XSXS Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I would stay away from all Puma chipset modems right now. I would only recommend Broadcom base modems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegaurdian1 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 THIS IS IN NO WAY A FULL LIST OF WORKING/NOT WORKING MODEMS. AS A GENERAL RULE - STAY AWAY FROM ISP PROVIDED "ALL IN ONE" MODEM/ROUTER HUBS IF YOU CAN. IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A NEW MODEM AND WANT TO BE SURE IT WILL WORK PROPERLY ONLY PURCHASE FROM THE COMPATIBLE MODEM LIST. NOT COMPATIBLE: Arris/Motorola: SB6121 SB6141 SB6183 SB6190 TG1672G TM1602 TG2492LG - Virgin Media Super Hub 3 No Arris or Motorola modems work well with the Netduma. I'd advise against it. AVM: FRITZ!Box 6460 FRITZ!Box 6490 FRITZ!Box 6320 Cisco: XG1-V3 DPC3848 DPC3848V DPC3939 DPC3941B DPC3941T DPC3941 (commonly - Comcast Xfinity XB3) Compal: Super Hub 3 - virgin media CH7465-LG Virgin Media Hub 3 CH7466 CH66xxx Hitron: CDA Series: CDA-32372 CDA-3-35 CDE Series: CDE-32372 CGN3 Series: CGN3, CGN3ACR,CGN3AMF, CGN3AMR, CGN3ACSMR CGNM Series: CGNM-2250 CGNM-3552 CGNDM Series. CGNV Series: CGNV4 Linksys: CM3016 CM3024 CG7500 Netgear: CG3300 CG4000 CG4500 CG4500TM C6300 C6300BD (Telstra Gateway Max - Australia) CM500 CM600 CM700 AC1750 AC1900 (R7000) Pace: C704 Panasonic: C01AS03 Samsung: Home Media Server Horizon G5400 Horizon G7400 Bbox G7441 SMC: D3G2408 D3G0804 D3GNV5 D3GN4 D3M1604 D3G1604 E3G1604 TP-Link: CR7000 TC-7620 Technicolor: TC8715D Ubee: EVW3226 Zoom: 5370 COMPATIBLE: Arris/Motorola: TM722G TM822G TP-Link: TC-7610 TC-7610-E Zoom: 5341J I am not sure why Arris/Motorola: TM722G and TM822G are compatible if at the very top from the first list last line says that NO Arris/Motorola Modems work well and that you would advise against it. I have the Arris SB6183 and I believe it has been doing well but with this list I'm now not so sure and I am thinking about changing it. I wish this list had been compiled a while a go lol I could have bought the appropriate modem the first time. Is there a way for me to test my current Arris SB6183 modem with NetDuma/R1 to see if there is a compatibility issue? I appreciate the list and any additional information you provide. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e38BimmerFN Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 My 6183 has been working just fine w the R1. Big item to make sure is that your signal line level is good from the isp. thegaurdian1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegaurdian1 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I was also wondering if this list that has been compiled is supported or endorsed by the NetDuma engineering team etc. If it is then maybe NetDuma should have a disclaimer when buying R1 router to purchase a specific modem etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegaurdian1 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Hey Mod, You can add the Arris SB8200 to the Compatible list. I've had it for a couple weeks and I'm getting amazing results so far. Hit detection is spot on in BO3. K/D has improved. Much more stable gaming as compared to the TP Link 7610 I was using. In-game ping is more stable and I don't notice any skipping in BO3 that I was seeing in previous modems. My area does have Docsis 3.1 for the download side enabled, but I'm still only on their Blast package. Not sure if the Docsis 3.1 is helping with the connection or not. But I'll take it. I'm currently having some issues with the modem rebooting but I believe that is a line issue with some RF interference which Comcast is looking into. Love that connection I get 120down and 5up . Although I hate Comcast/xfinity in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmMoDBoX Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 I was also wondering if this list that has been compiled is supported or endorsed by the NetDuma engineering team etc. If it is then maybe NetDuma should have a disclaimer when buying R1 router to purchase a specific modem etc. It's a list that was made by me, of modems I've personally and painstakingly tested to ensure that they will work flawlessly with every feature of the the Netduma. Unfortunately it has turned into a pissing contest of people assuming every modem works, just because they never tried a different modem to see the difference. Good luck. ColonicBoom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e38BimmerFN Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Kind of hard to say that since you haven't tested modems on other ISPs either huh? Not a pissing contest. Were just stating that some of us have good experiences with the R1 and the supposed incompatible modems that seem to work just fine for some of us is all. Enjoy what works is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmMoDBoX Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Kind of hard to say that since you haven't tested modems on other ISPs either huh? I have though. Multiple different modems with multiple setups, speed plans and locations throughout the country. Only the modems on the confirmed working list are ones that work under ALL conditions. Which I have meticulous gone through trying each individual setting and option to purposely break things. For example, a SB6141 SEEMS to work fine. Until you enable super turbo mode. But I really don't have to explain myself to you. If I said the sky was blue you would try to argue differently. Have YOU used any other modem besides the SB6183? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
