Think i'm done...

[slashformayor]

Can i do the test by plugging the laptop into the same port the R1 is in now and using the superhub in modem mode. I've just set up all my devices onto the new network.

[Zennon]

Yes that should work.

[slashformayor]

Yes that should work.

Right, tested an array of configs tonight.

 

When running direct to the superhub the PL disappears. When running R1 to superhub in modem only the PL returns. I have tried different cables in between laptop and R1 and also R1 to Superhub with the same results. So the problem seems to be with the superhub itself, as when i run direct to it there is no PL. If it were a problem with the connection to the house the surely the problem would persist in either configuration. Unless the R1 is giving the PL?

 

Not sure how to progress.

 

Has it happens i had a quick game this afternoon (2pm ish) and bloody hell, i only played one game, but the difference was unbelievable compared to last night. I went 24 and 9! Which while is not awesome to alot of people, i was streaming to my laptop and this was during the PL experienced above?!

[slashformayor]

I wanted to update the thread since my last post.

 

The TL;DR of the above is that i was having difficulty in setting up my router/modem to a configuration that suited me, in that i predominantly stream my xbox upstairs to my laptop, which worked perfectly with my Virgin Superhub, but obviously i lose out on the benefits of using the Duma.

 

2 months on. From the results i gave in my previous posts it turns out that me, along with almost everyone else on Virgin Media, are suffering with a major jitter problem. I very very nearly pulled the plug on it all, and i could have either cancelled my Virgin Media account, or sold the Duma on, because whats the point of using it on a cack connection right? I have decided to stay with VM. The hassle in swapping, the chance of me having the same problem with a different ISP due to me living at least 3 miles from the nearest exchange with no guarenteed FTTC connection, and the cost to speed means that i would have to suck it up.

 

I have put the SH in modem only mode and using the Duma's as the primary router. I have invested in a pair of TPLink 1200+ powerlines for upstairs. Not ideal, but so far there have been no dropouts, no lag, and i can stream in highest quality for hours without a problem. I originally purchased a pair of 1200+ powerlines with wifi extender built in, but these turned out to be fruitless and caused more problems than they solved. I think i must live in a crowded wifi area, as inssider finds close to 10 broadcasts in different channels (only one other in 5ghz though).

 

So far so good then. Only needed one reboot of the R1 since then, as no new devices could connect.

 

If there is one feature i would love to see in the future though, it would be the ability to not join games that are already in progress. Nothing worse than joining a game on the losing side (as previous players have quit) with a score of 15 to 97 or whatever, and the enemy have all their scorestreaks out etc. Very annoying. I know the loss does not count towards your stats, but tbh, i don't care. My problem is that it takes bloody ages to load every screen in between, and all i want to do is play. At least if i join a lobby before the game starts the team is balanced, whereas if i join a game in progress the teams are not, and i'm just joining an open spot in order to make numbers up. Don't even know if this is possible, and is probably only something the game developers can implement.

 

So yeah, i still have the Duma and i am waiting for my contract with VM to end before i go any further with my ISP search.

[Netduma Fraser]

Thanks for the feedback and sounds like you're sort of okay for the moment which is great. 

 

I'm not sure if it would be possible to implement that feature - I would guess not but can look into it.

[fuzzy clam]

@ slashformayor...hope you get your ISP issue sorted out and hopefully you ran a lot more tests on PP to verify exactly what the issue is.

 

And I don't think Netduma can do anything about your request to not be thrown into games already in progress.That is all in the game nothing to do with the router or anything them can implement to help with that situation,again that's all in the matchmaking ( or should we call it filling in the empty spaces in lobbies ) in the actual game.But I can assure you no matter which developer...IW,3arc etc they won't implement that feature as we'd be playing in lobbies every game that were 2 V 6,even more than we do already.

[Yam Yam]

Everyone on Virgin, I notice when you try & configure your Superhub from Router mode to Modem mode that the bpm monitor sky-rockets and shows ping/jitter blasting through the top of the graph... I found out a little tweak that can bring those spikes back down.

