IPv6 - Current and future support level?

[kssxs]

My ISP supports IPv6, and I would like to start using it in my network.  The benefits of a no-NAT configuration are, I believe, self-explanatory.

 

Just a quick few questions with regards to IPv6 support on the R1:

1) What is its current state with regards to usage?  Can I enable it and expect to use v6 on my network successfully in a dual-stack configuration the same as a lot of other third-party routers out there?

2) The current implementation on the R1 seems to be very basic.  We can't see any v6 addresses that are assigned (DHCP or otherwise) to the R1, and can't see nor modify any relevant info on its status or LAN details.  Is this going to be improved over time and is there a timeline for it?  I realize you're busy with bug fixes and newer betas, etc, but this IS 2018 and the R1 needs to be future-proof to some degree, so this is a big area for improvement.

3) If nothing else right now, can we at least get support for console IPv6 support so that we can benefit from the no-NAT nature of v6 for our Xboxes?

 

Thanks for reading!

[Netduma Fraser]

1. You can enable it yes and would have basic functionality but you may encounter issues with QoS or with it not applying properly to your Xbox for example
2. The devs may correct me on this but it is definitely in the pipeline to optimise and expand IPv6 support though I don't think it's on the immediate horizon.
3. I'm not a dev but I think it would be harder to just implement that for one device rather than the whole system

[BIG__DOG]

IPV6 can be used on the XR700 (not tested it on the XR500 yet as I am using that as an AP) and I have used it as per my isp's setup requirements. That is probably due to there being Netgear software intertwined with dumaOS

 

As there is no significant improvement to a gaming experience and also the fact that IPV6 balls up the QOS I disabled it.

 

[kssxs]

10 hours ago, BIG__DOG said:

IPV6 can be used on the XR700 (not tested it on the XR500 yet as I am using that as an AP) and I have used it as per my isp's setup requirements. That is probably due to there being Netgear software intertwined with dumaOS

 

As there is no significant improvement to a gaming experience and also the fact that IPV6 balls up the QOS I disabled it.

 

With all of the recent issues with BO4, and Moderate NAT (and of course previous and future games as well), IPv6 is an easy answer and seeing as how it's the future of the Internet, I think it's better to get on that train ASAP rather than waiting any longer.  We're far too behind on general implementation as it is.  A lot of ISP's and now most third-party routers support it as well by default.

 

As for QoS and Bufferbloat.. I'm hoping Netduma engineers figure this out eventually.  For now, I've got a 300 Mbit up and down fiber setup, so I don't have congestion issues regardless.  My only issues are NAT related, and IPv6 solves those.

 

Hence the wanting of those features sooner rather than later .

[Netduma Admin]

Ok, thanks for the feedback. I'll move this to the ideas subforum as we track all feedback etc there.

[kssxs]

Hey guys,

 

Any updates on this request?

 

Through some recent testing, I've found out that the R1 eventually drops the IPv6 routes, and it causes all v6 functionality to stop throughout the network.  I know this is the case because if I connect my PC directly to the ISP modem/router, the routes, and functionality, continue to work just fine.  All of my devices behind the Netduma stop functioning on v6 after about 90 minutes, which is the time at which stale routes are dropped (5400 seconds).  On the PC that is directly connected, the routes are not dropped, and v6 is working as expected.

 

Can I get an update, please?  As I stated above, I think all of the NAT issues that people experience will be resolved for those that are on v6 capable ISP's and networks, and so in my opinion, this should be of a higher priority rather than an afterthought.  Of course, I wouldn't want to sacrifice all of the fantastic feature-set that the R1 brings to the table, but I do think this is important enough to bring up again (not trying to give you guys a way to slip out adding this sooner, mind  ).  Hopefully you can figure out how to add the v6 support while maintaining the feature set, or at least, give us a toggle-able option to pick either v6 support, or v4-level functionality.

 

Thank's again!

[Netduma Fraser]

Theres no update on IPv6 functionality at the moment. We're still advising people have it disabled for the best experience as it's not fully supported. We'll update people when we can

[kssxs]

Thanks for the info, Fraser.  Would it be possible to at least get the route being dropped issue fixed in the interim?  As it stands, if I want constant basic v6 functioniality in my network, I can't use the R1, as it drops the routes after 90 minutes, requiring a reboot to get them back (that's not doable).  I really don't want to use my ISP's modem/router...

 

Please and thanks for any more info you can provide!

 

PS: Also, would it be possible to see this 'Ideas Sub-Forum' as Netduma Admin mentioned?

[Netduma Fraser]

Unlikely I'm afraid, the team have specific things they're working on so changing course at this stage isn't really an option and I don't see IPv6 being a high priority at the moment.

Looks like admin has moved it to the subforum already.

