BIG__DOG Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 you want "twisted paired" not sheilded, sheilded is not as good at eliminating noise than twisted paired is. 1 of the moderators (Zennon) and another member nfcxcr3w told me about this and i got 1 the other day and it has vastly improved my connection compaired to the shielded cable i had before and i also changed all my ethernet cables to cat7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 Big - what kind of cable is it that they use mate, RJ45 or RJ11? That's what you can get in twisted or shielded form? From what I've read so far they install a BT faceplate on to the existing master socket, then run the cable from there to the modem right? Seems weird that an Ethernet cable can be run from the wall to the modem, because I've only ever used them between my modem and my devices with VM. There are no sockets of any kind upstairs so would that pose a problem? Are they able to fit new sockets "on demand" so to speak? Or could they simply run the cable from the back of the socket up the wall, through the drilled hole and into my conveniently located modem upstairs next to the rest of my stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpz44 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 This is what I use from master to modem. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2M-CAT6-DSL-LEAD-CABLE-FIBRE-TELEPHONE-LINES-like-BT-INFINITY-FTTC-VDSL-/261668855936?hash=item3cecade080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG__DOG Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Big - what kind of cable is it that they use mate, RJ45 or RJ11? That's what you can get in twisted or shielded form? From what I've read so far they install a BT faceplate on to the existing master socket, then run the cable from there to the modem right? Seems weird that an Ethernet cable can be run from the wall to the modem, because I've only ever used them between my modem and my devices with VM. There are no sockets of any kind upstairs so would that pose a problem? Are they able to fit new sockets "on demand" so to speak? Or could they simply run the cable from the back of the socket up the wall, through the drilled hole and into my conveniently located modem upstairs next to the rest of my stuff? no, they will not touch the socket you have with VM at all as it is the property of VM and not BT. They will run the existing line (if there is 1) to your desired location or they may run a brand new line from the cabinet to your desired location. Eitherway you will get a brand new socket. I have a mk3 socket and it has 2 connections, 1 is an rj12 and above is an RJ11 which is for the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Yeah Mr telephone is the man for twisted pair RJ11 or RJ45 to RJ11 Some engineers are naughty and do not fit the filtered face plates, in some instances you have to tell them too people that have no networking knowledge do not know so do not ask and are left with a normal face plate and a dongle ADSL filter on a VDSL line. There is a new NTE5C master socket on the market and a new MK4 VDSL face plate make sure you ask for these, if he does not have one a NTE5 and a MK3 will do. MS > short twisted pair cable > modem/router > short Ethernet to duma > Ethernet round the house is the ultimate noise reducer or you can run a long Ethernet if you need the duma elsewhere. The reason for keeping the noise to a minimum is that noise eats into your SNRM and on a resync the SNRM goes back to default but your speeds lower as you eat into the noise margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBull2k Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 edit. answered my own question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Yeah Zennon, that's all I want: a direct wired setup with the cable going from the master socket to the modem taking this handy, prebuilt shortcut if possible lol I asked someone from BT if they'd be able to use that already drilled hole to run the cable and they said maybe I ought to use their wireless broadband extenders. I think it might be a long day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 no, they will not touch the socket you have with VM at all as it is the property of VM and not BT. They will run the existing line (if there is 1) to your desired location or they may run a brand new line from the cabinet to your desired location. Eitherway you will get a brand new socket. I have a mk3 socket and it has 2 connections, 1 is an rj12 and above is an RJ11 which is for the internet. Awesome, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG__DOG Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 You have another option if your upstairs mains supply is on the same circuit as downstairs........new bt socket downstairs with homehub 6 plugged in to it, then an ethernet cable from that into a powerline adapter and then the netdum connected by ethernet into a powerline adapter upstairs......dont let em fob u off by saying you gotta have wireless extenders. Insist on a landline running upstairs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 That would be convenient as I have a double plug socket right next to the master socket, but since I moved house I put my powerline adapters away because I thought they would degrade the quality of my connection. Granted that's better than wifi but ever since picking up my Netduma I've been all about trying to make things as... "perfect" as possible I tested my adapters when I moved in and they worked fine. I guess the question is do they have a noticeably negative impact on a wired connection (jitter/packet loss) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 In my opinion do not use PLA's, pipe Ethernet round the house if you game upstairs say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 