exitin the EU?

[secretface]

I know this is really off topic but I do not watch the US news and have no real idea whats going on. So can someone please explain it to me. Preferably someone in the UK. Thanks Cheers.

[Urge]

The UK voted itself out of the EU.   This could possibly change though.  A lot who voted or didn't vote were ill informed and they may possibly revote on it.

[secretface]

Why did they have this vote? Seems odd too me any way.

[Od1n]

they better undo this

 

scottland and ireland are already about to prepare a new referendum to splitt off from great britain to get back into the EU

(understandable regarding their high vote percentages to stay in the EU)

if that happens great britain will turn into little britain with the big cash-cow scottland and to some extend ireland no longer paying englands bills

england would probably head towards a huge economical recession

 

 

 

as to your actual question

england thinks they are something special in the EU and have to be treated that way, since not all of their claims have been accepted by the EU their citizen feel the EU harms them more than they benefit from it hence the referendum

obviously totally wrong, GB already has much more freedom and voting-power than other countries in the EU yet they want more

if they for whatever reason undo that referendum they shouldnt get any special rules at all anymore

[ColonicBoom]

I know this is really off topic but I do not watch the US news and have no real idea whats going on. So can someone please explain it to me. Preferably someone in the UK. Thanks Cheers.

 

Ok, I'll bite!

But I'm pissed off about this so people that didn't vote my way will not be happy and will call 'bullshit' on what I say.

But tough shit, they're the ones that have screwed the pooch for the UK and they need to be prepared for the blame that will be laid at their feet for the next 10-50 years if this goes sideways as it's expected to...

 

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is part of the European Union, members states have mutually beneficial trade agreements, mutual protection (strength in numbers), shared intelligence (as far as I'm aware), open borders, they share the European Convention on Human Rights and answer to the European Court of Justice.

Countries have to meet requirements to join and to remain - things like not being cannibals, not killing journalists that write mean things about the leaders of the country, etc.

 

It's not without it's problems, like all large family gatherings, some of the countries are quite poor, a (very) few of the wealthy powerful countries hold it together (Germany in particular).

Money gets paid in and dished out to farmers, etc, where it's needed to try to keep everything running relatively smoothly, to bail out countries where the leaders conveniently forgot to tax the wealthy people for 100 years whilst screwing the average person (Greece), to bail out countries where the leaders spent all the peoples money on holidays, fancy houses and sex parties (Italy), to keep the peace in general and to keep Russia out of Eastern Europe where they seem to be continually sniffing around trying to steal countries that they originally stole during WW2 because they are governed by a mad-midget bastard with some serious warmongering issues.

 

 

We just had a referendum for the people to vote and decide if we should leave the European Union because the massive ponce-toff-forehead that is David Cameron thought it would work out in his favour and write him into the history books. And he had previously promised that if he was elected to run the country without being part of a coalition government (two political parties jointly running the country at the same time) he would allow this referendum to go ahead. It was his way of ensuring that the 'anti-Europe' voters voted for his party instead of the more extreme parties.

 

He was wrong, it didn't work out at all well for him and now he's had to resign. The leader of the other major party now faces a vote of no confidence on top of this because they didn't really bother doing anything to inform their own potential voters of what could go wrong if we left Europe...

So we will likely be left with no stability or leadership in both of the major political parties and it will just be 'whoever wants to have a go' (mad Boris Johnson).

 

 

51% of the UK voted to leave the EU and have potentially ruined our economy for the next 10 to 20+ years, whilst simultaneously destabilising Europe with possible global financial implications (London and the London Stock Exchange has a lot more money and financial influence than people seem to realise).

 

75% of the under 25 year olds, the ones it will affect to the greatest extent, voted to remain a part of the European Union.

The next age backet (25-49 I think) voted closer to 50/50.

The next age bracket (everyone else) basically decided it, the majority of whom will not be affected too much* because they will at the very least be retiring or retired and a large proportion of them will be dead.

