Yep cod is fked for good connections..

[davemarsden132]

Hi All,

Did abit of testing today, so my 1gbps down / 110mbps up BT connection of fibre direct to my property that gives me a 11ms ping in warzone in the UK that i thought would really up my game to turn pro.... kinda did the opposite.

At my old home on blackout i was a 5kd, i moved home jst as warzone dropped so bought the best of the best internet thinking im taking this full time. 

What ended up happening was i got massive shoot first die first all the damn time. I tried different routers, i tried my connection to 0.5mbps, i tried MTU settings, i tried everything and nothing really helped.

 

Yesterday i bought a 5g router and put a 5g three mobile sim in it, i connected to warzone. My ping was 61ms, the game didnt feel as smooth as my 5g router could only connect to 4g. I think i was getting speeds of 9mbps down and 2mbps up. 

Tried this out and wow, the game was totally different.. by miles! I won every single 1on1, i won every single gulag, i could actually get out of the way when people where shooting me instead of just dying.

I got a daily KD yesterday of 4.97... all live on stream before anyone calls hacks 😂! 

 

Im going to try it another night, see what happens. What KD i get to make sure it wasnt just a fluke. I am then going to connect back onto BT and see to make sure its just not the game having changed something and a coincidence. 

 

Will update you all with my findings. 

[Netduma Fraser]

To recreate that you could force a server further away and throttle your speeds significantly

[davemarsden132]

So madness...

Did 2/3 days on the 5g router, only getting 4g, 80-100 ping in game.. shots were connecting like a beast! 

4.5-5.5kd them games

Went back to BT, tried 2/3 days. 2.5-3kd.... the difference in the game is insane! 

 

So what i have found out. If your hitting 27-38ms ping, your lucky as fuck! Your not getting any lag compo, just tweak your settings and you'll be getting best the game can offer! 

 

If your below 27ms ping, i get 8, 11 or 15ms. Your getting hit HARD with lag compo, this is nothing to do with router etc.. this is just COD being COD and implementing shit to stop those with good stuff shitting on everyone else. 

 

I sort of get it, i sort of dont! 

But i think until i can get 5g in my area, ive no option but to out up with it

 

I tried the geofilter to ping 30ms, it wouldnt connect to a game for some reason

[Bert]

Lagcompensation is region dependend. In EU I have found playing on about 30ms ping is ok. In Asia where distances are greater you need to be a bit higher.

 

Lag compensation is hugely dependant on the other players in your lobby, what ping they have etc.

 

Also on 4G. Similar to wifi, 4G is half duplex, which means you cannot recieve data while sending. If you want to recreate this on a PC, set your NIC to 100mbit half duplex (1000 is only available in full duplex as far as I know)

[Knomax]

This is the "fault" of dedicated servers...the approach is right to use dedicated servers and not p2p connections (one player host) in case that you have servers around the world and not only around Germany, Belgium and England.

Company "sells" their product (Vanguard) and in other countrys like Greece,Turkey,Albania etc....why these players must be in the downside of the game because they are far from servers and always play etc 60-70 ping and cannot do anything about this..they are just far .....also these players have paid the game to like you...so game must be "funny" and for them not only "lucky" players which have the servers near them.

So if you have as you said very good connection and connect to server at etc 20ms and me 70ms game must add to you +50ms latency with lag compensation to play the "same"...and now the problem starts....lag compensation NEVER have been set up "good" from game company adding to "good" connections artificial latency more than it needs.

We  have played private match with a friend from England...for testing capturing real time data with tcpdump and looking it in Wireshark....i was connected at 60ms and his was connected at 36ms..that it was looking from game menu!

The truth was that game didnt add to him etc +30ms to play the same at 60ms but adds to him +70ms not 30ms...so giving to me advantage....game usually sends data at a 64Hz network tick rate meaning it sends a game packet every 1/64 = 0.0156 seconds or 15.6 ms....increase the rate or decrease by lag compensation adding latency to packets.

Company knew it many years now and does nothing about it.

Thats why for sure with your connection and ping to server of 11ms your game must be smooth "in a perfect world".

So dedicated servers are "good"?Yes if you have many around the world to "catch" every player.

P2p matchmaking is good?For sure no BUT if you dont have enough servers with p2p you will guaranty that players with 10ms ping and players with 70ms ping WILL not play together.

Players with 10ms ping will play together with players at range etc 5ms-30ms etc and 70ms players with 50ms to 90ms.........so sometimes by ping from your connection will have advantage and sometimes not...thats ok.

Now every time your connection penalized by lag compensation...and my connection which DONT penalized by lag compensation it doesnt matters because already have "latency" caused i am far from server.

