Must Be Magic?!

[CrossFitKila717]

So with a line/connection like this.......yet there’s still rooms I get melted in! And I’m talking 4ms ping even on my Geo for whatever server I’m connected to as well. 

I just wanted to demonstrate (and correct me if I’m wrong please), that there’s just nothing that’s going to completely eliminate those odd lobbies/people that destroy you. I literally think they got some secret magic going on! Lol 😂 

Whats everyone’s thoughts? 

[Bert]

This says nothing. It just says that the Google server is close to you and has a good routing path. It doesn't say what ping you have to the CoD server.

 

I actually have a lower ping to the CoD server than I have to Google for example if it's a good day.

 

And the AWS cloud I connect to can return anywhere from 31ms to 42ms ping depending on what uplink I am connecting to. That's purely their shit network.

 

Cloudflare is even faster for me, returning 12ms indicating that it's much closer.

 

Funny thing is that if I speedtest against a server in my city, but owned by one of my ISP's competitors, I get 20ms indicating that the network routing isn't favorable, it probably gets routed towards the other end of the country and then send back to my city.

[Netduma Alex]

As @Bert says, this shows that you have a great connection to Google. The thing about Ping is that you always have to have somewhere remote to connect to in order to measure the connection. Ping can't exist as an concrete value for every connection you make, but you can notice trends.

The fact that you have such a good connection to Google suggests that you have no internal problems with the wiring in your house, so the problem might be the distance to the CoD server, or perhaps the port forwarding on your end.

[CrossFitKila717]

Well crap.........then what am I supposed to do then?! How do I ping a server that truly represents my gameplay? I feel like all this is nothing but a crapshoot.......I get 4 to 5ms in game on what the Geo shows......is this not legit?

[Netduma Fraser]

You're getting that low a ping to the game? If that's the case you're right on top of the server essentially and it's more akin to what it's like playing on LAN than online! I think what people forget is that when you have a good connection, it is fairer so that means if you're used to a higher ping level of gameplay then you may not get away with things you did before.

 

[CrossFitKila717]

3 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

You're getting that low a ping to the game? If that's the case you're right on top of the server essentially and it's more akin to what it's like playing on LAN than online! I think what people forget is that when you have a good connection, it is fairer so that means if you're used to a higher ping level of gameplay then you may not get away with things you did before.

 

On the geofilter, while playing, that’s the ping I get correlating to the server/Peer that’s highlighted on the map. 

I’m not sure what you’re saying? So is my gameplay suffering because of this near perfect connection?

[Netduma Fraser]

What I mean is that the game is more fair so you may die/kill quicker because the connection is better but it's not lag really it's just how it's meant to be.

[CrossFitKila717]

1 hour ago, Netduma Fraser said:

What I mean is that the game is more fair so you may die/kill quicker because the connection is better but it's not lag really it's just how it's meant to be.

So you’re saying that since “I” have an amazing connection, I will also die quicker as well???

As in a 4ms Ping allows me to kill & DIE at a 4ms ping?

And if this is the case, then please explain to me the benefit of the Netduma/Geofilter if I’m being punished because my connection is awesome????

 

[Bert]

There is instances where you can exploit lag (peaking advantage) but in a 1 on 1 head on fight you should have the advantage. 

 

You should also realize that ping is round trip. So if you have 4ms ping your shots reach the server after 2ms.

 

Also the cleaner your connection is and lower ping, the better lag compensation should work.

[Netduma Fraser]

Bert has explained what I was trying to say better.

[CrossFitKila717]

8 hours ago, Bert said:

There is instances where you can exploit lag (peaking advantage) but in a 1 on 1 head on fight you should have the advantage. 

 

You should also realize that ping is round trip. So if you have 4ms ping your shots reach the server after 2ms.

 

Also the cleaner your connection is and lower ping, the better lag compensation should work.

So better lag compensation, meaning better for them or me? 

Just trying to understand this all.......a lot of info out there. 

 

[Netduma Fraser]

The lower the ping the better advantage you have

[CrossFitKila717]

7 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

The lower the ping the better advantage you have

I’m really trying to not be rude or anything but how can you make it sound so simple when there’s tons of posts on here stating otherwise? I myself just got done saying that I have 4ms ping to the server in the Geo while at the same time, shoot first die first! 

