Preliminary Lag Compensation Experiment Findings

[Netduma Fraser]

Hey all, want to firstly thank everyone who took part in this experiment towards the end of February. 

 

We will be releasing a video on lag comp as soon as we've done our next myth buster. 

 

I know you guys have been asking about it so in the mean time here are some of the findings:

 

Playing with added Jitter - When playing with jitter it is much harder to kill a player. 

 

Playing with added Latency - Your deaths are vastly increased.

 

Being Host - There is definitely the phenomenon of "host advantage" as hosts perform better than non player hosts.

 

There's a lot more analysis coming: packet loss, confidence etc and a lot more to come. You'll have to wait for the video.

 

This may or may not confirm thoughts you've all had about it so far. It takes a lot of time to analyse the results & we'll be doing a much bigger reveal/analysis in the 3rd network myths video but just wanted to get something out for you guys. 

[toby jugs]

i'd have been a bit perplexed if the findings didn't show a host advantage tbh after playing hundreds of games p2p on aw it was quite obvious to me.

 

plenty of people on acti's forum will deny this is a thing all the same lol.

 

looking forward to the full sp.

 

thanks fraser.

[Victor-Yout]

i really hope there were tests about bandwidth speed as i am 99,99 % sure its the reason for lag comp (in cod). when someone in my lobby stands out due to his lag comp advantages i always ask him about his bandwidth and the answer is 90% low speeds. its gone that far in bo3 that i can distinguish between 3k and 16k (3k,16k,50 and 100 are the common speeds in my country). so pleaseee are test about that.

[talbyfish]

i believe host advantage holps me loads

[kritikal]

Playing with added Jitter - When playing with jitter it is much harder to kill a player. 

 

Kill another player or be killed?

[hyperj123]

Hey all, want to firstly thank everyone who took part in this experiment towards the end of February. 

 

We will be releasing a video on lag comp as soon as we've done our next myth buster. 

 

I know you guys have been asking about it so in the mean time here are some of the findings:

 

Playing with added Jitter - When playing with jitter it is much harder to kill a player. 

 

Playing with added Latency - Your deaths are vastly increased.

 

Being Host - There is definitely the phenomenon of "host advantage" as hosts perform better than non player hosts.

 

There's a lot more analysis coming: packet loss, confidence etc and a lot more to come. You'll have to wait for the video.

 

This may or may not confirm thoughts you've all had about it so far. It takes a lot of time to analyse the results & we'll be doing a much bigger reveal/analysis in the 3rd network myths video but just wanted to get something out for you guys. 

Hey Fraser,

So I found something interesting while playing with my duma. As I started getting better I noticed I was being matched up with players more around my Score Per Minute. What really made me believe was my first game I was playing with someone and we both absolutely went crazy on the other team (I went 46-9 he went 53-7). Next game around he "randomly" appeared on the other team and as a result the game went for longer and my team won 100-95. This was of course on Black Ops III. Seeing this I decided to turn off my profile and switch it to non gaming and run some torrents while live streaming. I then realized my score per minute not only went up but I was winning gun fights I clearly shouldn't have won. From there I believe especially on BO3 that lag compensation trumps SBMM. 

[Madman]

I've been playing BO3 Game Battles and every time I host I get insta-melted. I'm not sure if I believe the host advantage deal or not

[TheGreatDansby]

I hosted my group and I could honestly say I did not experience any advantage. People were actually laughing and telling me that they shot me around walls. But you have all my footage as well. Lol

[Od1n]

very interesting infos Fraser, cannot wait to see the video!

[A7Legit]

Will be good to see the video, there's plenty to learn from it I'm sure.

 

The anti-jitter algorithm when it releases, will hopefully make BO3 even more consistent (90% now).

 

Edit: Deleted what I do and know, sorry folks, blame those who ruined it for you.

Don't PM me about it either please, any PM's about it will be ignored.

 

Cheers.