II N3MES1S II Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I have though. Multiple different modems with multiple setups, speed plans and locations throughout the country. Only the modems on the confirmed working list are ones that work under ALL conditions. Which I have meticulous gone through trying each individual setting and option to purposely break things. For example, a SB6141 SEEMS to work fine. Until you enable super turbo mode. But I really don't have to explain myself to you. If I said the sky was blue you would try to argue differently. Have YOU used any other modem besides the SB6183? No. Well if you dont have the time to explain to him, how about explain to me how the Arris SB6190 is incompatible with the netduma? What things break on the netduma while using the 6190? I know how to use netduma and all features work while using the 6190. So please inlighten me with the details you uncovered while testing the netduma using the 6190. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmMoDBoX Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Well if you dont have the time to explain to him, how about explain to me how the Arris SB6190 is incompatible with the netduma? What things break on the netduma while using the 6190? I know how to use netduma and all features work while using the 6190. So please inlighten me with the details you uncovered while testing the netduma using the 6190. No need to test the SB6190 as it has an intel puma 6 chipset and every modem with that chip completely destroys your ping. (I've tested other modems with a Puma 6 chip) I don't care what kind of software patches and fixes they implemented, software can't fix a hardware problem. You can only put a bandaid on the issue. Do you really want to play time sensitive games on a modem that is part of a lawsuit for using faulty hardware and selling it to millions of customers? Especially when you can use literally any other modem and get better results. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/03/intel_puma_chipset_firmware_fix/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
II N3MES1S II Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 No need to test the SB6190 as it has an intel puma 6 chipset and every modem with that chip completely destroys your ping. (I've tested other modems with a Puma 6 chip) I don't care what kind of software patches and fixes they implemented, software can't fix a hardware problem. You can only put a bandaid on the issue. Do you really want to play time sensitive games on a modem that is part of a lawsuit for using faulty hardware and selling it to millions of customers? Especially when you can use literally any other modem and get better results. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/03/intel_puma_chipset_firmware_fix/ Would you like me to show you video of the 6190 playing infinite warfare with 15ms lobbies? Oh and never has a match skipped, jumped or hopped for me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmMoDBoX Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Would you like me to show you video of the 6190 playing infinite warfare with 15ms lobbies? Oh and never has a match skipped, jumped or hopped for me either. First, it's infinite warfare... You have not done a ping test. Second, you've proven my point right here: And when I actually look at the links to those specific tests, the results are scary... What annoys me is that instead of a nice clean organized list of modems that clearly work and do not work well for the best possible gaming experience, new people see this 10 page long pissing contest of people who are making claims without having actually tested any other modems or gone through and tested every combination of settings/setups. Those new people come here and see this nonsense and don't know what to think. "Why is one person saying my modem doesn't work, but someone else is saying it works fine?" But hey, I'm not here to convince you or anyone else to buy a different modem. If you think you're happy, and you think that everything works fine for you then good for you! But I know I too once thought my setup was fine... Until I wasn't stubborn and bought a $30 modem to make a world of difference to me, and make my gaming experience that much better. The same goes for many others who simply accepted my knowledge and made a small investment for a new modem which resulted in a better quality of life. I can go on and on, but again, if I say the sky is blue people will say no it's not. This is how the internet works, and quite frankly I do not care. My goal on this forum is not to troll people and tell people they are wrong. But as a general rule, I live life by not opening my mouth to talk about something unless I know what I'm talking about... this is one of those times. MattyAu and ColonicBoom 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e38BimmerFN Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 SB 6120, 6121 and 6180. All work well with the R1 with my ISP. I'm looking into getting a Motorola MB series next. Even though you claim to have tested all modems, I highly doubt you can test all modems with the R1 on all ISP services. Each ISP is a bit different in there services. Not here either to claim only one specific modem works, however in recent posts you have trolled and seem overly biased against people who claim other modems DO work. Even against me and you continue too. Thought people say there modems work and you don't seem to believe them, maybe the sky is blue and there speaking the truth. Why not accept them or what they say. Were all there to gain knowledge and express our experiences, not pass doubt or lie about things. Maybe those modems do work and are working. Why is that hard to believe huh? It would be in NetDumas best interest to make sure ALL or as many modems work well with there R1 modem as possible, not just one or a few. Again, not all ISP services support all modems or your TPLink modems which you seem to favor and push on others. Of course if the ISP supports it, of course, try it. However if users are seeing good experiences with what you claims doesn't work well with there R1, then doesn't mean any else accept that it's working for them. Users of the R1 shouldn't