Port forwarding theory

[l2eactionz]

Okay bit of a controversial one on opening ports using upnp dmz. Anything to do with ports being opened for gaming.

So I've been having theories and doing tests on my router using all methods to open ports. And I can honestly say having a moderate nat with no ports opened for playing warzone feels like I'm on a slightly more level playing field.

I can only come up with 2 reasons. 

Reason 1. When you open your ports all you are doing is letting data TO YOU quicker and not have to go through some sort of firewall (not sure if that's how it works but....) by doing that you are allowing everyone else's data TO YOU register and get delt with quicker. While on there end your data is having to pass through there moderate nat (firewall) before registering. This to me is basically saying by opening up my ports I'm allowing everyone who shoots at me to hit me and connect to me perfectly and get good hit registration while my info gets stopped and questioned by there firewall and inevitably lose the gun fight.

Reason 2. New theory based on the sbmm. By having a moderate nat you are limiting who you can connect to making the lobbies either easier or better ping. This is just a theory and I'm not 100% sure.

So with that said whoever reads this. Try port forwarding or dmz play some games and see how quick you die. Then disable port forwarding upnp and dmz and play some moderate nat games.... come back and let me know what you find.

For me I have given up with trying to make my connection as good as I can. I feel like the better I make mine the worse ingame experience. I don't know if lag compensation is a real thing but I'm starting to think it is. Because everyone who kills me that I spectate either has constant packet bursting going on (by the way little info for everyone I've figured out don't judge your packet burst when spectating that is genuinely there packet bursts you are seeing) or watching them thinking how the hell did I die to him. 

Is there any conclusive evidence or tech knowledge that says I'm wrong and I should open ports? Or could I be right with reason 1 to some extent?

[Netduma Liam]

Thanks for posting, I like your approach to this!

It's a good idea, but NAT doesn't quite work that way. Whether your NAT type is open, moderate or closed/strict, inbound traffic will always stop at the router where it will either work out where to send it or if it's just going to be dropped.

That being said, we have heard occasional reports that people are having a better experience playing on moderate NAT, whether that's coincidental or not I'm not sure.

Your second reason is correct in that a moderate NAT is limiting your options, but that won't have any affect on the skill level of your opponents.

Loving the thought you put into it though, great idea!

[Lolitahell]

38 minutes ago, Netduma Liam said:

Thanks for posting, I like your approach to this!

It's a good idea, but NAT doesn't quite work that way. Whether your NAT type is open, moderate or closed/strict, inbound traffic will always stop at the router where it will either work out where to send it or if it's just going to be dropped.

That being said, we have heard occasional reports that people are having a better experience playing on moderate NAT, whether that's coincidental or not I'm not sure.

Your second reason is correct in that a moderate NAT is limiting your options, but that won't have any affect on the skill level of your opponents.

Loving the thought you put into it though, great idea!

How do you get moderate NAT tho ? is there a way to force this ?

[Netduma Fraser]

There is no specific way to force this because it doesn't make sense to restrict connections in that way. The only way I could think of doing this would be disable any settings you've enabled to open NAT - doing that could make the NAT strict instead of moderate.

[Lolitahell]

26 minutes ago, Netduma Fraser said:

There is no specific way to force this because it doesn't make sense to restrict connections in that way. The only way I could think of doing this would be disable any settings you've enabled to open NAT - doing that could make the NAT strict instead of moderate.

I am either Open or Strict when i use Geo . Seems to make it randomly tho.

[BL4CK OPS V3TRN]

Uncheck DMZ uncheck UPNP make sure you have no port forwarding set up  and you are  guaranteed a strict or moderate NAT ... at least on Xbox i

[Lolitahell]

1 minute ago, BL4CK OPS V3TRN said:

Uncheck DMZ uncheck UPNP make sure you have no port forwarding set up  and you are  guaranteed a strict or moderate NAT ... at least on Xbox i

I will look into it. Thank you

[l2eactionz]

Yeah certain ISP's I think run differently when it comes to restrictions on sky I'm moderate with everything disabled when I was on virgin it was strict.

[l2eactionz]

So I don't create loads of posts....

