Finding the sweet setup spot [Need your input]

[LegendMask]

I was on the original Netduma R1 firmware and was having really good and nice success in terms of connections stability on black ops 4... and when I switched to the DUMA OS things went down hill (bare in mind I only did a quick standard setup), so I switched back to R1 Original firmware.

 

But of course being me wanting to switch to XR500 I have to go back again and give DUMA OS another fare try, so here I am.

 

First trouble I'm having while doing my setup is flashing cloud is I get the following "Error: The operation is taking longer than expected. Please briefly wait before using this R-App."

• I tried deleting my devices
• uncheck Auto Ping Host
• Clear Cache
• Use different browser
• Reset

But still no success, and I'm not sure how important flushing the cloud is.

 

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On the other hand Im happy with the ping plotter results, unless I'm missing something here are the results

 

 

EDIT: I did another test with multiple 4K 60fps videos playing in the background from YouTube

[BIG__DOG]

your ping is good, no question about that, but theres jitter on your line by the looks of it, especially in the 2nd pingplotter graph. Is that with sliders set at 100%? 

 

As for your clod issues, what firmware are you rinning on the XR500?

[LegendMask]

41 minutes ago, BIG__DOG said:

your ping is good, no question about that, but theres jitter on your line by the looks of it, especially in the 2nd pingplotter graph. Is that with sliders set at 100%? 

 

As for your clod issues, what firmware are you rinning on the XR500?

Oh I just noticed the red on the top (jitter) was just checking the graph itself 🤦‍♂️ my sliders are at 70% on both

 

Im running (R1 2.1.3.29) on Netduma R1

[BIG__DOG]

The jitter is the spikes in your graph, the more jitter the more spikes. The less jitter the lesser the spikes and smaller. If you have just installed pingplotter and are using the free version right click where it says hop>>>count>>>ip etc etc and select jitter from the drop down menu. This will allow you to see the jitter in milliseconds. I will do a graph of mine and show you as a comparison to a stable connection.

 

This is only a snapshot of my connection. My lad is uploading content to his youtube and this is how my connection is 24/7 as you can see it is very stable and no spikes.

[LegendMask]

Thanks Big Dog, I did some tweaks and changes and here are the results with 50% Down - 49% Upload  (PS: all tests were done when apparently the kids were watching Netflix upstairs)

 

I included DSL reports test (although I know you guys hate it) so Im sorry, and its just for reference as well 😊

 

 

[BIG__DOG]

the jitter is not great, but it's not the worse, but it is very borderline especially for gaming and in particular fps games. Are you testing over ethernet or wireless ?

[LegendMask]

Over ethernet I never game with wireless.... I tried different new ethernet cables just to eliminate cables issues

[carl0024]

That jitter could be an ISP problem. It's minimal. But jeesh I'd hate to game on that line.

@LegendMask when you were on OG netduma r1 preemptive. Did you have similar pingplotter results

[LegendMask]

@carl0024

interesting I have never tried ping plotter on original Netduma firmware... I should give it a try

[carl0024]

Yea bro. If I'm going to be honest. Pre emptive is better in gaming for me. Hit reg is better. Just my two cents. But Duma OS is more consistent good games. But hitreg isn't as snappy like pre emptive. With pre emptive, games are either really good. Or I could be the one in the receiving end ' one second behind ' but hitreg is still amazing

[Netduma Admin]

@LegendMask - are you still getting that Error message? If so, could you make sure you're on the latest firmware: http://forum.netduma.com/forum/106-latest-firmwares/

If it continues, then a factory reset might be required to get round the problem.

Let us know if you want any help with QoS etc. There's a full setup guide here, but it sounds like you know what you're doing! http://support.netduma.com/en/support/solutions/articles/16000077073-dumaos-optimal-settings-guide-qos

[LegendMask]

10 hours ago, carl0024 said:

Yea bro. If I'm going to be honest. Pre emptive is better in gaming for me. Hit reg is better. Just my two cents. But Duma OS is more consistent good games. But hitreg isn't as snappy like pre emptive. With pre emptive, games are either really good. Or I could be the one in the receiving end ' one second behind ' but hitreg is still amazing

Couldn't agree with you more, but honestly my second run with DumaOS has been better than first time (not as good as R1 when its on its best behavior) but more consistent.

Now with that in mind and having jitter on my line, there is a big potential if I can solve this problem things should be way better.

 

1 hour ago, Netduma Admin said:

@LegendMask - are you still getting that Error message? If so, could you make sure you're on the latest firmware: http://forum.netduma.com/forum/106-latest-firmwares/

If it continues, then a factory reset might be required to get round the problem.

Let us know if you want any help with QoS etc. There's a full setup guide here, but it sounds like you know what you're doing! http://support.netduma.com/en/support/solutions/articles/16000077073-dumaos-optimal-settings-guide-qos

I'm running the latest version (R1 2.1.3.2 ), unfortunately I did factory reset and even downgraded my firmware to original R1, then back to latest version of DumaOS and still same.