*Although they have just screwed their pension schemes right up and 'the young' will be so pissed off they won't foot the bill.

 

 

The 'leave Europe' votes were pretty much all about either immigration or money paid into Europe or a 'protest vote'.

The 'leave' politicians said that we pay £350M a week to Europe and that if we left Europe that money would go into UK healthcare and that sort of thing.

They've now admitted that this was bollocks but a whole load of easily-led people fell for it and voted to leave.

The immigration issue won't change either (see below).

And the 'foreigners' weren't stealing all the jobs anyway.

 

Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar (96%) voted overwhelmingly to stay in Europe but Wales and enough of England voted to put it just over 51% to leave Europe.

London* also voted massively in favour of remaining part of Europe.

Scotland and Northern Ireland will now be dragged out of Europe against the will of their people and will most likely hold a referendum to break away from the UK and become independent. Then they can remain in Europe as they want to.

They have the oilfields or natural gas or whatever it is up there so will not have a problem.

And because Scotland has a border with England obviously anyone that wants to sneak into England from Europe will literally be able to go to Scotland and jump on a train for a couple of hours or just walk if they want.

 

*It's also been suggested that London will want to become independent from what's left and if that were to happen then we'll be so poor we would basically be 'bin-dipping' for scraps and fighting stray cats for dead rats to eat.

London won't break away from the UK though, there would literally be civil war before that happened and London would be razed to the ground if they tried to bolt with all the money.

 

 

Also worth noting...

 

"The higher the level of education, the higher the EU support"

 

"UKIP vote overlaps perfectly with Brexit support"

 

Brexit = British exit from European Union

UKIP = Thinly veiled, pretend-we're-not-racist party (but a lot of the supporters are) with politicians holding strange beliefs "same sex marriage caused the floods" (seriously, a councillor made the announcement after some massive flooding).

 

Some political leaders from around the world have offered their congratulations:

Geert Wilders - founder/leader of the Dutch Party for Freedom. Denied entry into the UK for his speeches 'inciting hatred'. A nasty racist.

Marine Le Pen - leader of the French National Party. 'Inciting racial hatred'. A nasty racist.

Donald Trump - a candyfloss-haired bum-weasel. And, I assume, a bit of a racist?

 

 

 

So to sum up...

 

We are now potentially looking at:

 

A f*ck-up of the UK economy of biblical proportions.

A complete loss of trade agreements with Europe.

A loss of all coordinated intelligence from European member states.

A loss of all cooperation from foreign borders that would potentially keep 'nasties' away from our shores.

The destabilisation of Europe.

Other countries will now consider holding their own referendum, Spain may also try to break itself up into smaller parts (it's been on the cards for while).

Spain has also already made a bid for Gibraltar the morning after the vote - NO, bad Spain, Gibraltar is ours!

 

And we have just walloped Europe financially and abandoned some of our closest allies, Germany, France, Netherlands, etc who will have to pump more money into Europe to try to hold it together on their own.

Will they want to give us good trade deals now and will they allow us to put our border police in their countries?

No, of course they won't.

 

Our imports will go up in price, our exports will go down in price, and we look like a bunch of racist arseholes.

And our holidays will cost more too.

[ColonicBoom]

they better undo this

 

scottland and ireland are already about to prepare a new referendum to splitt off from great britain to get back into the EU

(understandable regarding their high vote percentages to stay in the EU)

if that happens great britain will turn into little britain with the big cash-cow scottland and to some extend ireland no longer paying englands bills

england would probably head towards a huge economical recession

 

 

as to your actual question

england thinks they are something special in the EU and have to be treated that way, since not all of their claims have been accepted by the EU their citizen feel the EU harms them more than they benefit from it hence the referendum

obviously totally wrong, GB already has much more freedom and voting-power than other countries in the EU yet they want more

if they for whatever reason undo that referendum they shouldnt get any special rules at all anymore

We're trying to undo this!