So apparently there’s A LOT more to it.......& no, it’s not my lines, isp or settings. I’ve been using the Duma for over 2 years so I’ve pretty much exhausted every option. 

I wish it was as simple as you make it sound.....everyone with a Duma would be CODGODS! 

 

[bagsta69]

Have you tried pingplotter at different times of day or for a long period of time to several different servers?  I have found in the past it to be a very helpful tool when my connection and ping etc looked amazing it turned out I had loads of spikes caused by dodgy filters. Replaced filters and all good 

[CrossFitKila717]

Yes sir, I run PingPlotter during gameplay & it’s a stable ping always. It just seems more lobby/player dependent since it’s so inconsistent. I’ll have great hit detection then goes to garbage. Settings literally don’t seem to matter when this happens......yet EVERYTHING shows that my gameplay should be perfect, according to PingPlotter, Duma etc. 

Maybe I’m just hoping for too much. 

[N3CR0]

3 hours ago, CrossFitKila717 said:

Yes sir, I run PingPlotter during gameplay & it’s a stable ping always. It just seems more lobby/player dependent since it’s so inconsistent. I’ll have great hit detection then goes to garbage. Settings literally don’t seem to matter when this happens......yet EVERYTHING shows that my gameplay should be perfect, according to PingPlotter, Duma etc. 

Maybe I’m just hoping for too much. 

I'm telling ya its the servers dude. I had one match last night where I was 17-0, finished the match 26 - 14. Almost every one of my deaths were 'shoot first, die first'.

I even put several shots at close range with my Mx9 into someones back for them to turn on me and one shot me with an ICR of all things!

I too run PingPlotter while playing and got 0 spikes and no packet loss in that match.

[Netduma Alex]

15 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

The lower the ping the better advantage you have

In general that's the rule, but there are some exploits, as mentioned in this thread, regarding throttling the connection to make the server compensate you in an unfair way. Attempting to create a bad connection on purpose seems kind of dodgy to me though.

In the vast majority of cases you're better off with a better ping, but some games use Lag Compensation to try and create a fair playing field for people with all sorts of connections. The ability to trick it by throttling your connection is a fluke, and certainly not something intended by the developers.

[Bert]

Not even throttling but there is instances where the lagger can gain the advantage simply due to in game mechanics.

 

If I play at 150ms and you at 4ms. Assume the game has approx. 50ms interpolation lag for 60Hz servers.

 

We are playing on Freqency. You run through the middle, I camp one of the hallways on either side of the map. As soon as I come out of cover and aim and shoot at you, this needs to be put in an update by my console, 0-16ms, send to the server, which takes 75ms, they need to process it in the master gamestate, which takes 0-16ms in theory (time between 1 update) then it gets send to your console, which takes 2ms. Then this gets processed by your client, 50-83ms interpolation lag (time between updates and frame rounding. in the best case it takes 127ms for me to be visible on your screen, worst case it will take 192ms. Average, 160ms.  If I use a gun that kills in 300 ms I can have killed you before you finished raising your gun. 

 

Also in the above example, in CoD damage is dealt directly, so there is no interpolation delay, but there is a delay for it going in the update to the server, 0-16ms. So actually you would receive damage after just  0+75+0+2 = 77ms best case, or 16 (update rate)+75+16+2+32(frame rounding) = 141ms. So you can actually start recieving damage or be instakilled before I even appear on your screen fully. Also, my shots lag but register at the server after 75ms best or 107ms worst case scenario.

 

What a lot of people forget that with high latency connections, that it gives the lagger a window to shoot at you without having flinch, because you can't shoot back yet. Where it hurts him is that hitmarkers will come at a delay.

 

If situation above was reversed. 

You would come out of cover and this would be visible to me after 2+0+75+50 = 127ms best case or 16+2+16+75+83 = 192ms. Same numbers. But you fire and your shots hit at the server in 2ms best or 18ms worst case scenario. So I would already be dead at the server before I even see you moving.

 

Now 2 players that both  have 4ms to the server:

Best case for coming out of cover: 0+2+0+2+50 = 54ms

Worst case for coming out of cover 16+2+16+83 = 117ms

Average, 85ms delay.