 

If you look at ColonicBoom's BQM, this is a prime example.

 

What you need to do is, WITHOUT pulling out the power to the Superhub, just unscrew the white coaxial cable from the Superhub and leave this out for approx 1 minute, now screw it back in and wait for it to sync.

You should find that the Superhub will connect to a different set of download streams this time, now check your Broadband Quality Metre and see if it has returned to showing lower ping like you see in ColonicBoom's BQM before he rebooted in the first place.

 

This works 100%, I tried it many times when sorting my own mess out months ago & also as my Sister-in-law was getting nowhere talking to Virgin's script-reading customer services, she tried & it worked first time 

 

If nothing changes for you, just unscrew the coaxial cable again but this time wait a little longer before screwing back in. This will cause the Superhub to try & connect to a different download stream. Rebooting the Superhub is like a lottery & will more than likely revert back to those atrocious spikes.

[slashformayor]

Everyone on Virgin, I notice when you try & configure your Superhub from Router mode to Modem mode that the bpm monitor sky-rockets and shows ping/jitter blasting through the top of the graph... I found out a little tweak that can bring those spikes back down.

 

If you look at ColonicBoom's BQM, this is a prime example.

 

What you need to do is, WITHOUT pulling out the power to the Superhub, just unscrew the white coaxial cable from the Superhub and leave this out for approx 1 minute, now screw it back in and wait for it to sync.

You should find that the Superhub will connect to a different set of download streams this time, now check your Broadband Quality Metre and see if it has returned to showing lower ping like you see in ColonicBoom's BQM before he rebooted in the first place.

 

This works 100%, I tried it many times when sorting my own mess out months ago & also as my Sister-in-law was getting nowhere talking to Virgin's script-reading customer services, she tried & it worked first time 

 

If nothing changes for you, just unscrew the coaxial cable again but this time wait a little longer before screwing back in. This will cause the Superhub to try & connect to a different download stream. Rebooting the Superhub is like a lottery & will more than likely revert back to those atrocious spikes.

Thanks for this. I am about to try this out of interest more than anything else as it seems an easy enough procedure.

 

I have a ping test for the last 24 hours here:

 

Will update with another graph after the disconnect.

[slashformayor]

Everyone on Virgin, I notice when you try & configure your Superhub from Router mode to Modem mode that the bpm monitor sky-rockets and shows ping/jitter blasting through the top of the graph... I found out a little tweak that can bring those spikes back down.

 

If you look at ColonicBoom's BQM, this is a prime example.

 

What you need to do is, WITHOUT pulling out the power to the Superhub, just unscrew the white coaxial cable from the Superhub and leave this out for approx 1 minute, now screw it back in and wait for it to sync.

You should find that the Superhub will connect to a different set of download streams this time, now check your Broadband Quality Metre and see if it has returned to showing lower ping like you see in ColonicBoom's BQM before he rebooted in the first place.

 

This works 100%, I tried it many times when sorting my own mess out months ago & also as my Sister-in-law was getting nowhere talking to Virgin's script-reading customer services, she tried & it worked first time 

 

If nothing changes for you, just unscrew the coaxial cable again but this time wait a little longer before screwing back in. This will cause the Superhub to try & connect to a different download stream. Rebooting the Superhub is like a lottery & will more than likely revert back to those atrocious spikes.

Below is a graph of the last 24 hours, after the above procedure. As you can see, i played for less than an hour between 8 and 10 pm, exactly as the latency and packet loss kick in, and then it goes back to normal when i had had enough of getting destroyed and turned it off. As a rule though, i cannot see any difference.

 

[ColonicBoom]

Everyone on Virgin, I notice when you try & configure your Superhub from Router mode to Modem mode that the bpm monitor sky-rockets and shows ping/jitter blasting through the top of the graph... I found out a little tweak that can bring those spikes back down.

 

If you look at ColonicBoom's BQM, this is a prime example.