I also had another thought as to whether or not qos makes a difference in general when only 2 people are on the Internet at a given time. Like qos and prioritising ports will that have an effect or will it only work to the router and then still be traffic controlled by my isp? I'm currently using a cheap tp link until my r2 comes that has bandwidth control and does seem to show better stats on dslreports for the bufferbloat but then it's hardly noticeable in game as my line isn't being heavily used. 

Now the mtu dilemma as obviously mentioned in hundreds of posts you should just keep your mtu as is which for most is 1500.... on xbox you are capped at 1480. So when I play on ps and my other half is on xbox who actually has the advantage when gaming against other people. I would think that by running into xbox players while on ps me transferring 1500mtu when they can only 1480mtu this would cause fragmentation and create problems? Or wouldn't it? And in that case would it be better to lower the mtu to 1480 to match xbox players?

[Netduma Fraser]

MTU doesn't really work like that, use what is default for your connection is what I would recommend. QoS can still be useful for households like yours as devices can do background updates which could have a severe impact in game.

[l2eactionz]

Okay thanks for taking the time to reply I guess in some situations it comes down to preference and/or coincidentally plays better with moderate nat and other things should be left as is lol

[Ozymandias_]

5 hours ago, Lolitahell said:

How do you get moderate NAT tho ? is there a way to force this ?

For me getting moderate NAT is as simple as disabling UPnP and any Port Forwarding rules. If your console is online and connected at the time you will likely need to reboot it or refresh the network connection somehow as in my experience it doesn't seem that disabling UPnP from the console kills the active connections. Of course you will need to also close the game as well and re-initialize the connection to CoD servers to get NAT status to update. 

 

Also - you can get moderate NAT type by connecting to a VPN using the Hybrid VPN config and adding your console. 

 

I will echo what @l2eactionz says about moderate NAT type feeling a bit better in terms of "fairness" and what others have said here and on other threads about the better I make my connection / lower my ping the worse my experience is. I understand this is the exact opposite of what the Duma hopes to accomplish but the reality is gameplay just does not seem to be better this way. 

[l2eactionz]

16 hours ago, Ozymandias_ said:

For me getting moderate NAT is as simple as disabling UPnP and any Port Forwarding rules. If your console is online and connected at the time you will likely need to reboot it or refresh the network connection somehow as in my experience it doesn't seem that disabling UPnP from the console kills the active connections. Of course you will need to also close the game as well and re-initialize the connection to CoD servers to get NAT status to update. 

 

Also - you can get moderate NAT type by connecting to a VPN using the Hybrid VPN config and adding your console. 

 

I will echo what @l2eactionz says about moderate NAT type feeling a bit better in terms of "fairness" and what others have said here and on other threads about the better I make my connection / lower my ping the worse my experience is. I understand this is the exact opposite of what the Duma hopes to accomplish but the reality is gameplay just does not seem to be better this way. 

So glad it's not just me. Sometimes when you are trying to figure out what works better you can end up switching to and throw with settings. It always comes back to your thought process telling you "no, ports should be open because thats what everyone says and having an open nat is the way" hell the Activision website tells you to open your ports so that's got to be the way........ but clearly sometimes its not and again could it be lag compensation playing a role as nothing else makes logical sense as to why making your connection as good as can be results in you feelings a second behind everyone else

[Infoseye]

On 1/20/2021 at 1:02 PM, l2eactionz said:

Okay bit of a controversial one on opening ports using upnp dmz. Anything to do with ports being opened for gaming.

So I've been having theories and doing tests on my router using all methods to open ports. And I can honestly say having a moderate nat with no ports opened for playing warzone feels like I'm on a slightly more level playing field.

I can only come up with 2 reasons. 

Reason 1. When you open your ports all you are doing is letting data TO YOU quicker and not have to go through some sort of firewall (not sure if that's how it works but....) by doing that you are allowing everyone else's data TO YOU register and get delt with quicker. While on there end your data is having to pass through there moderate nat (firewall) before registering. This to me is basically saying by opening up my ports I'm allowing everyone who shoots at me to hit me and connect to me perfectly and get good hit registration while my info gets stopped and questioned by there firewall and inevitably lose the gun fight.