If nothing works, I might try to downgrade again, then upgrade once more (3rd is a charm)

[Zippy]

Op what I also would do is take your router completely out of the picture and run a ping plotter test directly from modem.. See if that jitter is present then also.. That way you can narrow things down one by one..  If that same jitter is present you could either have a bad modem or your line may not be up to par.. Process of elimination..  See if there is any pattern to your jitter also by comparing ping plotter results.. Sometimes if there is a pattern then it usually is a hardware problem like a modem.. Not always of course but likely.. Usually a bad line is random jitter with really no pattern but just a lot of jitter.. In worst case scenarios one could have a bad modem and bad line together.. But hopefully that isn't your case.. Hope this makes somewhat sense.. Good luck!

Zippy.

[bbursley]

I have never been able to get my ping plotter to look good while using DumaOS tbh. My line looks great when idle, but even at 70/70 I still don’t get even an A quality rating, and my line looks like the one you showed where it’s jittery kinda. Only reactive algorithm ever gave me A’s all accross, that or using something like fq_codel on ddwrt. 

[LegendMask]

@bbursley I just did a test with connection being connected directly to my ISP router, gonna do another test with R7000 running OpenWRT and probably post the results for comparison.

 

@Zippy You got it buddy here are the results (Again just did a test on dslreports as well for reference)

 

 

 

 

 

[Zippy]

Op from what im seeing id say your router is the issue.. Because when your connected directly to your modem your results are way more stable.. Unless im missing something your DumaOS isn't working..  And tbh I have the very same issues using DumaOS.. Idk what it is but currently when I use my XR500 my jitter is coming from my XR500.. And my spikes become worse using it no matter what I set my sliders too.. Im seeing more and more people posting on here with very odd similarities.. And even more saying things like my R1 worked better then my XR500.. And some saying there R1 works better with older firmware.. So at this point idk what really is going on! Theres way to many reporting things like this..  Ive hooked my ASUS backup a few times to compare things and my ASUS does a way better job at bufferbloat for me.. But I would also bet if my DumaOS was working for me my results would be fantastic.. I either have a bad XR500 or the firmware isn't right or something is corrupted.. At this stage all I can share is that my XR500 is the problem for me.. Ive tried two routers I have here as backups.. One is a ASUS and one is a Linksys.. Both are out performing my XR500 hands down.. And I know DumaOS should be superior..

Zippy.

[LegendMask]

@Zippy Thanks for sharing your post, I will keep sharing my results, do more tests and hopefully we can solve the issue if it is indeed the router in the first place.

 

PS: I must say regardless on the readings on those results. Using DumaOS by far have yield the best gaming experience next to R1 Original firmware, so please keep this in mind.

 

Meanwhile here is another test using OpenWRT on R7000 with fq_codel

 

 

 

 

 

[Zippy]

You still have some very good results using alternative firmware's.. And don't get me wrong.. When I first had my XR500 it worked amazing for gaming.. Now fast forward 7 months and it has taking a nasty downward turn for me.. If I do a restart to my XR500 right now it works good for about a good hour before it goes south! And then my QoS just becomes unfunctional and unresponsive.. So when it is working Duma OS is the next best thing to butter!! You cant beat it! Tbh I may need to see if I can get my XR500 exchanged..

Zippy..

[bbursley]

2 hours ago, LegendMask said:

@Zippy Thanks for sharing your post, I will keep sharing my results, do more tests and hopefully we can solve the issue if it is indeed the router in the first place.

 

PS: I must say regardless on the readings on those results. Using DumaOS by far have yield the best gaming experience next to R1 Original firmware, so please keep this in mind.

 

Meanwhile here is another test using OpenWRT on R7000 with fq_codel

 

 

 

 

Honestly fq_codel and duma os are really almost tied in terms of doing a good job performing on QOS. DumaOS had more frequent stable lines but also appears to have had higher spikes. Where as on the Fq_codel there were less spikes per say but fewer straight lines. Honestly its really hard to decide which is really any better than the other. It seems as though either could work. Where do you perform your tests? Bell has some really nice low latency at each hop though, like damn that fiber is showing through haha. I suppose that depends on where you are in canada though since my friend lives kinda near halifax and bell is decent there too but man hes a ways off and thats a long distance for him to servers. TBH idk what I wanna do go back to the original firmware or stick with Duma. honestly I dont find alot of consistency in it. Either ping assist works and QOS blows, or the ping assist sucks and the QOS is mint. Both need to be more solidified in my opinion. But man once those two are ironed out idc what you have an R1 or otherwise nothing is going to beat the DumaOS software at all. I think a big issue is that every connection is differnt and there doesnt seem to be a one size fits all solution. earlier I had my ping assist grabbing some smooth dedis, but i was honestly getting dicked on for no reason, bullets were sponging, and there were plenty of 4 bar players. However i went and played fortnite and gameplay was relatively okay. but that was about it. IW was playing shit for me, bo3 was, bo4 was...idk what the issue is.... I just never get A ratings all accross with these routers like I did on DSL...well except using the reactive algorithm....and thats it. Its kinda sad, maybe they need to integrate something like that into this firmware to give some wiggle room. My head hurts trying to figure it out to much though. I mean im happy this forum and this focus exists unlike ever before with other router companies who just push for hardware...