have to try other modems to get good experiences with the R1. Your list is misleading and inaccurate. It should reflect what works best with the R1 in your experiences however other modems will work and depending upon ISP services, bandwidth usage, cabling, signal and line quality and router configuration can and will effect how the modem, R1 and gaming experiences are seen. Also other modems could be recommended for ISPs that don't seem to support your favorite modem Mfr. The list would be also out of date as time goes on, the last time you supposedly tested the modems, new FW version have probably been released and may have improved how the modems work with the R1, or could have made it works as well. Have you tested ALL modems again across all ISP? LOL I doubt it. Over all, you could be a little less biased and be a bit more encouraging with people who post there experiences with other modems besides TPLink and regardless of what modem they are using. As time goes on, 8x4 and 16x4 modems will be going away and DOCSIS 3.1 will be the norm, things will be changing as well as the R1 and there OS which we are patiently waiting for. I have though. Multiple different modems with multiple setups, speed plans and locations throughout the country. Only the modems on the confirmed working list are ones that work under ALL conditions. Which I have meticulous gone through trying each individual setting and option to purposely break things.For example, a SB6141 SEEMS to work fine. Until you enable super turbo mode. But I really don't have to explain myself to you. If I said the sky was blue you would try to argue differently.Have YOU used any other modem besides the SB6183? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e38BimmerFN Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 You should look at the dates of the dslreports results are over a year old and maybe different now. First, it's infinite warfare... You have not done a ping test. Second, you've proven my point right here: And when I actually look at the links to those specific tests, the results are scary... What annoys me is that instead of a nice clean organized list of modems that clearly work and do not work well for the best possible gaming experience, new people see this 10 page long pissing contest of people who are making claims without having actually tested any other modems or gone through and tested every combination of settings/setups. Those new people come here and see this nonsense and don't know what to think. "Why is one person saying my modem doesn't work, but someone else is saying it works fine?" But hey, I'm not here to convince you or anyone else to buy a different modem. If you think you're happy, and you think that everything works fine for you then good for you! But I know I too once thought my setup was fine... Until I wasn't stubborn and bought a $30 modem to make a world of difference to me, and make my gaming experience that much better. The same goes for many others who simply accepted my knowledge and made a small investment for a new modem which resulted in a better quality of life. I can go on and on, but again, if I say the sky is blue people will say no it's not. This is how the internet works, and quite frankly I do not care. My goal on this forum is not to troll people and tell people they are wrong. But as a general rule, I live life by not opening my mouth to talk about something unless I know what I'm talking about... this is one of those times. II N3MES1S II 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmMoDBoX Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 SB 6120, 6121 and 6180. All work well with the R1 with my ISP. I'm looking into getting a Motorola MB series next. Even though you claim to have tested all modems, I highly doubt you can test all modems with the R1 on all ISP services. Each ISP is a bit different in there services. Not here either to claim only one specific modem works, however in recent posts you have trolled and seem overly biased against people who claim other modems DO work. Even against me and you continue too. Thought people say there modems work and you don't seem to believe them, maybe the sky is blue and there speaking the truth. Why not accept them or what they say. Were all there to gain knowledge and express our experiences, not pass doubt or lie about things. Maybe those modems do work and are working. Why is that hard to believe huh? It would be in NetDumas best interest to make sure ALL or as many modems work well with there R1 modem as possible, not just one or a few. Again, not all ISP services support all modems or your TPLink modems which you seem to favor and push on others. Of course if the ISP supports it, of course, try it. However if users are seeing good experiences with what you claims doesn't work well with there R1, then doesn't mean any else accept that it's working for them. Users of the R1 shouldn't have to try other modems to get good experiences with the R1. Your list is misleading and inaccurate. It should reflect what works best with the R1 in your experiences however other modems will work and depending upon ISP services, bandwidth usage, cabling, signal and line quality and router configuration can and will effect how the modem, R1 and gaming experiences are seen. Also other modems could be recommended for ISPs that don't seem to support your favorite modem Mfr. The list would be also out of date as time goes on, the last time you supposedly tested the modems, new FW version have probably been released and may have improved how the modems work with the R1, or could have made it works as well. Have you tested ALL modems again across all ISP? LOL I doubt it. Over all, you could be a little less biased and be a bit more encouraging with people who post there experiences with other modems besides TPLink and regardless of what modem they are using. As time goes on, 8x4 and 16x4 modems will be going