Reason 2. New theory based on the sbmm. By having a moderate nat you are limiting who you can connect to making the lobbies either easier or better ping. This is just a theory and I'm not 100% sure.

So with that said whoever reads this. Try port forwarding or dmz play some games and see how quick you die. Then disable port forwarding upnp and dmz and play some moderate nat games.... come back and let me know what you find.

For me I have given up with trying to make my connection as good as I can. I feel like the better I make mine the worse ingame experience. I don't know if lag compensation is a real thing but I'm starting to think it is. Because everyone who kills me that I spectate either has constant packet bursting going on (by the way little info for everyone I've figured out don't judge your packet burst when spectating that is genuinely there packet bursts you are seeing) or watching them thinking how the hell did I die to him. 

Is there any conclusive evidence or tech knowledge that says I'm wrong and I should open ports? Or could I be right with reason 1 to some extent?

Well been playing on Open Nat type for years on all cods, its not a guarantee to have a perfect game. I have had good games also my fare share of laggy lobbies depending on the host to very bad game. But I can say 70% of the time I have a good game but when it comes to MW 2019 its a different matter.

Where do I start? The game is broken! Too many bugs not fixed for instance, I have noticed certain operators/skins my bullets dont register on them. At worst I get hit markers on them. Call me crazy but also my mates I play with regularly confirmed it too. I noticed Rose skin is one, the other operator with a gold mask is another I cant remember the operator name but any time I come across them its a 50/50 chance I win the gun fight even if I land my first few shots. I break there body armor and I get knocked down, no am not lagging or missing my shots.

Another thing is the weapon balancing is a joke on mw warzone, a weapon that works fine today suddenly stop working. Worst part is they keep making meta weapons to powerful that other guns in that category or other class render them useless! Not to talk of paid to win guns that no one stands a chance against.

On top all these mess devs of the game are yet to fix, now throw in SBMM in the mix which favors low skilled players against higher skilled players. Which I understand I understand to give players an even playing field, this does not work has it should.

 I don't understand why if I come across a low skilled player in my lobby they give them the upper hand making me loose the gun fight by default, it doesn't make sense. I look up there names check their stats, this players are nothing to right home about compared to my stats they shouldn't be in my lobby in the first place if SBMM actually works. So yes no matter the tweaks done on gaming router it would not permanently fix the problems you face on MW'19.

Oh almost forgot, hackers/cheaters on warzone. I dont need to say much about this, there are tons of videos out there exposing hackers on warzone on what they do to win. I mean the integrity of the game itself is rotten to the core, dev's are doing nothing about it. Is it even worth the hassle of finding settings that works for you then SBMM or a hacker destroys you? After experiencing all that I have mentioned, these days I just play to while away time not to win.

This is just my personal observation, what I have experienced. I have had issues with this game since season 1, but I'm willing to switch to Moderate NAT Type and share my findings.

[Sable]

If your playing Cold War, play on moderate and on WiFi, thank me later.

[1conito]

for me moderate nat is better, less lag, better hitreg, but nothing spectacular, i'm still getting instakilled so often, i tried using wifi , but it doesn't  make any difference for me maybe because the wifi router is too close with a good signal, i don't know i've to try out 

opening the nat is just a horrible experience , not only with COD, i think it comes along with the nature of the equipment that the isp has, or maybe a too strong firewall, that add extra latency to packets that make you completely desync'ed from game servers

i've also experimented a strict nat with 4G, it's a bit better but again not a game changer

i've found an interresting article with a simplified explanation of the differencies of the differents nat types

https://serverfault.com/questions/208522/what-is-strict-moderate-and-open-nat

[Zippy]

I also noticed that a Moderate NAT type does tend to give better results.. Even though this doesnt make much sense having a Moderate NAT but it comes down to what works for each person.. So there really is no wrong or correct answer.. Go with what works.