In my opinion do not use PLA's, pipe Ethernet round the house if you game upstairs say. I guess it all depends on the distance, and the quality of electrical wiring right? It would certainly be convenient for me to just plug in two adapters, especially as there's not even one metre between my master socket and plug sockets, but since I started getting serious about gaming I thought they would hurt my experience more than help it. It's just the master socket that seems to be the obstacle. You'd think if Virgin could run a cable up the side of the house, anyone else can. But that cable comes from the back of the box outside, whereas a BT modem seemingly has to be plugged into the front of the socket inside, unless I'm missing something. Running a length of cable upstairs while keeping everything tidy is my worry due to how everything in the house is laid out lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonicBoom Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 So do you not have any previously installed bt sockets,also have you checked to see if other houses have over head cables going to them if not then bt will be in the ground, I would be very surprised if a BT engineer would install a master socket upstairs, but if it's overhead wiring then they probs would Openreach installed a master socket in my bedroom upstairs, free of charge. The old BT socket downstairs was so old that a 15 year old building extension had blocked their access to it / severed cables. The lad said he'd drill a hole wherever in the walls if I wanted but as I had a hole from an old satellite cable I put it right up near the Netduma. They actually did a really nice neat job of it too, compared to Virgin's wrecking ball technique of cabling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG__DOG Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 That would be convenient as I have a double plug socket right next to the master socket, but since I moved house I put my powerline adapters away because I thought they would degrade the quality of my connection. Granted that's better than wifi but ever since picking up my Netduma I've been all about trying to make things as... "perfect" as possible I tested my adapters when I moved in and they worked fine. I guess the question is do they have a noticeably negative impact on a wired connection (jitter/packet loss) ? my lsds bedroom is connected by powerline adapters and he has no trouble gaming. But not everyones situation is the same. our house isn't old and the wiring is top notch.......But it is as a last resort, but it would be better than gaming wirelessly, but only just. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 See the bottom two messages on the screenshot. A guy who installs for BT claims they can drill holes if necessary to allow a cable to run outside and back in. If I ask for their data extension cable, could I have the modem plugged in at the socket, ask them to drill a hole near the socket so the extension cable would run outside, then run along the outside wall and back in at the hole already drilled for my VM coax cable, allowing me to simply plug into my Netduma upstairs? I feel like asking the guy on the day will be hit and miss, and they might refuse to drill holes or run a cable like this. Lots of conflicting info out there lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 my lsds bedroom is connected by powerline adapters and he has no trouble gaming. But not everyones situation is the same. our house isn't old and the wiring is top notch.......But it is as a last resort, but it would be better than gaming wirelessly, but only just. Yeah fortunately this is a new place. We had some dodgy old wiring at the old place and adapters worked just fine, but then again I had full speeds because the cabinet was literally a step away from my back garden fence. When I typed in my postcode on the BT site, apparently the 52mb service will only guarantee me 40mb so I imagine I'll be taking a hit in performance even if I went properly wired all the way. Damage limitation is key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpz44 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Yeah fortunately this is a new place. We had some dodgy old wiring at the old place and adapters worked just fine, but then again I had full speeds because the cabinet was literally a step away from my back garden fence. When I typed in my postcode on the BT site, apparently the 52mb service will only guarantee me 40mb so I imagine I'll be taking a hit in performance even if I went properly wired all the way. Damage limitation is key 40mb will work fine,gaming douse not use as much bandwidth as people think,it's the others that on you net that will effect it,hence the Duma , I think you will be fine sorting this,BT engineers are normally ok guys,plus you could bribe them if need ...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpz44 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Yeah Mr telephone is the man for twisted pair RJ11 or RJ45 to RJ11 Some engineers are naughty and do not fit the filtered face plates, in some instances you have to tell them too people that have no networking knowledge do not know so do not ask and are left with a normal face plate and a dongle ADSL filter on a VDSL line. There is a new NTE5C master socket on the market and a new MK4 VDSL face plate make sure you ask for these, if he does not have one a NTE5 and a MK3 will do. MS > short twisted pair cable > modem/router > short Ethernet to duma > Ethernet round the house is the ultimate noise reducer or you can run a long Ethernet if you need the duma elsewhere. The reason for keeping the noise to a minimum is that noise eats into your SNRM and on a resync the SNRM goes back to default but your speeds lower as you eat into the noise margin. Yer his