There is a petition with almost 3,000,000 signatures that was only started on Friday - when it passed 100,000 it became mandatory that it be considered by parliament.

 

Ireland is not part of the UK.

 

To say that Scotland pays England's bills is just silly.

The UK economy is something like $3 trillion, Scotland's is about $250 billion of that, if they keep all of the oil/gas.

According to wikipedia (yeh, I know, but where else am I going to look) London's economy dwarves the rest of the UK, it trades more dollars than New York and more Euros than every other European city combined.

 

It's not just going to put us into a recession, it's going to take a massive dump on Europe too.

 

But that kind of 'England thinks they're special' attitude you have is exactly why so many people have voted this way.

Germany + UK + France = approx 50% of Europe's economy, that's why we have more voting power in Europe and why we should have more voting power.

And the UK and France are two of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council - although I don't really know or care to look up what that actually entails.

 

Don't claim that you know what the citizens want, the citizens themselves don't know what they want - they just know that European HQ is starting to take too much control of the member states' sovereignty.

 

Do you even know what 'special treatment' the UK was asking for? Of course you don't.

 

It's not unreasonable...

 

We wanted assurances that we wouldn't be forced into an integrated European Army.

And that our police forces wouldn't have to deal with European police paperwork.

We wanted to limit excessive interference from Brussels so that we could trade more freely with America and China (not just for us, the rest of Europe would have also received the same freedom).

We wanted the '48hr working-week' limit removed (we don't care how long other countries allow their people to work but we didn't feel it should be enforced/blocked).

We wanted assurances regarding the inclusion of new European member states to prevent huge migrations across the continent (we have a problem because the open-borders are too open and it's pretty damned crowded here already).

We wanted to be able to restrict migrant benefits for the first four years after they arrived in the UK (the UK is known as the welfare destination of choice for migrants), the ones that turn up with no job, in ill-health and immediately receive unemployment welfare, housing welfare, too-many-children welfare, etc, it's financially crippling for the UK taxpayers.

We get a lot of 'healthcare tourists' that turn up needing operations/healthcare/medicine that they can't afford (or because their home country has a naff healthcare system and no money) and then we're forced to fix them at our expense.

We wanted the ability to deport unemployed EU migrants if they had been here for 6 months and not bothered with work.

We wanted assurances that European law wouldn't swallow up our own parliamentary system in Europe's attempt to fully integrate European law. We wanted explicit assurances that European countries that don't have the Euro currency wouldn't be at a disadvantage when trading.

And we wanted a safeguard to stop possible further financial integration being imposed on us at a later date (as we're not part of the Eurozone).

And that if Europe did continue to further integrate the Euro currency and then ballsed it up we wouldn't be forced into further bailouts because of the poor planning.

 

It didn't help matters that a couple of years ago the UK was given an additional and unexpected £1.7 Billion 'membership bill' from Europe due to the UK's economic success when compared to the Eurozone.

And that the European Commision then said that they would use our budget contributions to bail out Greece (again) in violation of a previous agreement that The European Commission had made.

 

Does that sound unreasonable?

Not actually asking for extra stuff for ourselves, they sound like common sense requests that all of the member states should be seeking for themselves...

But discussion was rejected and thus the Prime Minister was forced to call the referendum.

[secretface]

Thanks Boom. I don't trust any us news or Hillary/Trump to tell us the truth here.  Its good to here from someone there.

[Knomax]

You are wrong in some things...i am from Greece and always government tax everyone.We have the biggest taxes in EU...never taxes in Greece was the problem.....government and politicians spend money in armament programs from France and especially Germany all these bought at significantly higher costs than actually costs because they stole money from these agreements.

For debt......

Citizens not owed to state....the dept was from banks!!!And the state buy this dept....so now the state owes!!!!And other countrys thinks that they help the citizens of Greece....no they help the banks....

They gave us 390 billion as "help"....do you know how many of these goes to Greek economy?IMF said that only 9 billions they went to the Greek economy and development.The others went to banks dept that state bought from them.Politicians involved in many scandals with SIEMENS.