For now only a small "part" o f players have the "perfect credentials" which game likes....close to servers but with big latency.

This is only my thoughts maybe wrong maybe right....for sure something goes really "wrong" because old players that play COD for about 10+ years left the game.

Also SBMM....attached to game because players with not very good reaction times,accuracy and so on...somehow must win sometimes to continue playing the game and buy it again next year.

So in one game with the same weapon and same class you need 3 bullets to kill someone...next game you need a magazine to kill and bullets doesnt register!!!It is funny.

[Knomax]

On 12/10/2021 at 1:27 PM, davemarsden132 said:

Did abit of testing today, so my 1gbps down / 110mbps up BT connection of fibre direct to my property that gives me a 11ms ping in warzone in the UK that i thought would really up my game to turn pro.... kinda did the opposite.

At my old home on blackout i was a 5kd, i moved home jst as warzone dropped so bought the best of the best internet thinking im taking this full time. 

What ended up happening was i got massive shoot first die first all the damn time. I tried different routers, i tried my connection to 0.5mbps, i tried MTU settings, i tried everything and nothing really helped.

According to your connection with 110Mbps upload..110000kbps

1500*8/110000 = 0.10   0.1ms latency to upload a single packet of 1500 bytes.

When you throttled you connection to 0.5Mbps....500Kbps

1500*8/500 = 24   24ms latency to upload a single packet of 1500 bytes.

Your location doesn't change you are close to server ..your base ping is the same... latency becomes by throttling your connection doesn't care the game.

Using mobile internet....

Your location doesn't change you are close to server.....your base ping from mobile goes to sky!!!!....latency becomes from mobile connection "loved" by COD.

In "normal" situations, your game from mobile must be totally UNPLAYABLE...

As i said in previous post....problem of game company and their network set up...i will not use the right "word" about this because will tell me that i am rude.😁

[davemarsden132]

Yeah its all down to call of duty! So annoying

[johnnytran]

23 hours ago, Knomax said:

According to your connection with 110Mbps upload..110000kbps

1500*8/110000 = 0.10   0.1ms latency to upload a single packet of 1500 bytes.

When you throttled you connection to 0.5Mbps....500Kbps

1500*8/500 = 24   24ms latency to upload a single packet of 1500 bytes.

Your location doesn't change you are close to server ..your base ping is the same... latency becomes by throttling your connection doesn't care the game.

Using mobile internet....

Your location doesn't change you are close to server.....your base ping from mobile goes to sky!!!!....latency becomes from mobile connection "loved" by COD.

In "normal" situations, your game from mobile must be totally UNPLAYABLE...

As i said in previous post....problem of game company and their network set up...i will not use the right "word" about this because will tell me that i am rude.😁

I'm not sure about this with Vanguard. If it was true, netem would work all the time? It has never worked for me, even when I try get the sweet 60ms I still feel behind everyone. Even VPN to add an extra 20-30ms doesn't work.

I have a very stable fiber connection as you can see in the screenshot below (ignore the bandwidth, problem with the server). Always on the bad side of lag comp.

I have a feeling some jitter and packetloss is the secret. 4g isn't very reliable and would give you some packetloss and jitter, the right combination to get you on the good side of lag comp it seems. Not every 4g connection would give you it though. Some people are just lucky with their set up and ride the lag compensation each year dropping nukes nearly every match lol.

 

 

[Bert]

I tried simulating all that with Softperfect connection manager, adding latency, packetloss, jitter, reorder packets etc.

 

The only thing I found was that adding latency makes the fights feel more fair but it didn't really change the outcome of games. 

[Knomax]

1 hour ago, johnnytran said:

I'm not sure about this with Vanguard. If it was true, netem would work all the time? It has never worked for me, even when I try get the sweet 60ms I still feel behind everyone. Even VPN to add an extra 20-30ms doesn't work.

First of all how do you know that the "sweet spot" is 60ms.Then i speak for a different situation....netem adds a specific latency etc 40ms in your already STABLE base line ping etc 10...so 40+10=50 ms FIXXED all the time.

From mobile internet you dont have stable ping one moment 20ms then 300ms then 40ms...also some corrupted data transfer which in game you see the icon "packet burst"...and i think this is the trick.....corrupted connections for some ms...not very much to disconnect....but enough for "packet burst".

The thought is that when you shoot me you send data to server and my console sends data to server to predict where i am for you...but my data is corrupted...on moment here one moment there....so when you shoot me "server" doesnt  accept the hits because cannot predict where i am....waiting the next "burst" of packets to figure out...this is latency for the server to process your packets as a hit.!!