 

What you need to do is, WITHOUT pulling out the power to the Superhub, just unscrew the white coaxial cable from the Superhub and leave this out for approx 1 minute, now screw it back in and wait for it to sync.

You should find that the Superhub will connect to a different set of download streams this time, now check your Broadband Quality Metre and see if it has returned to showing lower ping like you see in ColonicBoom's BQM before he rebooted in the first place.

 

You're mistaking the change shown in my graph for something it was not.

 

The sky-rocketing ping is not from where I switched from Router mode to Modem mode at all.

 

The graph shows me changing from a Superhub 2 (I think it was a 2) on the 60mb package, to the Superhub 3 (the white one) on the 150mb package.

[Netduma Fraser]

Could you just provide a quick summary of your setup/settings so I can best advise?

[slashformayor]

I have had a letter through this morning from the kind people at Virgin Media, telling me that my monthly bill will be increasing yet again by £3.49 a month! This will be the 3rd or 4th in as little as 3 years to my knowledge.

 

Absolutely fed up of them as a company, and i am now looking to change provider. As i have only ever used VM for my broadband and TV, it's going to take some getting used to.

 

I am thinking of BT Infinity for my internet, and maybe either BT for the TV or stick with Freesat as i have a built in tuner on the tv and can record to USB.

 

I would appreciate any thoughts people have in regards to the best ISP, i live approx 1.7km from the Sedgley data centre in the West Midlands.

[ColonicBoom]

Yep, I got sick of those price hikes too. On top of the terrible connection they provided me for gaming and the fact that my internet and tv would go down completely a few times a month for 24 hours at a time, it just takes the piss.

 

BT/Sky or anyone on their network is a good shout (better at least) as far as I know, you'll lose some bandwidth no doubt but you will very likely get a much more stable connection for gaming.

I went down from 150mb/10mb  to 28mb/7mb but it was the best decision I could have made as far as gaming goes and it's still enough bandwidth for my house regardless. I really wish I'd done it a long time ago.

 

I kept my tivo with Virgin and just swapped my phone and internet over - I simply couldn't be arsed to learn how to use a different recordy-box for TV (yeh, I'm lazy) and I liked the extra 'tuner(s)'.

But I grilled Virgin so hard on the phone that I pay less than a new customer would pay with the new-customer-discount, which helps.

 

I can't say what isp will provide the best service for your area but even if you know someone in the same area or town or village, it won't mean that your connection will be anything like their own. My mate is a few hundred yards around the corner from me but is on a different fibre cab, he get more than double my speeds.

Your best bet is to go round to your neighbours' houses, plug an ethernet cable into their router, tell them to piss off* and make you a cuppa for 10 minutes and run Ping Plotter and speedtest (not at the same time, so you don't slam the bandwidth while you're using PP) whilst you talk to them about their dog or something. I did that to my neighbours on both sides of my house and a few on the other side of the road too so all were in closest proximity to my house.

 

*I just turned up and knocked on their door in the afternoon and told them I was having internet problems, asked:

Have you been having problems?

Who do you use?

How do you find it?

Have you had any problems?

Would you mind if I run a couple of quick tests on it at some point one evening (for peak-time testing)?

They all invited me over that evening to run the tests and I did all five one after the other.

I got to test all the major ISPs and surprise surprise Virgin was the only shit-show I found in my street.

[RL317]

I have had a letter through this morning from the kind people at Virgin Media, telling me that my monthly bill will be increasing yet again by £3.49 a month! This will be the 3rd or 4th in as little as 3 years to my knowledge.

Just got this letter myself. I've been considering changing ISPs but as I had to sign a new contract when I moved house and got an upgrade with reinstallation, I'd have had to wait until the contract was up or shell out for early cancellation fees. Instead this letter tells me that instead of having to pay more per month yet again (it's only just gone up £6 a month when I moved from 50mb to 100mb), I can leave with no charge before the 1st November. Great timing

 

I'd been having issues with my modem and stupid high first hop jitter, which wasn't resolved after a month of testing with different ports, cables and finally a new modem, so I guess it's time to get myself on fibre.