 

[Guest Killhippie]

On 2/19/2019 at 7:14 PM, Netduma Fraser said:

Theres no update on IPv6 functionality at the moment. We're still advising people have it disabled for the best experience as it's not fully supported. We'll update people when we can

So just to check, if I want to use my ISPs IPv6 I cant use DumaOS's features even though most ISP's have now shifted over to IPv6?

[Netduma Admin]

3 hours ago, Killhippie said:

So just to check, if I want to use my ISPs IPv6 I cant use DumaOS's features even though most ISP's have now shifted over to IPv6?

Have they? We prioritise fixes / features based on customer feedback. So far this has not been at the top of our list as we've not had a user that is on IPv6 that cannot be move to IPv4.

[Guest Killhippie]

5 hours ago, Netduma Admin said:

Have they? We prioritise fixes / features based on customer feedback. So far this has not been at the top of our list as we've not had a user that is on IPv6 that cannot be move to IPv4.

IDNet has had IPv6 for years. BT now use IPv6 plus quite a few other ISPs so I guess you are a little behind the times? Why would users go back to IPv4 when It’s now not used as much because the address pool ran out. Also it’s not a feature request but a basic router function in 2019, the R7800 used  FQ_CODEL for both IPv4 and IPv6 at launch in 2015 and the XR500 is built off that routers hardware  

 

Reserved IPv4 address blocks in IANA (Internet Assigned Numbers Authority) ran out on February 3, 2011. And the free pool of IPv4 addresses held by APNIC which is RIR in the Asia Pacific region ran out on April 15, 2011”

[Zippy]

 While I don't have the R1 and use the XR500.. If one is going to update the R1 I would make it worth your while by adding a feature to select Native IPV6.. That will be what you will want to have once this IPV6 goes full on.. Last time I checked I believe it was said that about 30%-40% of current internet traffic is IPV6.. They say with in the next year or two IPV6 internet traffic will surpass IPV4 internet traffic.. At that point one will want to make sure they are on board for IPV6.. A lot of your big name data centers are really pushing to get IPV6 full on.. The reason for this is because they wont have to manage both IPV4 and IPV6 at the same time. Its a cost factor and performance factor.. Tunneling protocols weren't meant to be used this long already.. And basically were only be meant for use for a short period of time so ISP's and your large name Data centers could make the transition smoothly..  Ive had full Native IPV6 3 years ago and my ASUS router had the option to select Native IPV6.. Currently the XR500 doesn't even have the feature to select Native IPV6 which is really shocking to me.. The tunneling options are not full IPV6.. I consider the XR500 as a higher end router.. But when I see features not present that where on other routers ive had three years ago it makes me start to wonder..  I wouldn't call this a red alert moment but I also think one should keep the roll out of IPV6 at arms reach.. And not consider it not a thing.. Its always better to be ahead of the game then find yourself behind the eight ball! If my XR500 had Full Native IPV6 option id be using it already..  My guess also is I bet a lot of the DumaOS features like QoS don't work with IPV6 or don't work properly.. Something to check and think about anyway   

Zippy..

[Netduma Fraser]

Thanks Zippy, I'm certain Netgear will be on top of this before it's too late which means we'll also be working with them to get QoS working correctly with IPv6. For the R1 as well our goal is to have the best router software on the planet! 

[Zippy]

2 minutes ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Thanks Zippy, I'm certain Netgear will be on top of this before it's too late which means we'll also be working with them to get QoS working correctly with IPv6. For the R1 as well our goal is to have the best router software on the planet! 

Your welcome Fraser!   And no worries.. Im sure you guys will be on track..  Are you guys at Netduma trying to take over the planet??   Im surprised to see you posting on here.. What time is it where your at?  I figured you would be getting some Zzz's..

Zippy.

[Netduma Fraser]

39 minutes ago, Zippy said:

Your welcome Fraser!   And no worries.. Im sure you guys will be on track..  Are you guys at Netduma trying to take over the planet??   Im surprised to see you posting on here.. What time is it where your at?  I figured you would be getting some Zzz's..

Zippy.

Only the router part of the planet yes! Almost midnight, support is of utmost importance to us, we strive to give the best customer support possible so the only time we don't do support is when we're sleeping!

[Zippy]

5 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Only the router part of the planet yes! Almost midnight, support is of utmost importance to us, we strive to give the best customer support possible so the only time we don't do support is when we're sleeping!

Now that's impressive Fraser! There is one thing I can say is you guys do have some of the best support ive ever seen.. Specially these days where support is almost nonexistence on many things! Be proud of your support!  :) 

[muffintastic]

3 hours ago, Zippy said:

Now that's impressive Fraser! There is one thing I can say is you guys do have some of the best support ive ever seen.. Specially these days where support is almost nonexistence on many things! Be proud of your support! 

Hopefully this will benefit us Sky Fibre customers, I know their methods are backwards as in regards to authentication to getting custom routers are concerned, hopefully Netgear WILL implement the naitive IPV6 option, many other router brands already have this with the exception of Netgear. Can't fault the XR500 - Hopefully upgrade to XR700 in the future.