The opposite for me....you use netem with some latency...this is ok for the server...it can predict your location to send data to me..it isn't problem....so when i shoot you the process of hits it is much faster than yours (waiting for my data).

This is only my thought...it has some logic..of course we can't be sure.

Everyone of us have try so many different things.

@Bert   For sure if their set up in gaming network was "right" playing with mobile internet against people with fiber connections and low ping...your game must be unplayble.

[alex.devine]

Guys,

I have been trying to make my XR500 play ball for a long time and I thought I would try a VPN, Express VPN.

WOW what a difference it has made to Vanguard for me.

UK player on BT 500MB.

Here is what I do:

1, Manually set the VPN and download the config file, use any of the Germany locations - Add the config to the VPN settings on the Duma.

2, Set the GEO filter over the UK.

3, Enjoy, I am now finding my deaths are from being shot on the back due to poor spawns. (Vanguard MP, not Warzone, I am too scared to enter that world of Warzone HAHA).

NOTE: 90% of my games are perfect, 10% are just COD, you will feel the difference when you play a bad game.

It worked for me, I have tested this over 3 days just to make sure and it is working perfect.

Maybe it will help!

[johnnytran]

51 minutes ago, Knomax said:

From mobile internet you dont have stable ping one moment 20ms then 300ms then 40ms...also some corrupted data transfer which in game you see the icon "packet burst"...and i think this is the trick.....corrupted connections for some ms...not very much to disconnect....but enough for "packet burst".

I agree here, I think the perfect connection would be a low ping but also have random spikes and packetloss. Something the server can't predict to add a fixed latency to you because it's random. I remember one of the earlier scripts we were running was ok in CW but it would show quite a lot of dropped packets when checking the qdisc stats. It doesn't make sense - it's dropping gaming packets but it gave me some of the best hit detection I had.

A lot of people say 60ms is the sweet spot but who knows. I think for someone to have that type of latency to a close server there must be some issue with their connection. One person I play with that drops a V2 nearly every game sits around 40ms ping. In CW a friend was untouchable on 60ms ping, he played via wireless and had packetloss lol. The people I have difficultly with in Vanguard always have packetburst

[Knomax]

And every speedtest if you see counts etc ping, latency under load, packet loss......but none of them if you have "packet burst"..like micro disconnections.

[Bert]

@Knowmax

 

People are forgetting that lag compensation has evolved, lag compensation in the old days was just there so you could hit eachother. Nowadays it makes the game fair.

 

I have tried adding artificial latency. It just makes the game feel more fair but doesn't change the outcome much.

 

What was funny is that I measured the actual time to getting hitmarkers. Like when I was playing at 30ms at the SG server, it took me 100ms to get a hitmarker. Then I increased latency while in game to 60ms, and guess what happen it still took 100ms to get a hitmarker, so unchanged.

 

Wat is going on here, the server simply adds latency to your incoming data. It compares different latencies in the lobby and then decides how much to add to each player, based on the average ping in the lobby.

 

it doesn't end there. There is also something called peakers advantage.

 

Say you play on 10 ms and I play on 100 ms.

 

You come around the corner first. In the old days, if you had 60Hz servers, your advantage would be my delay + your delay + 3 x interval between packets. The client delays movements by 3 packet intervals so it can render a smooth movement path. So in this case 100+10+(3x16)= 158ms advantage.

 

To combat this, nowadays clients can extrapolate positions. You are coming around the same corner again. But the server takes live measurements of your actual latency. So it simply forwards your position by extrapolation on my screen so that it sort of appears realtime. Ie it forwards your path by 158ms so we are able to shoot at the same time. Because you have 10ms and I have 100ms, I should loose the gunfight. But that is where the added latency comes in, the server delays your hits by 90ms.

 

[Fuzy]

It's very interesting !

By finding the right balance, there is the possibility of balancing the thing!

This can give an advantage to a good player who could be disadvantaged by the lag compensation!

[Bert]

13 hours ago, Knomax said:

First of all how do you know that the "sweet spot" is 60ms.Then i speak for a different situation....netem adds a specific latency etc 40ms in your already STABLE base line ping etc 10...so 40+10=50 ms FIXXED all the time.

From mobile internet you dont have stable ping one moment 20ms then 300ms then 40ms...also some corrupted data transfer which in game you see the icon "packet burst"...and i think this is the trick.....corrupted connections for some ms...not very much to disconnect....but enough for "packet burst".

The thought is that when you shoot me you send data to server and my console sends data to server to predict where i am for you...but my data is corrupted...on moment here one moment there....so when you shoot me "server" doesnt  accept the hits because cannot predict where i am....waiting the next "burst" of packets to figure out...this is latency for the server to process your packets as a hit.!!