 

Although, knowing my luck, I'll pick an ISP that's popular in my area and face congestion issues anyway lol

[ColonicBoom]

Although, knowing my luck, I'll pick an ISP that's popular in my area and face congestion issues anyway lol

 

That's exactly why I tested all my neighbours' lines at peak time, to compare the congestion (and general line quality).

If you have problems like I did on Virgin then virtually anything is better anyway.

[Yam Yam]

You're mistaking the change shown in my graph for something it was not.

 

The sky-rocketing ping is not from where I switched from Router mode to Modem mode at all.

 

The graph shows me changing from a Superhub 2 (I think it was a 2) on the 60mb package, to the Superhub 3 (the white one) on the 150mb package.

 

What I meant was, every time you reboot the Super Hub3 (also happened on SH2ac) with both power and coaxial connected, the graph will 9 times out of 10 go sky high just like yours did when you changed modems over because it locks onto a crap download stream... Then we are advised by Virgin Forum guru's like 'legacy1' to always use modem mode. Modem mode is (so far) worse than Router mode on the SHub3 as the base ping is higher which doesn't make sense... well, nothing makes sense with Virgin half the time.

 

When you disconnect just the coax cable the modem will auto search for another frequency and run through its frequency table from the lowest to highest, you could see this live if you were to connect through hyper terminal.

All Virgin costomers are told not to complain about the hardware & just use modem mode with your own 3rd party router if it bothers you.

 

Thats when I noticed you had a similar experience to me (the sky high lag), I have graphs saved where I've pulled the coax out, left it for a while and got a ping base back down to earth and also rebooting it normaly and it would return to sky high ping.

 

Sorry Colonic Boom, I have mentioned a few times in my earlier posts that I'm not the best at explaining things and thats why it sounds confusing,

 at least I get the big picture

[ColonicBoom]

Then we are advised by Virgin Forum guru's like 'legacy1' to always use modem mode. Modem mode is (so far) worse than Router mode on the SHub3 as the base ping is higher which doesn't make sense... well, nothing makes sense with Virgin half the time.

 

I found a good resolution to Virgin's erratic ping and lag issues...

I changed to a different ISP 

 

The difference is incredible.

 

I should add that the reason I 'upgraded' from the 60mb package to the 150mb package was because my gaming became unplayable overnight (and didn't return to normal after a week), Virgin's suggestion was the 'free upgrade'. It was about to become mandatory anyway.

So my ping sky-rocketed and became extremely unstable all on it's own, I would like to have tested your idea but I'm long gone from Virgin now.

 

I'd be interested to know if it makes any difference - if you're going to test it Slash..?

I doubt very much that it would have made games playable on my line though, I literally couldn't walk about in BO3.

[Yam Yam]

I wouldn't say it made gaming great again, I'm still going through the motions now but its more stable than before but as you & others say, its best to stay away from Virgin Media altogether.

 

The only thing it fixed was the difference between 1000ms+ ping and something back down to Earth around 30-40ms.

I have quite a few images saved plus all my old ip bqm's on thinkbroadband as I needed all the evidence I could get my hands on to prove them wrong. They show that there's a massive improvment when I was tinkering

 

Someone mentioned that their adverts said 'best for gaming' etc etc. That advert was banned... In fact, almost all of Virgins adverts claiming faster, better, quality internet have all been banned.

 

When I was first given the SHub3 it was only connected to 8 download & 2 upload streams, around a month (or two) later, a new firmware was sent out and I noticed it was now connected to 12 download & 4 upload streams, this fw update 'seemed' to make my bqm more stable but as you can see below, my bqm is far from 'stable'.

[ColonicBoom]

 

 

Someone mentioned that their adverts said 'best for gaming' etc etc. That advert was banned...

 

this fw update 'seemed' to make my bqm more stable but as you can see below, my bqm is far from 'stable'.

