XR500. Horrible online gameplay. More lagg then opponents.

[Oppie]

XR500 V2.3.2.114. Amsterdam , Netherlands. 

 Dear Community members, 

 

First off all, I'm Dutch so English is not my language but I will try to make myself clear. 

 

I've got a lagg or latency problem for years now and I dont know what to do anymore about this problem. When I play Fifa online I always have lagg en totally unresponsive players but most of the time my opponents dont have that problem. Last week I contacted 5 players after a game and they all said It played very well but for me it was unplayable, horrible delay players just dont move as if Ea gives me 2 seconds delay. I tried everything on my router but its just horrible. On  my xr500 router and geofilter I can see my ping during the match and it is almost always good ( lower than 20 ms) I have upnp on and it will open only 1 port for Fifa. Is that the way to go and can that cause problems? That there ar not enough ports opened? The ps5 says that the nat type is 2. 

By qos I have my PS5 tot priority en bufferbloat to 75%. 

 

I'm not a specialist but there is something really wrong otherwise other players would have the same delay but in most cases its not. I even can see their players moving faster than mine. 

 

I noticed when I play a game that often the tick rate of the host is higher than the tick rate of the client. Can that be a problem? Who is the client, is that me or my opponent? In the attachment you can see what my router showed. yesterday there was a guy from my ISP and did some tests. He said everything is working fine, the signal is good so it has to be something else. How is the tick rate of the server often higher than tick rate of the client? When I asked my opponents they all had had a monitor with much higher refreshrate bud they did not do anything about their internet settings. Only cable, but often they don have the horrible delay en totally unresponsive players. In the attachment you can see what I often see when playing a game and where de lagg in game is horrible.

 

I hope you can help me because Im looking for a solution for really long now and I just want to play an online game where both players will have the same gameplay.  

 

Thanks in advance

 

[Netduma Fraser]

Hey, welcome to the forum!

Your ping is good and the tick rates are not something that can be changed from your end. What is the model of the modem the XR is connected to? Are ALL devices connected to the XR? What QoS settings are you using? UPnP generally opens ports that are needed but port forwarding is worth a try.

FIFA lag is something we've seen a lot of around here, the router does help to make the connection as consistent as possible but there does seem to be some inherent issues with the game that causes delays. Here are two topics that have some different suggestions that they say helps with this.

https://forum.netduma.com/topic/31513-fifa-20-input-delay-fix/

https://forum.netduma.com/topic/36390-fifa-strange-gameplay-issues

[N3CR0]

Back when I used to play FIFA with an online friend, both wireless and Virgin Media Superhubs... the game seemed more rigged than CoD!

I could be Real Madrid, my friend could be Ipswich Town and I'd run off with the ball and his player would run after me and catch me super fast...

Next match, I could be Ipswich Town and he's Real Madrid and he'd run off with the ball and I couldn't catch him even with a speedy player like Ronaldo!

Then you'd have times when you pass the ball to a player and it goes right thru them like they aren't even there.

Their servers are just as trash as CoD's.

[Bert]

These Virgin Media superhubs are internally equal to the ConnectBox that Ziggo uses in The Netherlands. Both equally trash. A lot of issues with VPNs/Torrents/Gaming.

[Oppie]

Thanks for the response!

 

Does refresh rate of my monitor has no influence on the tick rate? The modem router which the xr500 is connected to is the Ubee 1318ZG. This is normallly for business clients but because I had problems for years they let me try this router. Before that I had the Compal Connectbox and I did had the same problems. Also there were signal problems because of a defect coax cable and I could see that on mij Modem. They replaced it and no everything is good. There was a guy of my ISP this week and said everything is working really good now. The problem is that I got horrible lagg in game en most opponents does not have this problem. Sometimes its better and then I win all of my games but 90 % of the time it is unplayable for me. Is it normal that the tick rate of the host is so much higher than the tick rate of the client? How can this be?

 

All devices are connected to the xr500. The Ubee is in Bridge. I have around 8 devices connected. The download speed is 75 mbit en upload is 20 mbit. The PS5 got like 35% of the bandwidth for down and upload. Share excess is on and anti bufferbloat  Sliders are sett to always on 75 %. Is this good or do I need to change something? I must say that whatever I use I never got an score on dsl reports of A+. Most of the time i got A. There are often 1 or 2 spikes. 

Like i said i have upnp on but the router only opens 2 ports. 1 for playstation I think udp 9308 and 1 for Ea sports 3659. On their site the suggest way more ports, can this be the problem for this extreme delay? The nat type is 1 If I only use my ISP modem in bridge but otherwise it is 2. I know this is what you want but there is something really strange: If I disable upnp and I dont open ports and do not use dmz the nat type is still 2. How is this possible if no ports are open?