The opposite for me....you use netem with some latency...this is ok for the server...it can predict your location to send data to me..it isn't problem....so when i shoot you the process of hits it is much faster than yours (waiting for my data).

This is only my thought...it has some logic..of course we can't be sure.

Everyone of us have try so many different things.

@Bert   For sure if their set up in gaming network was "right" playing with mobile internet against people with fiber connections and low ping...your game must be unplayble.

 

I failed to mention one thing as well.

 

The server sends you a snapshot and your client extrapolates data from that. The server snapshot is 'leading' when it comes to player positions. So if you have a good stable connection, and hit your shots then the other guy playing on 4G shouldn't be an issue. Because you report to the server that you hit player Y on spot X, and this is exactly where he should be according to the server snapshot, so the server should grant the hit. 

[Knomax]

@Bert I agree but for sure my friend these "methods" doesnt  "work" or they didn't set up them properly....we see it every day...some people have advantage....if all this worked as it should be all players will "play" the same game..fair.

[Bert]

I play on full bandwidth usually. What you will see is that there is some player that seems to have a advantage. But then later in the same game you can kill the player easily and it looks like he doesn't even see you when you are standing in front of him. When you start throttling connections etc your advantage also moves against you in these situations. That's what I mean by it doesn't alter the outcome of the game in the longer run. Or you have a few deaths where it's wtf he had advantage and then at the end of the game you look at the score board and it was something like 10-8 between you and that specific player.

 

Problem is also that CoD players are arrogant. Each one thinks that they can be a 3K/D player while in reality most can't. You can but it takes a specific playstyle and you need to have the basics right. Most run around like mad and expect to win every ad hoc gunfight. If you play like that then you can expect the outcome of every gunfight to be 50/50. Routers won't fix this for you.

 

The only thing I can think of is 4G being half duplex. So if you send packets to the server you won't receive and vice versa. 

[Knomax]

Many users say that a VPN helps..what is your opinion?

[Bert]

I have never found that to be of any use at all. Might just as well just use your duma and set your location to another continent.

 

What it might cause is that you run into p2p games, if you are connecting to places like Afghanistan. In that case it will defeat skill based matchmaking. We used to do that in Asia in IW and WW2 since there were no servers for central Asia. Issue here is that you can have very dodgy host connections, since these people are not allowed on dedicated servers for a reason.

 

All in all I rather play on local servers with responsive latency then on 200-300ms.

[johnnytran]

When I've played with full speed connection I haven't had a single good match. Everyone seems to be moving faster than usual and when I watch the killcam I look like I'm moving around really slow like I don't know what I'm doing lol

I have only had "fair" matches when I've made my connection seem a lot worse than it is. Even then it rarely runs well but it's a lot better than dying before I can even ADS at people when playing full speed

[Knomax]

For a few days i dont run Netduma...i have Edgerouter X with Openwrt  latest beta snapshot....and i run a custom script for QOS loading Cake and making iptables rules without need of SQM.

It runs very well... my games...9/10 times are fair ...i kill people as easy they kill me..i dont think i am half second behind them....and game usually connects me at 60-90 ms ping...this is what it says in game menu.

[N3CR0]

3 hours ago, johnnytran said:

When I've played with full speed connection I haven't had a single good match. Everyone seems to be moving faster than usual and when I watch the killcam I look like I'm moving around really slow like I don't know what I'm doing lol

I have only had "fair" matches when I've made my connection seem a lot worse than it is. Even then it rarely runs well but it's a lot better than dying before I can even ADS at people when playing full speed

Same here.

I've tried pretty much everything over the years and the only thing thats ever made a difference for me is throttling my connection with QoS.

[johnnytran]

14 hours ago, Knomax said:

For a few days i dont run Netduma...i have Edgerouter X with Openwrt  latest beta snapshot....and i run a custom script for QOS loading Cake and making iptables rules without need of SQM.

It runs very well... my games...9/10 times are fair ...i kill people as easy they kill me..i dont think i am half second behind them....and game usually connects me at 60-90 ms ping...this is what it says in game menu.

Is that elan's scrip? I haven't tested it out yet. I'm still using one of the older scripts you and dlakelan put together. Might try the cake one over the weekend

[Dopam-IT_1987]

hi johnny yes this is elan's script i can help you configure it because elan shared it with me and we configured it together as it has the same router as me and i made some changes to it. do not hesitate if you need help,

with its script my gameplay is fluid

I would never thank him enough for teaching me so much God bless him