 

You you see, it's not just your ping, but the other guy's ping plays a big role in the gunfight.

 

And this is assuming clean connections which is usually not the case in a online environment. And a server that is not limited by CPU cycles etc etc.

If you do the math for LAN with no latency then you will see that it's still not 100% fair.

 

In reality. Most of the times latency is not symmetrical. And game updates are not recieved in exact 16ms intervals etc. Server can be at max capacity. It can go on forever.

 

Low ping just means that you have the lowest possible path to the server. Less hops in between so the least chance of something going wrong. You have the advantage when coming out of cover and in straight up fights. But there is times where you are disadvantaged.

[CrossFitKila717]

7 hours ago, Bert said:

Not even throttling but there is instances where the lagger can gain the advantage simply due to in game mechanics.

 

If I play at 150ms and you at 4ms. Assume the game has approx. 50ms interpolation lag for 60Hz servers.

 

We are playing on Freqency. You run through the middle, I camp one of the hallways on either side of the map. As soon as I come out of cover and aim and shoot at you, this needs to be put in an update by my console, 0-16ms, send to the server, which takes 75ms, they need to process it in the master gamestate, which takes 0-16ms in theory (time between 1 update) then it gets send to your console, which takes 2ms. Then this gets processed by your client, 50-83ms interpolation lag (time between updates and frame rounding. in the best case it takes 127ms for me to be visible on your screen, worst case it will take 192ms. Average, 160ms.  If I use a gun that kills in 300 ms I can have killed you before you finished raising your gun. 

 

Also in the above example, in CoD damage is dealt directly, so there is no interpolation delay, but there is a delay for it going in the update to the server, 0-16ms. So actually you would receive damage after just  0+75+0+2 = 77ms best case, or 16 (update rate)+75+16+2+32(frame rounding) = 141ms. So you can actually start recieving damage or be instakilled before I even appear on your screen fully. Also, my shots lag but register at the server after 75ms best or 107ms worst case scenario.

 

What a lot of people forget that with high latency connections, that it gives the lagger a window to shoot at you without having flinch, because you can't shoot back yet. Where it hurts him is that hitmarkers will come at a delay.

 

If situation above was reversed. 

You would come out of cover and this would be visible to me after 2+0+75+50 = 127ms best case or 16+2+16+75+83 = 192ms. Same numbers. But you fire and your shots hit at the server in 2ms best or 18ms worst case scenario. So I would already be dead at the server before I even see you moving.

 

Now 2 players that both  have 4ms to the server:

Best case for coming out of cover: 0+2+0+2+50 = 54ms

Worst case for coming out of cover 16+2+16+83 = 117ms

Average, 85ms delay.

 

You you see, it's not just your ping, but the other guy's ping plays a big role in the gunfight.

 

And this is assuming clean connections which is usually not the case in a online environment. And a server that is not limited by CPU cycles etc etc.

If you do the math for LAN with no latency then you will see that it's still not 100% fair.

 

In reality. Most of the times latency is not symmetrical. And game updates are not recieved in exact 16ms intervals etc. Server can be at max capacity. It can go on forever.

 

Low ping just means that you have the lowest possible path to the server. Less hops in between so the least chance of something going wrong. You have the advantage when coming out of cover and in straight up fights. But there is times where you are disadvantaged.

Wow, thank you for the time in writing that! Very awesome. I don’t fully understand all of the mechanics  but I definitely get the point.......so basically, I’m still better off with obtaining the lowest ping server possible, correct? So if I’m playing & the Geo says I’m connected to a server that’s 4 - 5ms, that’s best case scenario? Or do you think forcing a server of about 30–40ms is more ideal due to what you said above....maybe compensate for some of those mechanics that would otherwise be in the opponent’s favor?

I guess I’m just looking for an “end point” in knowing that whatever my setup is, it’s the best that I can do, so I’m not chasing settings all over the place that make no difference. This is tough with so many variables & limited knowledge. 

Speaking of knowledge, you obviously got this figured out......what book or books do you recommend that could educate me on all this?

Thanks!

[Zennon]

Bert, It so so good to see someone understanding the variables, its an on line environment, die shrug it off and use your confidence in the next gun fight take you to a kill. Anger at so called bullshit gets you nowhere