 

[bbursley]

On 3/17/2019 at 12:43 PM, BIG__DOG said:

your ping is good, no question about that, but theres jitter on your line by the looks of it, especially in the 2nd pingplotter graph. Is that with sliders set at 100%? 

 

As for your clod issues, what firmware are you rinning on the XR500?

I wish QOS worked for me as well as its working for you :(, its as if your line was still idle....that my line idle...but then the second I do anything else it becomes like what legend has been posting. Why are we all seeing different results?....I don't think that's right. If QOS was not buggy and was applied by each person the same then the algorithm should be equally beneficial all accross the board. It is when it comes to the DDWRT and OpenWRT ones, why does it always seem like you mods have ZERO issues?....seems a little odd to me....perhaps you guys just have magic connections nobody else has. But as much as people bitch about the internet in the UK despite it being fiber, I cant imagine that to be so true. 

[bbursley]

This is literally what I get using 70/70 every damn time. I personally disagree with the C meaning nothing. Because there are times when its a B and its better. I am considering swapping out modems and perhaps testing that out. the only other one I own is a surfboard one and it does not have as many channels for streaming 4 down and 4 up. I could of sworn those were the ones with the Puma chips. But I know long ago when I did use it I really didnt have that many issues. So idk. but these are my results as of now. First two are while doing nothing, last is under load as legend did.

 

[BIG__DOG]

3 hours ago, bbursley said:

I wish QOS worked for me as well as its working for you :(, its as if your line was still idle....that my line idle...but then the second I do anything else it becomes like what legend has been posting. Why are we all seeing different results?....I don't think that's right. If QOS was not buggy and was applied by each person the same then the algorithm should be equally beneficial all accross the board. It is when it comes to the DDWRT and OpenWRT ones, why does it always seem like you mods have ZERO issues?....seems a little odd to me....perhaps you guys just have magic connections nobody else has. But as much as people bitch about the internet in the UK despite it being fiber, I cant imagine that to be so true. 

A lot of it is due to line quality and the distance from your house to the main cabinet where your connections runs to and also the distance to the main exchange. I am fortunate enough that I live  half a mile from my exchange and 100 yards to the street cabinet and a line that is 4 years old. At this moment in time I am using an edgerouterX as the main router and XR500 as an AP as there's a feature on the erX that is not on the XR500 that I need to run for a few days. So no Us Mods do not have a "magic connection" or "zero issues". There is an internet issue that the UK suffers from and that is the fact that a large swathe of the population get 10mbps or under which is appalling.

 

This is my PP graph running my edgerouterX  with my download throttled to 50%.

[Netduma Jack]

I agree with Big Dog, nobody has a line without fault unless they have a LOT of money. Famous streamers have a mint connection because they can afford to pay some guy to network their house for them, and afford a house right next to a server bank or an exchange. They're probably advised to do just that, and they'll have all the best equipment.

The mods here, and indeed us at Netduma, don't have a great connection really. Every network is different, so saying that QoS should apply the same effects to everyone equally is an impossibility from the start. It does benefit everyone in much the same way, but everyone will see those benefits differently depending on how their equipment / network / connected devices react to it.

[bbursley]

5 hours ago, Netduma Jack said:

I agree with Big Dog, nobody has a line without fault unless they have a LOT of money. Famous streamers have a mint connection because they can afford to pay some guy to network their house for them, and afford a house right next to a server bank or an exchange. They're probably advised to do just that, and they'll have all the best equipment.

The mods here, and indeed us at Netduma, don't have a great connection really. Every network is different, so saying that QoS should apply the same effects to everyone equally is an impossibility from the start. It does benefit everyone in much the same way, but everyone will see those benefits differently depending on how their equipment / network / connected devices react to it.

Well first of all, I cant say i fully agree with your statement about a one size fits all kinda of thing. If you look at how many edgerouter-x units have been sold and where, I think you could argue theres a very strong amount of consistency and ratings behind those products, it seems like the only people who would really not benefit is if they had a seriously horrible ISP or modem-type hardware. I personally feel like the Netduma is too unique and simply not tested enough and widely enough and believe we should expand that testing out deeper amongst dedicated users, even IF that means being contractually bound, anything we can do to improve and be above is great and itll benefit those who maybe just cant dedicate that kind of effort at all. I dont care if that means my logs being read or reported or my router being bricked and having to pay shipping at least one way. I also think sometimes not enough information is disclosed, as we earlier adopters have all been investors of this company and boosted it to become where it even is today, which is totally fine. But there needs to be a bigger plan here besides just shipping off to netgear, again, more testers in more locations regardless. This company stemmed from a dream, so lets fulfill it.

[BIG__DOG]

10 hours ago, bbursley said:

Well first of all, I cant say i fully agree with your statement about a one size fits all kinda of thing. If you look at how many edgerouter-x units have been sold and where, I think you could argue theres a very strong amount of consistency and ratings behind those products, it seems like the only people who would really not benefit is if they had a seriously horrible ISP or modem-type hardware. I

Most of the UK and europe have modem type connections compared to full fibre. The edgerouter is being used for packet capture!