 

I remember that 'best for gaming' advert (and a couple of others) disappearing as well.

I'm amazed that they can get away with pretending that a 'gaming package' with a bit of extra upload is going to fix their problems.

 

It's ridiculous that Ofcom (Communications Regulator for anyone not UK based) don't stamp out all of the shit that all of these companies spew about broadband 'speeds' (and phone coverage, etc), they seem to do nothing until complaints are raised by the competition.

They must not have anyone even remotely capable working there, nevermind an expert.

 

Yours is pretty unstable, mine was basically an entire graph of yellow. Like a custard mountain range.

I don't think mine had that wobble in the evening though, where your 'min latency' increases.

[bagsta69]

Im with BT infinity and get 29 down and 6-7 up but the pingplotter graph line is like a dead man, pretty much totally flat morning noon and night. Im just crap at the games. lol

Average ping to twitter and the BBC is 10MS with zero packet loss/jitter

[abc123]

i'm jealous

[ColonicBoom]

Im with BT infinity and get 29 down and 6-7 up but the pingplotter graph line is like a dead man, pretty much totally flat morning noon and night. Im just crap at the games. lol

Average ping to twitter and the BBC is 10MS with zero packet loss/jitter

 

Nice.

Mine is almost exactly the same as yours, 28.5 / 6.5.

It's a massive relief finally being able to stop stressing over it.

Got to give a shout out to the Dr for spending God knows how long explaining it all to me about it and forcing him to repeat himself over and over and over until it finally sunk in.

[slashformayor]

I found a good resolution to Virgin's erratic ping and lag issues...

I changed to a different ISP 

 

The difference is incredible.

 

I should add that the reason I 'upgraded' from the 60mb package to the 150mb package was because my gaming became unplayable overnight (and didn't return to normal after a week), Virgin's suggestion was the 'free upgrade'. It was about to become mandatory anyway.

So my ping sky-rocketed and became extremely unstable all on it's own, I would like to have tested your idea but I'm long gone from Virgin now.

 

I'd be interested to know if it makes any difference - if you're going to test it Slash..?

I doubt very much that it would have made games playable on my line though, I literally couldn't walk about in BO3.

Hi CB. i actually did the test, the results can be seen on the previous page. Using the thinkbroadband ping tester the difference went pretty much unnoticed. I did find that packet loss and an increase in ping went up as soon as i started playing BO3 one time though. Literally, it starts when i put the game on and stops when i turn it off. I did notice at the time as well that finding a game took longer than usual.

 

All in all, as i mentioned i'm looking to change ISP altogether. The only thing i will miss is my email address which i have had for a good many years now.

[slashformayor]

Hello everyone. Sorry for reviving an old post again, but as it is kind of relevant, i figured it would be better to keep this saga in one place.

 

You may be happy to hear that VM is no more. I have switched ISP to Sky as they had a cracking deal on their new Sky Q box. So i am basically on there top package (minus sports, cinema), Box Sets, Sky Q Mini, Fibre Max etc for £34 a month!

 

TV was installed within 4 days of signing up, and it's awesome. If you are on the shelf on switching to Sky Q, it definately has my vote. Compared to my Tivo box which could take upto 20 seconds to start playing something recorded, this is instant. The gui is ultra smooth and responsive too, the complete opposite of VM. The Mini Q allows us to watch everything we have recorded as well as live tv wirelessly, anywhere we set the box up, which again, compared to VM's very old box they provided is brilliant. Everything is smaller, sleeker and so quiet.

 

Anyway, nuff of blowing smoke up their ***, they installed fibre yesterday. I was at work, but the wife was at home and i had given her the run down on what i wanted, and how. The engineer phoned anyway and i told him directly what i wanted. Basically, the laster socket is located at the front of the house. We have one room (lounge diner) that is a through room and all my electronic equipment is currently located at the back of the house (allbeit in the same room). I told him i DID NOT want wires trailing the skirting board. I spent a great amount of time having the house plastered, new floors, new skirting etc. I currently have zero wires on show, even to my TV which is mounted above my fireplace. The engineer is not keen on moving the socket, giving me spiel about their wires being 'very thin' and hardly noticable when takced to the skirting.