[Guest Killhippie]

From what I understood the Netgear side already does IPv6 (for BT etc) its just that the DumaOS QoS is incompatible, or are you saying the NTGR side does not work either? I know NTGR still filter ICMP on IPv6 which is a pain, though but they claim its for security and will never budge. on that.

[muffintastic]

6 hours ago, Killhippie said:

From what I understood the Netgear side already does IPv6 (for BT etc) its just that the DumaOS QoS is incompatible, or are you saying the NTGR side does not work either? I know NTGR still filter ICMP on IPv6 which is a pain, though but they claim its for security and will never budge. on that.

The issue is Netgear haven't added an option to their IPv6 which allows customers whom are on Sky or any other provider to get an IPv6 address natively, meaning you cannot get it through the PPPoE side since Sky have weird authentication and I think correct me wrong non of the options without the use of 6 to 4 tunnel work, because when I ran an Asus router in their IPv6 options as with DDWRT they all have the XR500 option plus get it an IPv6 address natively meaning once the router sends the Sky authentication MER, IPv4 WAN come ups it grabs the IPv6 information too and sets it up from the intial IPv4 connection, don't even ask me about the authentication methods I just know from previous routers this is how IPv6 was implemented naturally and not using 6to4 tunnel. We're hoping Netgear sort this hassle out and updates their IPv6 implementation and bring up to Asus's standards. 

[kssxs]

So...

 

I'm resurrecting this since it was my original post.  I still have a need for this (amongst many, I'm sure), and would like to request a status update.  It's been a year and a half since my original post, and I would hope that, at least by now, there has been some progress in getting fully functional IPv6 support baked into an update.  From my last testing, IPv6 routes are dropped after 5400 seconds (90 minutes; routes go stale), requiring a reboot of the R1 to get them back.  This is, again, not doable, and a router in 2020 should have this functionality as part of its base layer.

 

Have you guys done any work with regards to IPv6 for the R1?  Can I get a status update, please?

 

Thank you

[SwiftCookie]

14 hours ago, kssxs said:

So...

 

I'm resurrecting this since it was my original post.  I still have a need for this (amongst many, I'm sure), and would like to request a status update.  It's been a year and a half since my original post, and I would hope that, at least by now, there has been some progress in getting fully functional IPv6 support baked into an update.  From my last testing, IPv6 routes are dropped after 5400 seconds (90 minutes; routes go stale), requiring a reboot of the R1 to get them back.  This is, again, not doable, and a router in 2020 should have this functionality as part of its base layer.

 

Have you guys done any work with regards to IPv6 for the R1?  Can I get a status update, please?

 

Thank you

The R1 isn't a 2020 router though....

[Od1n]

At least in my country most ISPs use IPv6 addresses and give out dual stack routers cause IPv4 addresses are either only for business customers or have to be "rented" for additional money. This might be different in other countries but IPv4 addresses will become more and more expensive so eventually all ISPs will cheap out on regular private customers.

So im all up for a better IPv6 R1 support.

 

@SwiftCookie

Yes it isnt but netduma also has 0 interest in selling a 2020 model and getting a netgear isnt really a great option either as you then either get features delayed or the netgear staff straight up rejects them.

If netduma continues to plan with the R1 then IPv6 is necessary.

[kssxs]

3 hours ago, SwiftCookie said:

The R1 isn't a 2020 router though....

It should have had more IPv6 support from day 1, considering that we've known the IPv4 address space was running out long ago.

 

Having said that, I get that IPv6 is only now growing fast, so the R1 was built with supporting the most common protocol of the day.  I can also understand if Netduma comes back and says that the R1 can't properly support IPv6 due to it's aging hardware, and we'll have to buy a newer model to get full support.

 

My main issue is that we have no news in that regard, and I would love to hear the official word either way.  That way, I (and the rest that are interested in a full IPv6 network) can plan to either keep the R1 in place, or move to a different piece of router gear that has full protocol support.

[Netduma Fraser]

20 hours ago, kssxs said:

So...

I'm resurrecting this since it was my original post.  I still have a need for this (amongst many, I'm sure), and would like to request a status update.  It's been a year and a half since my original post, and I would hope that, at least by now, there has been some progress in getting fully functional IPv6 support baked into an update.  From my last testing, IPv6 routes are dropped after 5400 seconds (90 minutes; routes go stale), requiring a reboot of the R1 to get them back.  This is, again, not doable, and a router in 2020 should have this functionality as part of its base layer.

Have you guys done any work with regards to IPv6 for the R1?  Can I get a status update, please?

Thank you

I would ask that when the beta is available that you can give us feedback on this. We don't have native IPv6 at the office, we can simulate this but that's different to a home IPv6 real world scenario. If there are still issues with it in beta you identify then we can make further changes.