your router feel like a brand new product all over again? That's what 3.0 is doing to do.

Anyway, i'm sorry that you won't support us any longer, but I hope that you'll take another look at us once 3.0 is released.

I wouldn’t leave it off, I guess perhaps I misunderstood your previous post. I interpreted “why wouldn’t netgear update” as a lack of guarantee they will. 

I will not be selling or getting rid of the XR500 so I most definitely will at minimum check out 3.0 when it arrives. 

I completely agree that big overhauls rarely (possibly never?) come to a router after purchase so that is a valid point, I have no doubt Netduma means well and I hope 3.0 meets those expectations. 
 

thanks again for your work and communications. 

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Netduma Fraser

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42 minutes ago, Nunzio said:

Will there be anti jitter anti spike feature on the 3.0 update?

We're not going to give away any details outside the previews we show Insiders and in announcements but you'll be very pleased with what we have in store for 3.0!

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