Can I open some ports and let upnp on? If I do that and I open port 9308, the router is still opening port 9308 by upnp. Is this correct? 

Is there maybe a firmware which will have the best results? 

Thanks for sharing the topics, I will try this. I know there are many issues with this game, but the problem is that after a while I got some horrible unplayble gameplay where my opponents clearly have not. You see their players running faster en smoother. How is this possible ? This makes it so unfair and I dont know why. 

Thanks again for taking the time to read this and give me tips. I appreciate that. 

 

 

[Oppie]

20 hours ago, N3CR0 said:

Back when I used to play FIFA with an online friend, both wireless and Virgin Media Superhubs... the game seemed more rigged than CoD!

I could be Real Madrid, my friend could be Ipswich Town and I'd run off with the ball and his player would run after me and catch me super fast...

Next match, I could be Ipswich Town and he's Real Madrid and he'd run off with the ball and I couldn't catch him even with a speedy player like Ronaldo!

Then you'd have times when you pass the ball to a player and it goes right thru them like they aren't even there.

Their servers are just as trash as CoD's.

Yes I know there is something really wrong with this game but I can live with that because it is in the code. What I got is unresponsive players all the time en way more lagg than my opponent and that is too frustrating. Even When I play really bad opponents it is impossible. If it then change to normal gameplay It is a totally different story but thats almost never anymore. 

[Oppie]

9 minutes ago, Bert said:

These Virgin Media superhubs are internally equal to the ConnectBox that Ziggo uses in The Netherlands. Both equally trash. A lot of issues with VPNs/Torrents/Gaming.

What do you mean by this? Im sorry Im not a specialist. Virgin media superhubs is the road that my packets will have to the server and back? Can I do something about this?

[Bert]

No but you are from The Netherlands right?

 

If you have internet from Ziggo you will have a home hub that's called 'Connect Box' which is the same thing N3CR0 mentiones, just they call it 'Virgin Super Hub' the only different is a different color and logo.

[Netduma Fraser]

No the tick rate is network related, nothing to do with the monitor. You don't need to give the console that much bandwidth as it won't use it but the settings sound fine, are you using Traffic Prioritization? It's NAT Type 2 as the modem passes everything through to the XR. You can try setting the console in the DMZ or setting NAT to Open in WAN Settings or Port Forwarding, they may not make much difference though. You could try the 3.0 beta firmware if you like: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-Pro-Gaming-DumaOS-3-0/New-Firmware-v2-3-2-120-XR500/td-p/2071196

[Vipeeeer]

Unfortunately I’ve stopped using the netduma as the gameplay on there is appalling, I find more success just using my normal router. This is all after I switched from virgin media to zen, but the netduma does not help for fifa not like it use to anyway

[Netduma Fraser]

10 minutes ago, Vipeeeer said:

Unfortunately I’ve stopped using the netduma as the gameplay on there is appalling, I find more success just using my normal router. This is all after I switched from virgin media to zen, but the netduma does not help for fifa not like it use to anyway

If you want to reply to the topic you made a while ago to the suggestions we made we'll be happy to help you further

[Oppie]

22 hours ago, Bert said:

No but you are from The Netherlands right?

 

If you have internet from Ziggo you will have a home hub that's called 'Connect Box' which is the same thing N3CR0 mentiones, just they call it 'Virgin Super Hub' the only different is a different color and logo.

Yes I have internet form Ziggo. Other options are not really there. Only adsl but most of the time that wont get me a better connection right?  Only low bandwidt is available. Im using a Ubee 1318ZG though and not the connectbox. They let me switch that. Does that make things better?

 

Yesterday I switch from the xr500 to my old router the netgear r7000. Did some advanced QOS with uplink 5 mbit less than maximum and priority to ps5. For the first time in a year I got A+ at dsl reports. The difference in gameplay in FiFa was really noticable. I won every game. Too bad that now it is gone wrong again. No good grades en gameplay is back to horrible. I dont get it because If I got the QOs good working and the ping stays really low then you immediately see that in game. Now it is not working anymore

 

How can I make the best settings for qos in the xr500? What makes the bufferbloat is still not optimized even with qos? @Netduma Fraser I use traffic prioritization. I think I had in on default, classified games by netduma and also put my ps5 there. Is that the way to go? Should I let share excess bandwidth checked or give every device a specific amount of bandwith? The console in dmz and nat filters to open did not made a difference.