After 2-3 minutes of listening to his waffle i told him not to bother. Just supply a new MK4 master socket with the in-built micro filters in place of the existing VM branded one, and i will run an extension to a slave box where i want later.

 

I get home tonight to find that he has completely removed the VM coax box AND master socket. Meaning i am paying for VM services but not able to receive them (30 days notice ends on the 2nd of next month). This also means that none of my gear has any internet as the R1 was connected to my superhub, which is now defunct. The only access i have now is completely wireless to the new Q hub. He did leave me some cable though to do the extension, but it is only single twisted pair.

 

Out of interest i did a speed test from my laptop and i was getting pings of 12ms, and speeds of 75mb/19mb, which is exactly as they advertised. So before he came i was under the assumption i would have a couple of weeks to sort out the connection from the back of the house to the front, turns out i need it doing a.s.a.p. I have some CAT 6 sheilded external cable to hand (50m), i'm thinking of chopping the ends off, buying another mk4 faceplate, using one twisted pair from the internet line, and another from the voice line, doubling them up at the back of the new master socket, back out the hole, up the front of the house, through the loft, down the back of the house, through the wall to the new faceplate. I should be able to use voice and ADSL lines from the new faceplate.

 

Couple of questions to end this mammoth post/rant;

1. Is this feasable? I'm yet to test the 50m cable for speed loss etc

2. How are people setting their R1 up with the new Q system, as i understand the Q hub is not actually required

3. Is the second MK4 faceplate needed? will splicing off the back bypass the microfilters etc?

4. Can i do away with the Q hub and use just the R1? I think i read you can with BT but not with Sky?

5. Can i use the single twisted pair for voice and ADSL? Or is it as above, one twisted pair for each line?

 

Sorry for the long post.

[slashformayor]

An update, as i didn't get any replies for my previous questions...

 

Although i have now changed ISP and my latency is much more stable...

 

However, now i am possibly in a worse situation than i was before switching. If you read above, the Openreach engineer decided he would not move my master socket at my request, and in fact left me about 30m of cable to do it myself. I tested the 50m of shielded Cat6 ethernet cable from laptop to router, and ping tests showed less than a ms, consistently. I then thought i would check the cable that the engineer left. I spliced it into the master socket (using the standard VM one), then connected the BT MK4 faceplate to the opposite end and connected the router up. It connected to the internet fine. After running a speedtest it showed that my speed was almost exactly cut in half! This is using their cable. Now granted, it wasn't fitted in situ, but rather rolled up on the floor. Good job i didn't use it i guess. So my current setup has my modem on the opposite side of the room to all my internet required devices (conoles, tv etc) and the only way i have found to connect is to run them through a set of 1200mps powerlines.

 

My problem now is that i am getting agressive latency from the powerlines it seems. Like spikes of 30ms with 60% packet loss agressive. Since all this testing i have found out that my Xbox now has a hardware fault with the wireless card, so i can only connect via a wired connection. There is currently nowhere for my R1 in the current setup, unless i connect it between my Xbox and Sky hub, meaning i won't get congestion control. I still get the same latency by pinging the Xbox from the router side, or by pinging the router from the Xbox side. Confusing as these powerlines worked awesome when i had them connected upstairs to down, whereas they are only 8 meters away on the same ring and i get this packet loss?!

 

Can anyone shed any light for me, because i am well annoyed at Openreach for not moving the master socket. The fact is he took a new line from the top of the house, to the bottom at the front, so it would not have been much work to re-route it through the loft to the back of the house.

 

Would the naff speed from the STP cable the engineer left me be resolved by soldering rather than using those push fit wire taps? I really want to try and get this sorted before the weather really sets in. Not only this, does anyone use Sky Q with their Duma? How did you set it up, did you remove the Sky hub completely?