Lag vs Lag Compensation

[local_celebrity]

Long-time COD player based in the UK. Been using Netduma routers a few years now.

Having researched this topic for as long as I can remember, there seem to be conflicting schools of thought about what causes a ‘bad connection’.

For some, it’s lag; for others, it’s lag compensation.

For the lag camp, the solution is to get the lowest ping possible (“Ping is king”).

For believers in lag compensation, the remedy is to throttle your bandwidth (to something like 3mb download, 0.5mb upload). 

However, it strikes me there are problems with both approaches.

If the main issue was simply lag, you would naturally expect amazing games on a low ping. But that hasn’t been borne out by my experience at all. I generally stay off the lowest ping servers that are closest to me – even the one on my doorstep in London – because they’re such a nightmare.

On the face of it, this would bolster the case for the ‘lag compensation’ camp, but their solution doesn’t make sense to me either. 

If the problem was indeed lag compensation, what benefit is served by throttling your BANDWIDTH? Cod hardly uses any bandwidth at all. Surely the thing you’d be trying to slow down is your PING – the speed of your connection – to the server? And besides, do we have any evidence of COD doing bandwidth tests on your connection? I certainly haven’t noticed any bandwidth spikes when logging in.

What’s going on here? Are the UK servers jittery or something? And how would tinkering with your bandwidth affect lag compensation?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated  

  

[Netduma Fraser]

I don't subscribe to the throttling idea either, my opinion is generally the closest servers to you will provide the best experience - if they are under heavy load then they may not be optimal - especially during times like these, if that happens then I recommend to force servers slightly further away - your ping will be slightly higher but the server may be more stable.

[Chaiyoabc]

Always have bandwidth throttled to 2.72 both dl ul. Average kd at 3.13 

go to my gf without netduma, always get 1.8-2.2 kd averagely

[N3CR0]

19 minutes ago, Netduma Fraser said:

I don't subscribe to the throttling idea either, my opinion is generally the closest servers to you will provide the best experience - if they are under heavy load then they may not be optimal - especially during times like these, if that happens then I recommend to force servers slightly further away - your ping will be slightly higher but the server may be more stable.

I've never been able to play any CoD game without throttling. Even when I'm the only one online in my house, its unplayable without.

All I get is other players sponging without throttling. I have a clean line with a low ping also. When I throttle, the gunfights are far more fair.

[local_celebrity]

1 hour ago, Netduma Fraser said:

I don't subscribe to the throttling idea either, my opinion is generally the closest servers to you will provide the best experience - if they are under heavy load then they may not be optimal - especially during times like these, if that happens then I recommend to force servers slightly further away - your ping will be slightly higher but the server may be more stable.

Thanks, Frasier. Maybe this is why some of the UK people here are using the dedicated servers in Spain and Italy. Less congested and jittery.

[local_celebrity]

50 minutes ago, Chaiyoabc said:

Always have bandwidth throttled to 2.72 both dl ul. Average kd at 3.13 

go to my gf without netduma, always get 1.8-2.2 kd averagely

 

50 minutes ago, N3CR0 said:

I've never been able to play any CoD game without throttling. Even when I'm the only one online in my house, its unplayable without.

All I get is other players sponging without throttling. I have a clean line with a low ping also. When I throttle, the gunfights are far more fair.

Not gonna lie, I used to swear by bandwidth throttling. Especially with CODWWII. It just seemed to work.

But there's always that lingering doubt about placebo effect.

Also I can't get my head around WHY it should work. Lag compensation would surely be based around around ping, not bandwidth. Also, I've never detected COD servers doing a bandwidth test when logging in.

Maybe I should try it again and see if it works. Problem with Modern Warfare is that the TTK is so low, it's become harder to tell whether you're on a bad connection or not! 

 

[Chaiyoabc]

34 minutes ago, local_celebrity said:

 

Not gonna lie, I used to swear by bandwidth throttling. Especially with CODWWII. It just seemed to work.

But there's always that lingering doubt about placebo effect.

Also I can't get my head around WHY it should work. Lag compensation would surely be based around around ping, not bandwidth. Also, I've never detected COD servers doing a bandwidth test when logging in.

Maybe I should try it again and see if it works. Problem with Modern Warfare is that the TTK is so low, it's become harder to tell whether you're on a bad connection or not! 

 

Been playing cod since mw 

back then I hadn’t aware about bandwidth throttling. But there wasn’t local server in my area so my lowest ping was about 130+ back then. 
first cod that came with local server was bo3. I still hadnt discovered about bandwidth throttling. Had been playing with pure skill of mine. I had been back and forth between great and bad games. My kd was 2.3 back then

 

in ww2 I bought netduma and started to discover about bandwidth throttling. I throttle my bandwidth to about 50% both download and upload. It was better. I ended up getting 2.67 kd before new cod out

 

in bo4 and mw i throttleD bw further to about 4mb and 1mb  to make sure it is as low as possible. Now i always have great games. Gunfights are far more consistent my kd in bo4 is 3.71 and in mw is 3.13. I only lose gunfight to some situation. For example, bad aim, get ganged up, or get shot at my back. 
 

i know some of you might think it is placebo. And I don’t have prove for that. But gotta say it ‘feel’ much better for me really. I don't get insta melt even when enemy camp and see me, they usually stunt for about split second before shooting. But if i don't have bandwidth throttled, i would have died instantly  

edit: only downside for having too low bw will give you slight delay in bullet hit detection. 

