BO3 Netcode analysis, very interesting

[ltr7]

[Alex49H]

High Ping = lag because of how long it took packets to get there. Iain is right. Need a low ping to enjoy a game.

[corrosiveguy]

High Ping = lag because of how long it took packets to get there. Iain is right. Need a low ping to enjoy a game.

 

I would love to of seen a side by side comparison of the Xbox One version vs the PS4 version. I recently switched and noticed a night a day difference when I played the PS4 version. When I played on an Xbox one Dedi in Kansas City my ping would be between 45-50ms.. On PS4 on a Kansas City dedi it would be 25-33 ms. The resolution and frame rate is also much better. You can tell it was built for PS4 and Xbox got a mediocre port. Which was the case in previous years for PS3 etc.

[Netduma Fraser]

Very interesting. We'll be doing our own videos on these kinds of topics very soon!

[fuzzy clam]

Very interesting. We'll be doing our own videos on these kinds of topics very soon!

Very much looking forward to that stuff Fraser as I'm sure everyone else is too

[Akic]

Interesting, never really considered different transmission and receive rates to the server. I wonder why it's asynchronous?

[iAmMoDBoX]

Interesting, never really considered different transmission and receive rates to the server. I wonder why it's asynchronous?

 

That's alot of work for a server to send to who knows how many clients. I'm sure there are multiple games running on each server and every server has limited resources. If it's anything like web hosting servers they are notorious for being over loaded and over sold.

[JConnor]

What is ironic is these are the exact issues (tick rate; update rate; etc.) myself and other experienced PC gamers tried to bring to Activision and console players attention during AW, but we were shut down because there was not "sufficient" evidence to back up our concerns.

 

Also, this validates every single player who stated players with high pings do better in CoD than those with low pings.

 

This doesn't invalidate the Netduma. It invalidates CoD as any kind of "competitive" game online. I will not be playing any further CoDs because while I accept latency on the Internet, I do not accept Activison's standards of what they consider a fair, or good online gaming experience. Netcode that favors high ping is unacceptable and basically fraud that adds an unfair and random element to the game most young players are unaware of, but who will spend inordinate amounts of time and money on to try and get "better" when there is no such thing.

[Akic]

That's alot of work for a server to send to who knows how many clients. I'm sure there are multiple games running on each server and every server has limited resources. If it's anything like web hosting servers they are notorious for being over loaded and over sold.

 

Yeah, good point.  Never forget Activision's cheapness

[ltr7]

What is ironic is these are the exact issues (tick rate; update rate; etc.) myself and other experienced PC gamers tried to bring to Activision and console players attention during AW, but we were shut down because there was not "sufficient" evidence to back up our concerns.

 

Also, this validates every single player who stated players with high pings do better in CoD than those with low pings.

 

This doesn't invalidate the Netduma. It invalidates CoD as any kind of "competitive" game online. I will not be playing any further CoDs because while I accept latency on the Internet, I do not accept Activison's standards of what they consider a fair, or good online gaming experience. Netcode that favors high ping is unacceptable and basically fraud that adds an unfair and random element to the game most young players are unaware of, but who will spend inordinate amounts of time and money on to try and get "better" when there is no such thing.

I think the most effective way to make the game better is to a maximum ping gap in lobbies, yes I know people might have to wait more than two seconds to find a game but not getting shot around a corner from a player who has a 200+ms gap from me would be worth it. People might say it will split the player base, maybe that's a good thing after all the old gen consoles are on their way out and people want a more competitive game and a less random one. It would also put less stress on the game engine that's trying to lag comp such huge cracks in time. jmho

[JConnor]

I think the most effective way to make the game better is to a maximum ping gap in lobbies, yes I know people might have to wait more than two seconds to find a game but not getting shot around a corner from a player who has a 200+ms gap from me would be worth it. People might say it will split the player base, maybe that's a good thing after all the old gen consoles are on their way out and people want a more competitive game and a less random one. It would also put less stress on the game engine that's trying to lag comp such huge cracks in time. jmho

 

I agree, and the community has brought this up time and time again on the official forums, Twitter, Reddit, etc.

 

It won't happen because 1) If they do this, a lot of the ADHD kids will complain it takes "too long" to find matches (even if it is literally 5-10 seconds more), and 2) this indirectly means Activision was wrong and had to spend money to improve the online gaming experience... Which is something they don't want to admit to even if subtly. They are all about money, but not spending money to make money, ironically. It's the typical corporate "do more with the less you have" mentality, but there comes a point where this kind of business practice eventually fails because consumers catch on and demand better products... Which is what another poster wrote.

 

In my opinion, the only way to force Activision to do something about CoD is if the majority of the community (the younger kids who play CoD on consoles) just stop buying the yearly installments. Period. The other part would be if the visible community voices (TMRTN, Ali-A, Drift0r, etc.) also put their foot down and told kids NOT to buy the latest CoD because it's a sub par experience online. This will NEVER happen because they all have vested self-interests in keeping CoD alive for as long as possible.