Ones MTU on the other hand I find as a very interesting beast.. Normally one would just leave our current setting.. Which in most cases is 1500 for most people.. But with that said rarely do any servers run at a full 1500 MTU value.. There always lower.. Google, Facebook, Cloudflare, MS, ect. all run at values bellow 1500 MTU value.. So what does this mean.. Path MTU Discovery is what sets the MTU value when we connect to a server..Even a game server.. Both IPV4 use this and IPV6 use this..  PMTUD sends a message of packet to big try this instead to set the MTU.. But from my readings is Path MTU Discovery is not really that reliable.. Specially now when we have IPV6 in the mix.. 

Regardless even if you have IPV6 disabled on your home network chances are if you connect to a server like Google or MS or a big data center your likely going through some sort of tunneling which having the correct MTU value is even more important.. 

Just to be clear im not saying for anyone to go and start changing there MTU value.. If things are working well for you Id leave well enough alone! The only reason I mentioned the above is theres alot of factors to take into consideration when things arent right.. And im only really touching on a few of them..

Zippy.

[l2eactionz]

After posting I did go back and test some more just to be on the safe side and honestly for me the difference is tremendous like my game is unplayable when open hit detection is bad and I die instantly. I have another theory as to why it could be. When you look at the way open moderate and strict can connect you see open can connect to all, moderate can do moderate and open. and strict to open.

So by having an open nat wouldn't that be increasing your chance to lobby up with people on strict nat types and that's why it feels like the hit reg is off. I know we are connecting to servers so I don't know if it works that way but again surely having a strict nat and trying to kill that person will slow down the process or even kick out packets of data you send to them making it feel like bad hit reg. 

For the chance and for that one reason I think this is why we are having a better experience on moderate. I'd probably also say most upnps are not working correctly to open up the ports I've seen loads of people on moderate and its not because they set it like that but its more because thats how the router came and they are not tech savvy to open the nat. Also if they have 2 consoles xbox takes 3074 and then there ps4/5 can't get that for warzone server and stuck on moderate as port 3074 is taken.

As for mtu I'm still playing around with this, there's so much info out there to say no just leave it as it is it won't make a difference. But surely it does surely if I'm on 1500mtu and an xbox player is capped to 1480 fragmentation needs to happen in order for my packets to be processed and received? Whether that's on the peers end or the servers end as zippy says if servers are not running at 1500mtu but I'm sending packets of 1500 the server would also have to fragment packets or simply kick them out and that's where my bullets are going?

I can say that changing my mtu from router and manually setting it up on the playstation seems to be worse. I'm using 1472 as most that aren't on 1500 would be on 1472 going by the 28mtu header thing.

Keeping my router on 1500 and dropping my ps5 to 1472 seems to work better like the xbox being capped at 1480mtu there must be reason to that or for that and that tells me everyone is playing on different mtu values. Making it really hard to fully test and come up with a perfect this or that works but I will say 1472 has me going into gun fights sometimes feeling like I'm the sponge and he's a magnet to my bullets it feels great. (So many times I've gone to the gulag hit a guy with my shotgun chest to head and get a hit marker then he shoots back one shot to my kneecaps and takes me out). I had this in reverse yesterday playing on 1472mtu its not conclusive and it is testing but from now on my nat stays moderate p.s. I tried to force strict on my router by opening ports to a random ip that wasn't my ps so the ports where in use but it didn't work lol if you can force strict it would be interesting to see the outcome let me know. Sorry its a long one lol

[l2eactionz]

7 hours ago, Sable said:

If your playing Cold War, play on moderate and on WiFi, thank me later.

This is so true I tried for a week to get a fair game went to wireless and it was more fair. I honestly wish they would get rid of lag compensation. I xan do everything on my end to get a good connection and then I load into a game and get destroyed by everyone. Turn everything off that's ment to make your connection better and what do you know its now more fair lol

[Zippy]

On 1/26/2021 at 3:31 AM, l2eactionz said:

After posting I did go back and test some more just to be on the safe side and honestly for me the difference is tremendous like my game is unplayable when open hit detection is bad and I die instantly. I have another theory as to why it could be. When you look at the way open moderate and strict can connect you see open can connect to all, moderate can do moderate and open. and strict to open.

