Long Story Short.....

[CrossFitKila717]

So, just to clarify & to keep it simple since there’s so many scenarios, etc involved with setups (internet/hardware/Duma settings).........here’s the question.....if I’m running & monitoring PingPlotter at the same time as I’m playing BO4, WW2 etc, & my graph shows a ping of around 6, with fluctuations of only about 1-2ms (very tight line), this is best case scenario, correct? As in, my network is optimal during gameplay, which is what really matters. I ask because even with this perfect stability I still “seem to” experience lag at times.

 I have AT&T Fiber 300/300 (using their BGW210-700 Gateway) & this is the case with no Congestion Control. I’m basically using Duma for the GEO. 

Everything LOOKS great on the diagnostics........just hate chasing settings if nothing more can be done. 

Thanks as always!

[Netduma Alex]

Are there any other devices on your network that could be starting downloads while you're playing? If you seem to experience lag at times, unless it's a line problem, I would imagine it's something else in your house.

[N3CR0]

Its their servers no doubt.

I've been having a really crappy time lately with lag (PingPlotter shows 0 spikes)

Honestly, hardly anyone plays BOps4 now. Even with an open NAT and no geo filter, takes me sometimes 30 secs to actually find a match.

[Netduma Alex]

Well that always happens with CoD, as hype builds for the next one, people stop playing the previous one.

[BIG__DOG]

I have found that sbmm screws you over on cod, especially in bo4. You win a game or 2 in a row, maybe 3 and then boooom you cant hit sh!t and everyone seems to be ahead of you (out of sync). I am not the onl;y one in this forum who subscribes to this theory as it happens so regularly.

[CrossFitKila717]

7 hours ago, Netduma Alex said:

Are there any other devices on your network that could be starting downloads while you're playing? If you seem to experience lag at times, unless it's a line problem, I would imagine it's something else in your house.

I’ve got Fiber 300/300 so “even if” my wife is watching Netflix, which is at most the only other thing going on, it wouldn’t even scratch the surface. That’s why I don’t feel I need the CC, Switch or any type of QOS at this time......even you guys at Duma say I don’t need it, since original firmware would have me use Super Turbo Mode and disable it for my speeds, only relying on geo. I was just asking / verifying that if I have a solid & stable line (low to no jitter) & a low ping, that in “theory” my gameplay should be superb? Since a stable line & low ping connection is what the Duma is trying to accomplish. I’m just tired of chasing settings if this is as good as it gets. Lol 😂 

The main question is does the PingPlotter graph truly reflect gameplay efficiency (ie lag, missing bullets etc)? As much emphasis as we put on trying to get that stable connection, it just seems as though there a lot behind the scenes that we can’t fix  

Hope that makes sense?

[Netduma Fraser]

Yeah you are fine on the QoS/Ping Plotter front. Ping Plotter gives you a great idea of how stable your connection is so if it's low and steady than everything is good on your side. The issue is probably coming from the servers your connected to or potentially what has been eluded to above. Peak times can be particularly bad for server lag but it sounds like it's nothing to do with you as your connection is optimal.

[N3CR0]

31 minutes ago, CrossFitKila717 said:

I’ve got Fiber 300/300 so “even if” my wife is watching Netflix, which is at most the only other thing going on, it wouldn’t even scratch the surface. That’s why I don’t feel I need the CC, Switch or any type of QOS at this time......even you guys at Duma say I don’t need it, since original firmware would have me use Super Turbo Mode and disable it for my speeds, only relying on geo. I was just asking / verifying that if I have a solid & stable line (low to no jitter) & a low ping, that in “theory” my gameplay should be superb? Since a stable line & low ping connection is what the Duma is trying to accomplish. I’m just tired of chasing settings if this is as good as it gets. Lol 😂 

The main question is does the PingPlotter graph truly reflect gameplay efficiency (ie lag, missing bullets etc)? As much emphasis as we put on trying to get that stable connection, it just seems as though there a lot behind the scenes that we can’t fix  

Hope that makes sense?

99% of the time I am the only one using my connection when I play CoD... PingPlotter shows complete stability even with the QoS off but guess what, CoD games play like crap without it.

Low ping, low jitter etc don't seem to matter (every other game of course it does but not in CoD)

Like I said... the servers and netcode are bloody awful on CoD games... for me at least WW2 and BOps4 have been the worse. IW I found consistency, last two CoD games I've found none. What works one day won't the next.

 

[CrossFitKila717]

25 minutes ago, N3CR0 said:

99% of the time I am the only one using my connection when I play CoD... PingPlotter shows complete stability even with the QoS off but guess what, CoD games play like crap without it.

Low ping, low jitter etc don't seem to matter (every other game of course it does but not in CoD)

Like I said... the servers and netcode are bloody awful on CoD games... for me at least WW2 and BOps4 have been the worse. IW I found consistency, last two CoD games I've found none. What works one day won't the next.

 

Exactly how I feel!! 😎

[N3CR0]

8 minutes ago, CrossFitKila717 said:

Exactly how I feel!! 😎

Like I said... give up chasing settings coz you're never gonna hit the right spot.

[Bert]

You can't control traffic congestion between you and the server, or their serverload and traffic at the server uplink. The server is no actual server but a cloud running many other application and many users are using it. That is where lag comes from most of the time. Even if your ping shows perfectly stable you can still be lagging. Because your ping request goes trough fine but UDP is beeing buffered or dropped.