 

I apologize if I am being negative, but seeing the scientific and statistical proof of how this game is designed is something I can't ignore.

 

I know I can't convince anybody to not play something, and I also do not fault the Netduma one bit. It's an amazing piece of tech Ian and the crew have created. I fully believe I have gotten my $200 worth out of it and will continue to do so with other games.

 

The problem is CoD and Activision, IMO. If you look at the way they push the game, the microDLC (cases, supply drops, etc.), the e-sports angle, etc. it's all geared toward -- I hate to use this term -- Naive kids who will spend their parents money on virtual and literal crap in the hopes of being the next MLG pro, the next big YT, Twitch, etc. personality. Everybody is free to spend money on what they want in a free market. I just feel CoD is not worth my time or effort anymore when it is clear (to me) nothing is going to get better regardless of the R1, or not.

[II N3MES1S II]

I would love to of seen a side by side comparison of the Xbox One version vs the PS4 version. I recently switched and noticed a night a day difference when I played the PS4 version. When I played on an Xbox one Dedi in Kansas City my ping would be between 45-50ms.. On PS4 on a Kansas City dedi it would be 25-33 ms. The resolution and frame rate is also much better. You can tell it was built for PS4 and Xbox got a mediocre port. Which was the case in previous years for PS3 etc.

 

I would rather have 60FPS over native 1080p@50FPS.

[Ste]

I would rather have 60FPS over native 1080p@50FPS.

 

I've got both and too me the xbox version runs smoother than the ps4, due to its frame rate drops.

[A7Legit]

High Ping = lag because of how long it took packets to get there. Iain is right. Need a low ping to enjoy a game.

 

...but pay attention to what he says at 11:57.

[UK_Wildcats_Fans]

...but pay attention to what he says at 11:57.

 

Exactly!!  

[Xacebop]

I've got both and too me the xbox version runs smoother than the ps4, due to its frame rate drops.

You've obviously never tried to play ground war on Xbox one.. The only hiccups I've seen on either side were there. Didn't effect my experience, but was definitely noticeable.

[procreate]

has ovenbakedmuffin done a BO3 video yet? or is he just over CoD?

[wrathoftank]

 

Great post, this video perfectly explains what I feel about COD netcode.

[procreate]

just watched, thats a LOT of lag.

[JConnor]

I was reading the comments for the video on YT, and while most were civil, it makes me appreciate this community even more because we are one level "above" them in terms of knowledge, experience and backgrounds since the majority of us are older, working adults. We are prosumers vs. average consumers. We may not individually have a degree in IT and network protocols, but we knew something was wrong with not just CoD, but other games where connection -- good or bad -- comes first, skill second.

 

Many of the people commenting on the video didn't know how a basic server / client network functions, nor how much ping (vs. bandwidth) matters when playing online. This is exactly what Activision, and other publishers want because the current online gaming standard provided by them is far below acceptable standards, IMHO e.g. Rainbow Six Siege's netcode suffers from the same types of problems, apparently.

[TEH BUTCHER]

Learned something... didn't realize there was different transmission intervals between client > server and server > client... fixing that (see increasing server>client) would be a significant improvement.  I wonder why they set it up the way they did? to decrease server bandwidth use?

[TEH BUTCHER]

Would it be possible to have the router limit the transmission frequency to the server? For example in the video it shows client to server transmission every 20 ms and server to client every 50s? If I'm only getting updates from the server every 50ms I don't want to update the server more frequently it just increases that chance of me updating an opponent before the server updates me.

 

I guess this would put you on an uneven playing field to other consoles that aren't throttle their transmission frequency but would it be possible for the Duma to be programmed to do that?

[Netduma Crossy]

Would it be possible to have the router limit the transmission frequency to the server? For example in the video it shows client to server transmission every 20 ms and server to client every 50s? If I'm only getting updates from the server every 50ms I don't want to update the server more frequently it just increases that chance of me updating an opponent before the server updates me.

 

I guess this would put you on an uneven playing field to other consoles that aren't throttle their transmission frequency but would it be possible for the Duma to be programmed to do that?

 

I think it would be considered cheating as you are manipulating the network connection pretty heavily by doing that.

[TEH BUTCHER]

I think it would be considered cheating as you are manipulating the network connection pretty heavily by doing that.

 

So you're saying there's a chance? you're right though but do you think that would be detectable by the server?

[Netduma Crossy]

So you're saying there's a chance? you're right though but do you think that would be detectable by the server?

 

No idea. All packets on consoles are encrypted which would probably be a problem. But I really don't know. Either way, detectable or not, I'm pretty sure something like this would be cheating.