So by having an open nat wouldn't that be increasing your chance to lobby up with people on strict nat types and that's why it feels like the hit reg is off. I know we are connecting to servers so I don't know if it works that way but again surely having a strict nat and trying to kill that person will slow down the process or even kick out packets of data you send to them making it feel like bad hit reg. 

For the chance and for that one reason I think this is why we are having a better experience on moderate. I'd probably also say most upnps are not working correctly to open up the ports I've seen loads of people on moderate and its not because they set it like that but its more because thats how the router came and they are not tech savvy to open the nat. Also if they have 2 consoles xbox takes 3074 and then there ps4/5 can't get that for warzone server and stuck on moderate as port 3074 is taken.

As for mtu I'm still playing around with this, there's so much info out there to say no just leave it as it is it won't make a difference. But surely it does surely if I'm on 1500mtu and an xbox player is capped to 1480 fragmentation needs to happen in order for my packets to be processed and received? Whether that's on the peers end or the servers end as zippy says if servers are not running at 1500mtu but I'm sending packets of 1500 the server would also have to fragment packets or simply kick them out and that's where my bullets are going?

I can say that changing my mtu from router and manually setting it up on the playstation seems to be worse. I'm using 1472 as most that aren't on 1500 would be on 1472 going by the 28mtu header thing.

Keeping my router on 1500 and dropping my ps5 to 1472 seems to work better like the xbox being capped at 1480mtu there must be reason to that or for that and that tells me everyone is playing on different mtu values. Making it really hard to fully test and come up with a perfect this or that works but I will say 1472 has me going into gun fights sometimes feeling like I'm the sponge and he's a magnet to my bullets it feels great. (So many times I've gone to the gulag hit a guy with my shotgun chest to head and get a hit marker then he shoots back one shot to my kneecaps and takes me out). I had this in reverse yesterday playing on 1472mtu its not conclusive and it is testing but from now on my nat stays moderate p.s. I tried to force strict on my router by opening ports to a random ip that wasn't my ps so the ports where in use but it didn't work lol if you can force strict it would be interesting to see the outcome let me know. Sorry its a long one lol

Hey I was going to ask you if you are using IPV6 at all? Or are you using strictly IPV4?  Makes me wonder if having a Moderate NAT helps to keep the flow of traffic in both directions more even?  One thing I found strange about having an Open NAT with an Xbox is port 3074 is Opened on outbound only.. It never does mention of an inbound port being Open.. A while back I notice Xbox added another test into there network settings and I believe its for remote play...Have you noticed this test?  Even though it stated everything was good when performing that test it only mentioned my outbound port being Open.. One would think there should be an inbound port as well?  Anyways just wanted to share that.. Wasnt sure if you ever noticed that or not.. 

Thanks!

Zippy.

[l2eactionz]

11 hours ago, Zippy said:

Hey I was going to ask you if you are using IPV6 at all? Or are you using strictly IPV4?  Makes me wonder if having a Moderate NAT helps to keep the flow of traffic in both directions more even?  One thing I found strange about having an Open NAT with an Xbox is port 3074 is Opened on outbound only.. It never does mention of an inbound port being Open.. A while back I notice Xbox added another test into there network settings and I believe its for remote play...Have you noticed this test?  Even though it stated everything was good when performing that test it only mentioned my outbound port being Open.. One would think there should be an inbound port as well?  Anyways just wanted to share that.. Wasnt sure if you ever noticed that or not.. 

Thanks!

Zippy.

I have tried ipv6 on my sky vdsl line and I can honestly say turning it off is better. I did see something on the sky forum a guy mentioned turning ipv6 off helped his gaming and bufferbloat and after trying it I agree. So I don't use ipv6 any more. As for inbound and outbound my sky firewall shows all outbound is open and inbound is blocked the port opens 3074 on xbox isn't that for inbound? Or am I confusing myself lol

[Zippy]

11 hours ago, l2eactionz said:

I have tried ipv6 on my sky vdsl line and I can honestly say turning it off is better. I did see something on the sky forum a guy mentioned turning ipv6 off helped his gaming and bufferbloat and after trying it I agree. So I don't use ipv6 any more. As for inbound and outbound my sky firewall shows all outbound is open and inbound is blocked the port opens 3074 on xbox isn't that for inbound? Or am I confusing myself lol

Did you happen to know or remember when you had IPV6 enabled did you have upnp on or have any port forwarding rules active while using IPV6?