away and DOCSIS 3.1 will be the norm, things will be changing as well as the R1 and there OS which we are patiently waiting for. Obviously I know nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e38BimmerFN Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Not claiming you "know nothing". Just saying, you could be a little bit more accepting of others and what they say regardless of modems they maybe using. Were all here to help each other and help Duma as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmMoDBoX Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Not claiming you "know nothing". Just saying, you could be a little bit more accepting of others and what they say regardless of modems they maybe using. Were all here to help each other and help Duma as well. There are only 3 people here who claim that their Arris modems work fine. You are one of them... Everyone else who switched off an Arris modem has commented on how amazing the new modem is working for them. You haven't used anything except for Arris. That's like saying "I only buy Nike shoes because they are the best!" Well, have you tried any other brand? "No but they are the best, I know it." Also, the TP-Link TC-7610 works on every major cable ISP in the USA. So your argument about needing something that is compatible with a different ISP is invalid. It goes up to 340 Mbps+ which is faster than any cable internet. Looking back at XSXS "tests" I found other flaws in his testing which I didn't want to bring up, but since you mentioned him I will. As I previously stated, he is using splitters and attenuators to balance his signal. That's like putting square tires on your car because it goes too fast... Besides that, you can clearly see in his "test" screenshots that he isn't even pinging a reliable IP (Google DNS), let alone the same IP (One is IPv4 and the other is IPv6). So of course it will give different results, plus it's at different times of the day. Bottom line is this. If you want the BEST possible gaming experience on ANY router with ANY cable ISP in the USA, then the TP-Link TC-7610 is one of the very few modems which offer that. Regardless if you believe it or not... That's not my problem. I'm not here to convince people who are stubborn and insist on something yet they haven't tested it themselves. If you think that your Arris modem works fine for you, then good for you. I'll be here enjoying this: That's 2ms jitter on a congested, oversold, cable ISP. Israeli Falafel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e38BimmerFN Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Armstrong ISP doesn't support TPLink. Again, not all ISPs support TPLink. Most Do. Just saying. Your test is on Comcast, doesn't apply to other ISPs. Could be same, better or worse. Not saying that users shouldn't use TPLink. Saying that other modems work and work well with other ISP as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
II N3MES1S II Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 First, it's infinite warfare... You have not done a ping test. Second, you've proven my point right here: And when I actually look at the links to those specific tests, the results are scary... What annoys me is that instead of a nice clean organized list of modems that clearly work and do not work well for the best possible gaming experience, new people see this 10 page long pissing contest of people who are making claims without having actually tested any other modems or gone through and tested every combination of settings/setups. Those new people come here and see this nonsense and don't know what to think. "Why is one person saying my modem doesn't work, but someone else is saying it works fine?" But hey, I'm not here to convince you or anyone else to buy a different modem. If you think you're happy, and you think that everything works fine for you then good for you! But I know I too once thought my setup was fine... Until I wasn't stubborn and bought a $30 modem to make a world of difference to me, and make my gaming experience that much better. The same goes for many others who simply accepted my knowledge and made a small investment for a new modem which resulted in a better quality of life. I can go on and on, but again, if I say the sky is blue people will say no it's not. This is how the internet works, and quite frankly I do not care. My goal on this forum is not to troll people and tell people they are wrong. But as a general rule, I live life by not opening my mouth to talk about something unless I know what I'm talking about... this is one of those times. Everyone talks crap about infinite warfare simply because they get owned. I have done ping test, all kinds of ping tests. I'm not just buying expensive modems and routers to slap them on and not study them. (I use pingplotter too) The modems I will mention are just what I tested with since I owned the netduma. Motorola SB6121 with TWC in the high desert and in Los Angeles ( Both homes have just internet with no splitters and all lines terminated but the one going to modem. Netgear C3000 with TWC in the high desert. ( same line condition) Arris SB6190 with TWC/SPECTRUM in the high desert and in Los Angeles (same line condition) I watch my ping when I play Infinite Warfare so yea, its mostly a 15ms lobby. I wouldnt be looking at my old DSLR to judge how the 6190 doesnt work with the netduma. ( you know I am adjusting the C.C. for a good bufferbloat grade right?) You have to listen to your own words here, by you saying certain modems dont work with the netduma, then those with those modems might not buy the netduma. You are hurting the netduma company and not even knowing it. I will do a few DSLR tests with different C.C. and post them if you would like to see my ping as of right now in Los Angeles with SPECTRUM. e38BimmerFN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