[Od1n]

yeah anti-jitter will be the next big thing for sure!

[AnnonymouS]

Hope to see that come out very soon. It has be some time since the last up date.

[Zennon]

I am lucky to have no jitter on my line.

 

I have played in the USA at 100ms and more and a friend of mine has played with me from the usa on the Irish server with no detriment.

 

I have used net emulators to add latency and with bops 3 there is no difference if I add latency

 

With older titles there is an issue

 

I am a truthful fella and i wont lie.

 

Bops 3 lag comp is perfect i find older titles not so.

 

If people find bops 3 lag comp to be off look at you ISP's jitter before you blame the game.

[II MAZE II]

I am lucky to have no jitter on my line.

 

I have played in the USA at 100ms and more and a friend of mine has played with me from the usa on the Irish server with no detriment.

 

I have used net emulators to add latency and with bops 3 there is no difference if I add latency

 

With older titles there is an issue

 

I am a truthful fella and i wont lie.

 

Bops 3 lag comp is perfect i find older titles not so.

 

If people find bops 3 lag comp to be off look at you ISP's jitter before you blame the game.

And jitter in another term is bufferbloat? Or different? To correct jitter one would need to adjust CC settings, while checking dslreport and/or ping plotter? Unless it's shoty ISP lines?

 

I seem to average around 80ms game from Hawaii. So is there a new feature coming to the R1 anti-jitter?

[Od1n]

And jitter in another term is bufferbloat? Or different? To correct jitter one would need to adjust CC settings, while checking dslreport and/or ping plotter? Unless it's shoty ISP lines?

 

I seem to average around 80ms game from Hawaii. So is there a new feature coming to the R1 anti-jitter?

 

network jitter has two sources, the first one is your own line with things such as bufferbloat what you have mentioned already

the second one is the hosts connection, so outside of your own network

 

anti jitter will tackle both of these sources at the same time

your network jitter will be gone because of Iains new congestion mechanic which makes it possible to have a maximum jitter of 5ms even when you max out your entire bandwidth

so reducing your connection via congestion control will no longer be needed

the jitter coming from the hosts network will be smoothed out by raising your ping whenever its needed to guarantee minimum jitter

 

that is how Iain described it a while ago

not sure though if the jitter from the hosts connection will also be realized since Fraser once mentioned potential legal issues with the nextwork agreements on the console platforms. would be nice to hear a statement from Netduma about this as having both in one feature would be awesome, it would probably be the biggest selling feature together with the geo-filter

[A7Legit]

@Od1n

 

This is why I hope fw 2.0.0 does at least help control/lower jitter on our end in the very least.

 

Dampening serverside would be icing on the cake. Instead of it being a tick box feature, I'd rather it implemented into another algorithm if I had a say on the matter.

 

If people find bops 3 lag comp to be off look at you ISP's jitter before you blame the game.

 

I agree that jitter on one's own line is more important than jitter on a dedicated server for example because everybody connecting to that dedicated server, more or less, will have the same/similar line deviation connecting to it.

[Zennon]

I agree that jitter on one's own line is more important than jitter on a dedicated server for example because everybody connecting to that dedicated server, more or less, will have the same/similar line deviation connecting to it.

 

I think I have been lucky sticking with Xbox as their servers are much better than Activisions going by the reports from users here, but i do not know the state of their ISP's jitter when they make these claims though.

[Alex49H]

network jitter has two sources, the first one is your own line with things such as bufferbloat what you have mentioned already

the second one is the hosts connection, so outside of your own network

 

anti jitter will tackle both of these sources at the same time

your network jitter will be gone because of Iains new congestion mechanic which makes it possible to have a maximum jitter of 5ms even when you max out your entire bandwidth

so reducing your connection via congestion control will no longer be needed

the jitter coming from the hosts network will be smoothed out by raising your ping whenever its needed to guarantee minimum jitter

 

that is how Iain described it a while ago

not sure though if the jitter from the hosts connection will also be realized since Fraser once mentioned potential legal issues with the nextwork agreements on the console platforms. would be nice to hear a statement from Netduma about this as having both in one feature would be awesome, it would probably be the biggest selling feature together with the geo-filter

 

This is something that I am DEFINTELY looking forward too, to eliminate or decrease that jitter on my line!