The only mistake they made was that the citizens believed politicians.

Sorry for the mistakes English is not my native language.

[ColonicBoom]

You are wrong in some things...i am from Greece and always government tax everyone.We have the biggest taxes in EU...never taxes in Greece was the problem.....government and politicians spend money in armament programs from France and especially Germany all these bought at significantly higher costs than actually costs because they stole money from these agreements.

For debt......

Citizens not owed to state....the dept was from banks!!!And the state buy this dept....so now the state owes!!!!And other countrys thinks that they help the citizens of Greece....no they help the banks....

They gave us 390 billion as "help"....do you know how many of these goes to Greek economy?IMF said that only 9 billions they went to the Greek economy and development.The others went to banks dept that state bought from them.Politicians involved in many scandals with SIEMENS.

The only mistake they made was that the citizens believed politicians.

Sorry for the mistakes English is not my native language.

 

Sorry Knomax, I didn't mean to suggest that the Greek people were at fault at all.

I know that it was the politicians and the banks that made the mess, not the Greek people.

And I know that it is the Greek people like yourself that have ended up suffering because of it, which is very unfair.

 

Your English is very good and a lot better than my Greek too

 

I've edited the original post to reflect what happened to Greece better (I hope).

[bagsta69]

I myself, and a large majority of people who I work with (dr's, nurses, surgeons, gp's and other healthcare pro's) are not racist, xenophobes, or poorly educated. We are not "OLD" or "YOUNG" we are of mixed race and pay our taxes and not a single one of us has voted leave because of immigration.

But vote leave we have.

We live in a democracy and the majority has spoken and the biggest winner in all of this if there can be one is democracy itself.

If the vote is over ruled (which I very much doubt) then it would make a mockery of democracy.

The country, including it's politicians has gone into melt down. We need to accept the vote for right or wrong and move forward. Germany isn't about to stop selling BMW's to people in the UK who lack the ability to park or indicate just because we are no longer in the EU.

I am sure now after admitting this (as if people didn't know) I may well get a level of abuse thrown in my general direction. I am OK with that, Like I said in the shout box the other day,

"politics and an internet forum, what could go wrong?" lol

Peace out yall and happy hunting.

 

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

[Knomax]

I think many people ..."old" people vote to leave because they don't like that Germany wants to be the first of all countrys in EU....you know better as you leave there.

 

For the record...A few months ago we did referendum....70% vote to leave from EU....The government did not  account the decision of the people...and stay.

We wanted to leave because Germany want's unreasonable things....to sell the best places that my homeland has.

Things that TV didn't saying in the other people of EU....Many are under the poverty line...Searching through garbage for food...Older people do not have money to buy their medication..You go to hospital and have no syringes!!!!But you pay taxes for care.

Nobody's talking about the problems of the people....They only care about money...people for them is just numbers.

We do not want such a Europe.... to be all well not half a joy to live and the other half die of hunger.

[sncjez]

they better undo this

 

scottland and ireland are already about to prepare a new referendum to splitt off from great britain to get back into the EU

(understandable regarding their high vote percentages to stay in the EU)

if that happens great britain will turn into little britain with the big cash-cow scottland and to some extend ireland no longer paying englands bills

england would probably head towards a huge economical recession

 

C'mon mate your not here think before you type if the EU leaders wanted an independent scotland would it subsidise  the scots as much as england highly unlikely it's all a fook up right now and the vote has been casted tricky times ahead that's for sure. 

[Od1n]

Things that TV didn't saying in the other people of EU....Many are under the poverty line...Searching through garbage for food...Older people do not have money to buy their medication..You go to hospital and have no syringes!!!!But you pay taxes for care.

Nobody's talking about the problems of the people....They only care about money...people for them is just numbers.

We do not want such a Europe.... to be all well not half a joy to live and the other half die of hunger.