[local_celebrity]

1 hour ago, Chaiyoabc said:

in bo4 and mw i throttleD bw further to about 4mb and 1mb  to make sure it is as low as possible. Now i always have great games. Gunfights are far more consistent my kd in bo4 is 3.71 and in mw is 3.13.

Those are pretty insane K/Ds. Especially in the era of strict SBMM in Modern Warfare.

[blackfirehawk]

Trottling dosnt make a difference for me.. i tried from a few kb/s to max anything..

It Just dosnt Work for me

At the Moment i Test some Windows registry settings for routing/MTU quality discovery and get some good Results and a improvement.. but for real the Servers are Shit.. its Just the Game 

[Chaiyoabc]

10 hours ago, local_celebrity said:

Those are pretty insane K/Ds. Especially in the era of strict SBMM in Modern Warfare.

Sbmm is one thing but if u live in less populated area like in southeast asia whete majority of ppl are on mobile gaming and pc gaming, this is what makes sbmm less strict. Also use geo filter to tweak a bit to make sure it search in specific radius area. Less people = weaker sbmm

[sncjez]

Only time throttling worked for me was avoiding being made host playing mw3 😎

[local_celebrity]

9 minutes ago, sncjez said:

Only time throttling worked for me was avoiding being made host playing mw3 😎

Ah yes, the bad old days of host disadvantage. Started with MWII iirc. Remember people downloading films and stuff to use up their bandwidth, so they wouldn't get selected as host.

[SolidOny]

On 5/2/2020 at 2:11 PM, N3CR0 said:

throttling

Excuse me, what do you refer with this? I have my PS4 at 60down 6upload. Does this mean lowering it on Qos will improve performance, in-game? (Hit registration)

[N3CR0]

3 hours ago, SolidOny said:

Excuse me, what do you refer with this? I have my PS4 at 60down 6upload. Does this mean lowering it on Qos will improve performance, in-game? (Hit registration)

Yes.

[SolidOny]

10 hours ago, N3CR0 said:

Yes.

What do I need to put my PS4? Down and Up? Share excess on or off  ? 

[N3CR0]

10 minutes ago, SolidOny said:

What do I need to put my PS4? Down and Up? Share excess on or off  ? 

I don't use a Netduma router. As for what values you need to put, everyones connection is different. You have to experiment and find out what works for you.

[SolidOny]

1 hour ago, N3CR0 said:

I don't use a Netduma router. As for what values you need to put, everyones connection is different. You have to experiment and find out what works for you.

As i come to understand gaming uses very little bandwith on console, But i have a lot on the QOS with my ps4, Throthilng it might help but i dont know which speeds are necesarry, It might help if someone tells me the range possible

[N3CR0]

1 hour ago, SolidOny said:

As i come to understand gaming uses very little bandwith on console, But i have a lot on the QOS with my ps4, Throthilng it might help but i dont know which speeds are necesarry, It might help if someone tells me the range possible

Try 70% of your speeds and go down from there.

[RobReapz]

9 hours ago, SolidOny said:

As i come to understand gaming uses very little bandwith on console, But i have a lot on the QOS with my ps4, Throthilng it might help but i dont know which speeds are necesarry, It might help if someone tells me the range possible

Download range between 0.4mb - 15mb. Upload range between 0.2mb - 2mb

Have fun searching for the winning combination.

[SolidOny]

33 minutes ago, RobReapz said:

Download range between 0.4mb - 15mb. Upload range between 0.2mb - 2mb

Have fun searching for the winning combination.

rn on it. 

[Knomax]

If anyone interested i have my Openwrt router to auto adjust SQM  settings every 40 minutes and take 95% of download and upload speeds and set them in SQM...so every time i have best possible settings for bufferbloat.

[SolidOny]

1 hour ago, Knomax said:

If anyone interested i have my Openwrt router to auto adjust SQM  settings every 40 minutes and take 95% of download and upload speeds and set them in SQM...so every time i have best possible settings for bufferbloat.

This is new to me. What’s this? 

[Knomax]

Auto adjust settings in SQM....it closes SQM..then it makes a speedtest .... then it takes 95% of download and upload speeds and apply them in SQM.

And it runs every 40 minutes (my settings)....so every time you have best settings in SQM.

[SolidOny]

2 minutes ago, Knomax said:

Auto adjust settings in SQM....it closes SQM..then it makes a speedtest .... then it takes 95% of download and upload speeds and apply them in SQM.

And it runs every 40 minutes (my settings)....so every time you have best settings in SQM.

Sorry but what’s SQM?

[Knomax]

SQM    To "fix" bufferbloat.