 

Plus CoD games by nature have a bit of desync due to interpolation lag. High ping players make it worse. Players that have only a bad upload connection as in low bandwidth often have a advantage themselves but you end up on the short stick of that. You have certain players also fooling around with their connection to replicate this, choke their upstream bandwidth etc.

 

Some twich streamer was in my lobby the other day, melting everybody and he was the only one actually beeing able the kill me. Send him a message politely asking him to turn off his stream or fix his upload on connection as his UL/DL latency were clearly out of sync LOL.

[CrossFitKila717]

7 minutes ago, Bert said:

You can't control traffic congestion between you and the server, or their serverload and traffic at the server uplink. The server is no actual server but a cloud running many other application and many users are using it. That is where lag comes from most of the time. Even if your ping shows perfectly stable you can still be lagging. Because your ping request goes trough fine but UDP is beeing buffered or dropped.

 

Plus CoD games by nature have a bit of desync due to interpolation lag. High ping players make it worse. Players that have only a bad upload connection as in low bandwidth often have a advantage themselves but you end up on the short stick of that. You have certain players also fooling around with their connection to replicate this, choke their upstream bandwidth etc.

 

Some twich streamer was in my lobby the other day, melting everybody and he was the only one actually beeing able the kill me. Send him a message politely asking him to turn off his stream or fix his upload on connection as his UL/DL latency were clearly out of sync LOL.

Thanks for all the awesome insight! So when you say choke the upload, in essence that’s what we can do with the Duma correct........say, instead of 70%, I can pull slider down to 10%? But when I do that, isn’t that actually giving my console 90? A little confused on how it works. 

[Bert]

What they do is run their upload bandwidth so low, ie 256kb/s essentially creating their own bufferbloat upstream. This way you receive game packets just fine but outgoing is held up by your router or other device used for throttling. So in other words the server updates you, but you update the server at a delay so when you are rushing around you can see the other players but they are not able to see you just yet.

 

This also happens when a low upload connection starts streaming to Twitch etc.

[CrossFitKila717]

2 minutes ago, Bert said:

What they do is run their upload bandwidth so low, ie 256kb/s essentially creating their own bufferbloat upstream. This way you receive game packets just fine but outgoing is held up by your router or other device used for throttling. So in other words the server updates you, but you update the server at a delay so when you are rushing around you can see the other players but they are not able to see you just yet.

 

This also happens when a low upload connection starts streaming to Twitch etc.

Nice, not really! 😏. So that’s not done through the Duma’s Congestion Control then I assume......this sounds more in depth. 

[N3CR0]

I've tried what Bert is saying many times. Never worked for me. Not on BOps3, IW nor BOps4. I don't think it works that way but thats just from my experience.

In fact, iirc, lowering your bandwitch as much as 256k/s, you can't even connect to the CoD servers. I remember having trouble connecting when I tried lowering mine to 1mb.

Also, thats no good when you have 25+ devices connected to your router 😛 Gonna piss someone off when they try to connect and can't.

EDIT : In fact... just tried it... made no difference. I'm not even sponging, everyone still spots me as they should.

 

[CrossFitKila717]

8 hours ago, N3CR0 said:

I've tried what Bert is saying many times. Never worked for me. Not on BOps3, IW nor BOps4. I don't think it works that way but thats just from my experience.

In fact, iirc, lowering your bandwitch as much as 256k/s, you can't even connect to the CoD servers. I remember having trouble connecting when I tried lowering mine to 1mb.

Also, thats no good when you have 25+ devices connected to your router 😛 Gonna piss someone off when they try to connect and can't.

EDIT : In fact... just tried it... made no difference. I'm not even sponging, everyone still spots me as they should.

 

So are you doing this through the sliders on the Duma?

[Bert]

If you keep QoS active it will most likely not work for you as the router just dumps the other traffic. It really depends on the setup. Also when it works you need to adjust your playstyle it only works for very agressive players. You have to remember that if the other guy is around the corner first it works in your disadvantage.

Try turning QoS off and running a big upload.

 

There is more advanced ways of doing it involving a PC with shared connection but I considder it cheating so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Netduma Alex]

It's annoying when the problem occurs externally because there's nothing the router can do.

I think there are some ISPs that are specifically aimed at gaming, supposedly they route your packets in the quickest possible way instead of the most cost effective as most ISPs do. I don't know how effective it is, i've not tried.

[Bert]

The thing is just that the ISP can't always help it.

 

I am in the Netherlands at the moment playing on my 250/25 cable connection and normally I connect to Vultr in Amsterdam. Today though I had a unknown host designated as peer.

 

Turns out this is Internap cloud services in Amsterdam. I had some ping spikes and I ran a pingplotter log out of curiosity. As you can see on the picture, the actual bufferbloat occurs on the Internap Corporation network. Also there is another carrier between my ISP and Internap and that is Cogentco. When I connect to Choopa/Vultr that is not there. Instead its ISP -> NTT -> Vultr.

 

So a 2 different game servers in the same city with a totally different routing.

 

Some ISP's might specialize in low latency for gaming but if the backbone that they use has one bad hop it can already screw you over.