II N3MES1S II Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 100% bandwidth no C.C. the package I pay for is 60mbps download. Now with C.C. @ 70%/70% Now with C.C. @ 50%/50% Now with C.C. @ 25%/25% Do you noticed the bufferbloat grade? Oh and check out that ping. e38BimmerFN and XSXS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegaurdian1 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 100% bandwidth no C.C. the package I pay for is 60mbps download. Now with C.C. @ 70%/70% Now with C.C. @ 50%/50% Do you noticed the bufferbloat grade? Oh and check out that ping. How do I post images and tests results on here or through the messages system in this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e38BimmerFN Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I think you have to add pictures to the Managed Attachments under your profile... thegaurdian1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSXS Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Looking back at XSXS "tests" I found other flaws in his testing which I didn't want to bring up, but since you mentioned him I will. As I previously stated, he is using splitters and attenuators to balance his signal. That's like putting square tires on your car because it goes too fast... Besides that, you can clearly see in his "test" screenshots that he isn't even pinging a reliable IP (Google DNS), let alone the same IP (One is IPv4 and the other is IPv6). So of course it will give different results, plus it's at different times of the day. I thought I was done replying to you in this thread but since you mentioned my tests, I will have to educate you again since talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. Here are the facts with my testing on the 7610. I had an actual Cox tech come out and verify my lines prior to testing it. I was watching him and talking with him the whole time. Meaning my lines are good! My line quality is good enough to hand a -3.5dB splitter, so that argument is invalid for you. I only used the return path attentuator on the Cisco modem, never used it with the 7610. My upstream power levels with no attenuation was around 38-39 dbmv. The sweet spot for cox is 42-45. I pinged google.com which from my experience is more consistent in pings than google DNS 8.8.8.8. I use both Ipv4 and ipv6 so both those screen shots are showing how the 7610 pinged using both protocols. I also posted a screen shot of the 7610 modem levels which are perfectly acceptable even with a splitter installed. At least I informed everyone how exactly I tested the 7610. You have no data, dates, or how you tested each modem with the R1. Where is the ping plotter charts for all the other modems that don't work with the R1? How long did you "painstakingly" test each modem? It also sounds like deadpool is not having that great of luck with the 7610 anymore and he uses the same ISP as me. "must be the lines: even though other modems work?... II N3MES1S II 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israeli Falafel Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I thought I was done replying to you in this thread but since you mentioned my tests, I will have to educate you again since talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. Here are the facts with my testing on the 7610. I had an actual Cox tech come out and verify my lines prior to testing it. I was watching him and talking with him the whole time. Meaning my lines are good! My line quality is good enough to hand a -3.5dB splitter, so that argument is invalid for you. I only used the return path attentuator on the Cisco modem, never used it with the 7610. My upstream power levels with no attenuation was around 38-39 dbmv. The sweet spot for cox is 42-45. I pinged google.com which from my experience is more consistent in pings than google DNS 8.8.8.8. I use both Ipv4 and ipv6 so both those screen shots are showing how the 7610 pinged using both protocols. I also posted a screen shot of the 7610 modem levels which are perfectly acceptable even with a splitter installed. At least I informed everyone how exactly I tested the 7610. You have no data, dates, or how you tested each modem with the R1. Where is the ping plotter charts for all the other modems that don't work with the R1? How long did you "painstakingly" test each modem? It also sounds like deadpool is not having that great of luck with the 7610 anymore and he uses the same ISP as me. "must be the lines: even though other modems work?... where is your data? I Am MoD BoX is trying to help. cut him a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegaurdian1 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Hi All, Please let me know what you think of these test results. Also let me know what I need to do if anything to make things better etc. Test was done with Modem Arris SB6183 MODEM connected directly via Ethernet cable to PC. I have Coax cable going from wall into a splitter and from there i have coax going into modem, tv etc. All images have names hopefully it shows up in the forum correctly. I am sure most of you will know better than I what each test is, does and so on. I have images of my Downstream channels and upstream channels I can post that and I have images of my LOG from the MODEM. I can post all that as well as long as any of these postings do not create a security risk for me. I feel like something is going on be it with my ISP or Modem or Router. I have Netduma R1 router but for this test NO router was used I also have Nighthawk X6 (R8000) router. SIDE NOTE: I did have speed tests but i accidentally deleted THEM! Speed tests particularly for upstream speed was fine but the dsl reports showed red graph and the red line in the middle extending up. I will provide that soon if necessary. I'm just looking for information, help and education on all this . Thank you ALL! XSXS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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