cables are good and he makes them himself ,good quality ,plus I like his YouTube ,he's straight to point with no bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 40mb will work fine,gaming douse not use as much bandwidth as people think,it's the others that on you net that will effect it,hence the Duma Yeah that was the only real concern. It was great being on 100mb where I could set sliders to whatever, take that slight hit, and game while others were streaming TV, downloading, watching YouTube. I've seen the Amazon Fire TV use as much as 55mbps on the Duma network monitor hence my wanting to be on the safe side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 I live close to my exchange and get a constant 74mb and 17 up with a ping of 10-12, it just works... also maybe try ringing BT to haggle the price and waive the install fee as they love taking Virgin customers.Just a quick question that i forgot to ask before mate: since you're clearly getting almost full speeds being so close to the exchange/cab, how is your network currently setup? Do you have the modem/router downstairs by the socket and your gaming stuff upstairs? I'm just worried this data extension kit they use to pin a cable to the skirting board wouldn't work out too well. It would have to run from downstairs, back the other way up the stairs and into the room at the top of the stairs. Silly question but how would they get the cable into the next room (where all my gaming stuff is); drill through the wall or doorframe at the top of the stairs and run it through? I'd rather not be unable to close the door on a cable in the way lmao I just have no clue how the installation works compared to Virgin's, where the guy was more than happy to run the coaxial cable up the wall outside the house, through a hole and into my room where I plugged in my modem. All i know is I left Virgin because I couldn't be arsed with the jitter and instability, and it would be pointless moving to fibre if I'm forced to use wifi or powerline adapters to get online because it won't give me the best possible performance lol I just wish I knew exactly what I'm within my rights to ask the guy on the day. Some say they won't drill external walls or run cables outside, others say they carry drills and external cat5 for this exact reason :| I'm probably worrying about nothing but you never know what they will or won't be willing to do until they turn up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 Another quick update: I've found another socket downstairs, next to the front door. While the NTL branded socket is next to the back door, and is close to where my Virgin Media coaxial cable runs into the wall outside, this one is much older looking. I didn't recognise the logo on it so I looked it up and it turns out it's the 't in a circle' logo that BT used from 1980 to 1991. Makes sense considering how old the socket looks! Is this likely to be the master socket? If that's the case that could pose a problem as it's in the hallway and there are no plug sockets next to it! Or, because there are no plug sockets there, is it likely to be an extension socket that the BT engineer will simply ignore as I'm going for Infinity rather than basic broadband? Just looking for an idea of what will happen on the day, and what I can ask for in terms of setting my stuff up (preferably getting a wired connection directly to my bedroom upstairs where my devices are). Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagsta69 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Sorry to be slightly off topic but, I played for a couple of years using the powerline plugs with no issues, when I did experience an issue it turned out to be bad filters but in the interim I punched holes in the floor to mission control and hardwired everything. lol. Seriously though I went from masses of packet loss and jitter to a flatline ping of 10ms morning noon and night by replacing the filters in the magic white box that BT gives me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL317 Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 I used them just fine at my old place but it wasn't until I bought a huge length of Ethernet cable and ran it down the stairs just to test it that I noticed a considerable improvement. I guess since I started doing my homework on how to optimise everything for gaming (and of course buying an R1!) I just want everything to be as perfect as possible But yeah, if they can install this data extension kit in a way that allows it to run into my room without it getting in the way of the door closing properly then that'll work just fine for me. I guess it's safe to assume they'll clip it to the skirting board up the stairs and then drill a hole in the wall next to the door frame so it can run through and I could connect my router there? I've read so much conflicting info online that I'm really not sure what to think though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagsta69 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Look for the shortest route from router to games console and then put holes in stuff to make it happen. That's what I did whilst Viper was away then did a bit of decorating and she never noticed.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dialatech Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 I have just signed up to Virgin Media new Gamer Package, I'm happy with the speed and performance most of the time. Its advertised it has no traffic management but in peaks times I have noticed a different speed and impact on performance. I have called them and there have said there are looking into the issue. My main issue with Virgin Media is ping times. Generally its anyway from 35ms to 50ms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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