 

but do you think that will get better after leaving the EU?

the first thing that will happen (and actually already started) is that the economy is declining and reversing that will most likely take years

things will now get even worse for those people you mentioned while the alternative would have been to just vote a different party on the next elections day and keep the economical growth

and even if the economy is back to its former state who guarantees you that the government will focus more on those people than they did while they were being part of the EU?

 

 

 

on a sidenote, next tho that signature petition i heard some politicians try to turn the referndum around in the lower house

im not that familiar with the british government system and how referendums are handled in it but how are the chances stop it there?

[ColonicBoom]

on a sidenote, next tho that signature petition i heard some politicians try to turn the referndum around in the lower house

im not that familiar with the british government system and how referendums are handled in it but how are the chances stop it there?

 

I don't think that the petition will make a difference and like Bagsta said, for the sake of democracy the vote has to stand - there's no point in a public vote if the people in power just ignore it, that's how uprisings and revolts get started.

 

It will destroy the two main parties in the UK, I think there have been 14 resignations/sackings of Members of Parliament since the referendum.

The current ruling party has basically split in half and the 'shadow cabinet' (not ruling, party in waiting) has mostly resigned because of a lack of belief in their leader.

 

It's gone tits-up basically.

[ColonicBoom]

I myself, and a large majority of people who I work with (dr's, nurses, surgeons, gp's and other healthcare pro's) are not racist, xenophobes, or poorly educated. We are not "OLD" or "YOUNG" we are of mixed race and pay our taxes and not a single one of us has voted leave because of immigration.

But vote leave we have.

We live in a democracy and the majority has spoken and the biggest winner in all of this if there can be one is democracy itself.

If the vote is over ruled (which I very much doubt) then it would make a mockery of democracy.

The country, including it's politicians has gone into melt down. We need to accept the vote for right or wrong and move forward. Germany isn't about to stop selling BMW's to people in the UK who lack the ability to park or indicate just because we are no longer in the EU.

I am sure now after admitting this (as if people didn't know) I may well get a level of abuse thrown in my general direction. I am OK with that, Like I said in the shout box the other day,

"politics and an internet forum, what could go wrong?" lol

Peace out yall and happy hunting.

 

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

 

I must admit that I was a bit 'sweeping' in my original post and I got quite carried away with it all (evidenced by the length of my post as always).

I know that not everyone that voted to leave is a crazy racist or a xenophobe and that not everyone that voted to leave is poorly educated or 'easily led'.

And the opposite is true too, there are plenty of dumb nutters that will have voted to stay, if only everyone was as enlightened as us eh?

 

I do stand by my statement regarding the untruths that the 'leave campaign' sold people on though, a lot of people will have voted to leave because they truly believed that all of the money that we pay to Europe as a 'membership fee' (£350M per week I believe is actually correct) would then be saved and would go to our healthcare system.

And a lot of people will have voted to leave because they believed that we would close our borders, which is simply not going to be the case. To get trade deals with Europe we will have to open our borders to migration, the more we open them then the better the trade deals - Norway has this kind of trade-off I believe.

 

I completely agree Bagsta, it would make a mockery of the democratic system if the government were to overrule the vote and would create massive problems, people are already disillusioned with our wealthy out-of-touch silver-spoon-in-the-arse political elite and overruling the vote would cause irreparable damage.

 

And you're absolutely right, BMW will not stop selling their cars to people that can't drive properly   lol'd at that.

And people will not stop buying our exports either.

It just might make things more complicated.

 

I'm more disappointed at how we have abandoned our closest neighbours, that people like my Grandfather fought with (and against) and literally put his life on the line to ensure freedom not too long ago. I'd like to add that I'm not 'getting at' Germany with that statement, I love going to Germany and I think their country and people are great.

 

I won't throw abuse at you mate (no more than usual at least), and nobody else will on here either - not unless they want Thor's 'forum hammer' to come out for a mouthy whacking.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their vote and the right to defend their position.

And whilst you have voted the opposite way to me and you are undoubtedly a mad old roadie, you're our mad old roadie.