I would think that is what it means yes! I just found it a bit confusing that in the new network test for remote play on my xbox that it said my outbound port was open.. Which is 3074.  It was just funny it mentions outbound but doesnt mention inbound with it.. Not sure exactly what it means by that test on my xbox.. I would have just thought it would state your xbox port is Open.. And not mention inbound or outbound.. To me when I seen that test I was like what about inbound.. Idk really what that means.. Could be nothing.. But yet strange..

Zippy.

 

[l2eactionz]

10 hours ago, Zippy said:

Did you happen to know or remember when you had IPV6 enabled did you have upnp on or have any port forwarding rules active while using IPV6?

I would think that is what it means yes! I just found it a bit confusing that in the new network test for remote play on my xbox that it said my outbound port was open.. Which is 3074.  It was just funny it mentions outbound but doesnt mention inbound with it.. Not sure exactly what it means by that test on my xbox.. I would have just thought it would state your xbox port is Open.. And not mention inbound or outbound.. To me when I seen that test I was like what about inbound.. Idk really what that means.. Could be nothing.. But yet strange..

Zippy.

 

I still have ipv6 but its off and upnp is also off both I find make things worse

[m3gtr8]

On 1/20/2021 at 1:02 PM, l2eactionz said:

Okay bit of a controversial one on opening ports using upnp dmz. Anything to do with ports being opened for gaming.

So I've been having theories and doing tests on my router using all methods to open ports. And I can honestly say having a moderate nat with no ports opened for playing warzone feels like I'm on a slightly more level playing field.

I can only come up with 2 reasons. 

Reason 1. When you open your ports all you are doing is letting data TO YOU quicker and not have to go through some sort of firewall (not sure if that's how it works but....) by doing that you are allowing everyone else's data TO YOU register and get delt with quicker. While on there end your data is having to pass through there moderate nat (firewall) before registering. This to me is basically saying by opening up my ports I'm allowing everyone who shoots at me to hit me and connect to me perfectly and get good hit registration while my info gets stopped and questioned by there firewall and inevitably lose the gun fight.

Reason 2. New theory based on the sbmm. By having a moderate nat you are limiting who you can connect to making the lobbies either easier or better ping. This is just a theory and I'm not 100% sure.

So with that said whoever reads this. Try port forwarding or dmz play some games and see how quick you die. Then disable port forwarding upnp and dmz and play some moderate nat games.... come back and let me know what you find.

For me I have given up with trying to make my connection as good as I can. I feel like the better I make mine the worse ingame experience. I don't know if lag compensation is a real thing but I'm starting to think it is. Because everyone who kills me that I spectate either has constant packet bursting going on (by the way little info for everyone I've figured out don't judge your packet burst when spectating that is genuinely there packet bursts you are seeing) or watching them thinking how the hell did I die to him. 

Is there any conclusive evidence or tech knowledge that says I'm wrong and I should open ports? Or could I be right with reason 1 to some extent?

Exactly the same thing with me. I had a DSL connection with 10mb download and 1mb upload and a ping of 30ms and I used to be on top of the lobby with a KD of 3.
Ever since I switched to a 1gb optic fiber with a ping of 1ms, it feels like i'm playing hardcore. instant deaths, ghost bullets, and playing 2 seconds behind everyone else. 

I even see my teammates shooting at a target before i get to see him. thought i was going nuts. 

[l2eactionz]

19 hours ago, m3gtr8 said:

Exactly the same thing with me. I had a DSL connection with 10mb download and 1mb upload and a ping of 30ms and I used to be on top of the lobby with a KD of 3.
Ever since I switched to a 1gb optic fiber with a ping of 1ms, it feels like i'm playing hardcore. instant deaths, ghost bullets, and playing 2 seconds behind everyone else. 

I even see my teammates shooting at a target before i get to see him. thought i was going nuts. 

I have fixed my issue on warsone by simply capping my speed to 1.5mb up and down. Honestly feels so much better lol give it a try