[TEH BUTCHER]

I am lucky to have no jitter on my line.

 

I have played in the USA at 100ms and more and a friend of mine has played with me from the usa on the Irish server with no detriment.

 

I have used net emulators to add latency and with bops 3 there is no difference if I add latency

 

With older titles there is an issue

 

I am a truthful fella and i wont lie.

 

Bops 3 lag comp is perfect i find older titles not so.

 

If people find bops 3 lag comp to be off look at you ISP's jitter before you blame the game.

 

Same BLOPS3 is pretty straightforward for me low ping game I do well high ping game I don't.

[fuzzy clam]

I'm looking forward to the full results also,to see exactly what will make it better or worse and "what" if anything we can do to improve our own situations with the game.

[Victor-Yout]

Will be good to see the video, there's plenty to learn from it I'm sure.

 

I've done my own tests for my setup here (so my findings won't be the same for others), I've controlled the network around the R1 to lower jitter as much as possible (5ms jitter decreased) whilst keeping things pretty much in sync on both my nearby dedicated servers in BO3 with what I see on screen and 90-95% of the time this works very well with no throttling, well 3% but how many people run their networks at 97% of their max speeds these days for an A+ BB (whilst under some load) whilst controlling egress shaping enough not fluctuate the amount of jitter at all?

 

If it helps anyone, I've had further benefit with the following you'll see in the picture attached.

 

Anti-jitter which I'm hoping will arrive in fw 2.0.0 will be the final nail in the COD coffin on my end and then I will consider the lag compensation saga dead and buried, that is if I can lower my jitter by another 2-3ms.

 

Here's a theater mode vid (BO3) of my hit reg using the R1, jitter matters, the less the better.

https://youtu.be/zRjZm-jkTfs

you only use port 3074 in hyper traffic and not psn? does it work better like that?

[fuzzy clam]

you only use port 3074 in hyper traffic and not psn? does it work better like that?

Was actually curious about that myself A7,I started doing that last night as per your set up pics in this thread.

[A7Legit]

you only use port 3074 in hyper traffic and not psn? does it work better like that?

 

 

Was actually curious about that myself A7,I started doing that last night as per your set up pics in this thread.

 

It works better for me, I cannot explain why exactly because Ports 3074 are included automatically when using straight up Xbox Live and/or Playstation Network in hyper-lane but there are other ports shared in those priority settings.

If this makes the difference or whether it's only a placebo remains uncertain...

 

As far as I'm concerned however, if it ain't broke, don't fix it and this works better than I recall it working before when using straight up XBL/PSN respectively.

 

Check the video to see how BO3 plays for me more than 90% of the time. 

[UK_Wildcats_Fans]

Was actually curious about that myself A7,I started doing that last night as per your set up pics in this thread.

 

Are you seeing a difference like A7Legit?

[fuzzy clam]

It works better for me, I cannot explain why exactly because Ports 3074 are included automatically when using straight up Xbox Live and/or Playstation Network in hyper-lane but there are other ports shared in those priority settings.

If this makes the difference or whether it's only a placebo remains uncertain...

 

As far as I'm concerned however, if it ain't broke, don't fix it and this works better than I recall it working before when using straight up XBL/PSN respectively.

 

Check the video to see how BO3 plays for me more than 90% of the time. 

Yeah I checked out the vid and you definitely have crispy hit detection on every single kill,which I'll be honest looks really great but damn I'd be screaming if I were going against you in a lobby as you just wreck people.

 

And I was curious as to "why it worked" but sometimes no one has an answer for "why things work or why they don't" but I agree if it's working no reason to do anything different.