 

By the way, I so very nearly voted to leave the EU myself - I was still deciding right up until I put that cross in the box.

Who knows, maybe it will work out for the best - I just hope it doesn't take too long for the cost of holidays to stabilise.

[bagsta69]

With regard to the £350 million pounds not getting spent on just the NHS, Anybody who truly believed that it was going to be hasn't spent enough time studying politics.

I mean how can you tell when a politician is lying? Their lips are moving.

The only person to ever enter the houses of parliament with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes and they hanged him before cutting his insides out and chopping him into four pieces.

I firmly believe that when the dust settles the United Kingdom will be a better more prosperous place to live.

I would also like to add that I have traveled and worked extensively all over Europe and love it.

Anyhow, Peace out yall.

[ColonicBoom]

With regard to the £350 million pounds not getting spent on just the NHS, Anybody who truly believed that it was going to be hasn't spent enough time studying politics.

I mean how can you tell when a politician is lying? Their lips are moving.

The only person to ever enter the houses of parliament with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes and they hanged him before cutting his insides out and chopping him into four pieces.

I firmly believe that when the dust settles the United Kingdom will be a better more prosperous place to live.

I would also like to add that I have traveled and worked extensively all over Europe and love it.

Anyhow, Peace out yall.

 

lol, good old Guy Fawkes, funny how the celebration is supposed to be over his capture and execution and yet the people actually celebrate his intentions nowadays...

 

I'm starting to think you're right Bagsta (about being better off), I hope so anyway.

A few of my most 'business minded' friends, although they voted 'remain', have been explaining the potential benefits of our departure.

I'm feeling a lot more positive about it all now that I've had a chance to calm down (and get more throwing axe kills in BO3)

[major masingil]

This is a great discussion on the matter.  Here in the states there is always a pre-planned dialog that the controlling parties place on these types of events. You can see evidence of the pre-planning by watching different news channels.  They almost all report the exact same headlines with the same wording regardless of the political affinity of the news channel doing the reporting.  Gone are the days of the media acting as the 4th Estate. It used to be considered the peoples method of participating in the checks-and-balances of the 3 branches of government.  If I actually want a journalistic impression of a major news story here,  I turn on the BBC news to hear what they say about the story. 

 

There used to be a trust given to media to actually report what was happening and give the common man real details and facts so we could use our own brains to develop an opinion on a matter.  Now the mainstream media has been consolidated into just a couple of corporations hands, and we hear what they want to tell us and not much else. In many cases reporters don't have much of a choice. Their management may actually not want them to pursue a great story because it goes against the script.  The reporter can opt to cover the story, but then they risk losing the access they need to the newsmakers by upsetting the apple cart.   Usually what happens now is the subject is polarized. The result is everyone fighting for their particular "side."  This form of manipulation drives the discussion, and by creating sides instead of opening a discussion it changes the dynamic. Human nature is to defend our "beliefs," such that once we have made up our minds that our side is correct, the communication suffers because we do not hear what the other side is saying.  So what happens when the "beliefs" actually turn out to be part of a script?  Here in the states critical thinking skills are not being used in many cases.  Most people that watch the mainstream news channels do so to have their particular set of beliefs reinforced, not to be educated on current events.  The systems are in place and entrenched.

 

Why am I saying all this shit?  Good question.  The reality of most situations of this scale is they can not be quantified upfront. It's all theory. There are so many nuances and it's pretty much impossible to determine the result until it arrives.  Case in point...last night's season finale of Game of Thrones...enough said.

 

One last thing...IMHO I would not be worried about making a mockery of the democratic system by having a re-vote.  You have this re-vote process built into your legal system.  It's not like you're making new laws to support it.  However I would consider what the good Reverend Bagsta said the other day, " there is always a period of uncertainty after a break up."  If this re-vote were happening here, I'd be worried that it would be biased by fear and uncertainty.

[secretface]

Really all BMW drivers are bad? I thought it was just here in the USA.......................