 

Im thinking about the 3.0 firmware. Could this help with qos ?

 

[Bert]

Yes I have the UB1318ZG as well and that is much better. Much lower jitter and a far more stable connection.

 

I used to have all sorts of problems with the Connect Box and they went away with that Ubee modem.

 

Problem with QoS on Ziggo connections is that your link speed is not always constant. Like I have the 600 mbit subscription but if the network is crowded you will maybe get 300mbit. You can't really tune your QoS to that. I normally have it set to 540 up 35 down or something. I never get good scores for bufferbloat also because how these Ubee modems react, but in games like CoD it's not noticable and connection is really good.

[Netduma Fraser]

Good advice above, do you experience this variance in your speeds as well? You don't need to focus on Bufferbloat so much, bufferbloat only occurs when the connection is saturated and using the QoS that won't happen. Traffic Prioritization is good, those settings are fine, would not recommend disabling Share Excess. You could try the 3.0 beta, the QoS isn't necessarily different on that version but it is the most up to date. If you had a good experience on the other router and then it went badly again then it is probably not a network issue on your side.

[Oppie]

4 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Good advice above, do you experience this variance in your speeds as well? You don't need to focus on Bufferbloat so much, bufferbloat only occurs when the connection is saturated and using the QoS that won't happen. Traffic Prioritization is good, those settings are fine, would not recommend disabling Share Excess. You could try the 3.0 beta, the QoS isn't necessarily different on that version but it is the most up to date. If you had a good experience on the other router and then it went badly again then it is probably not a network issue on your side.

Thanks for the advice. I switched back to the xr500 with the new firmware. Every router gave me a different kind of delayed gameplay. What is really noticable on the xr500 is that every game in Fifa I have big drops in the ping. It goes from 20 till 90 at least 5 times a game and you really see and feel that in game. I Dont get that with the other routers, even if I let everything on default after a reset. How is this possible? There clearly has to be something what I can do. 

@BertWhat you sad about difference in internetspeeds when it is crowded: On the ps5 the speeds are often very different but if I test just from my phone or laptop the speeds almost always are what I should get from my ISP. The downloadspeed without qos gives extreme delay. http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/69894340 . Cant this be the problem and what to do about it? I tried so many things for so long and the frustrating thing is that sometime after a reset or new settings it is working for a while but later it is back on this horrible delayed mode where other players most of the time does not have that experience or lagg. Do you use the ube box also in bridge mode? I notice in game not so much at this time only sometime I I do a reset an new Qos settings it is working how it should be but always shortly. 

If I can do anything else or test some things please let me know. Thanks in advance

[Bert]

If you look at your results you see that you also get 800ms spikes under idle. This could indicate that there is still some issue on your line. On idle these connections should not produce such enormous spikes.

 

I use the Ubee in bridge mode with a XR700 at the moment, before that a XR500.

 

Better measure is pingplotter:

 

That's 3 speedtests in a row where the last one produced the highest result. The ping spike only occurs when downloading.

 

When your connection is idle, the graph should stay flat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Netduma Liam]

9 hours ago, Oppie said:

Thanks for the advice. I switched back to the xr500 with the new firmware. Every router gave me a different kind of delayed gameplay. What is really noticable on the xr500 is that every game in Fifa I have big drops in the ping. It goes from 20 till 90 at least 5 times a game and you really see and feel that in game. I Dont get that with the other routers, even if I let everything on default after a reset. How is this possible? There clearly has to be something what I can do. 

@BertWhat you sad about difference in internetspeeds when it is crowded: On the ps5 the speeds are often very different but if I test just from my phone or laptop the speeds almost always are what I should get from my ISP. The downloadspeed without qos gives extreme delay. http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/69894340 . Cant this be the problem and what to do about it? I tried so many things for so long and the frustrating thing is that sometime after a reset or new settings it is working for a while but later it is back on this horrible delayed mode where other players most of the time does not have that experience or lagg. Do you use the ube box also in bridge mode? I notice in game not so much at this time only sometime I I do a reset an new Qos settings it is working how it should be but always shortly. 

If I can do anything else or test some things please let me know. Thanks in advance

Your getting this ping spikes with QoS enabled and setup as your described? If so, that can only really be either an issue with the server itself or your line. 

[UK Sentinel]

If all the good advice above does not help improve your game-play, try re flashing to Firmware  Version 2.3.2.66 and Factory reset.

My Son is Xbox Series X with Fifa 22 (wired) and with this firmware Version, very few disconnects, no speed up lag etc and Generally OK.

We have double NAT another wireless router of the XR500, just to provide wireless and parental control requirements and have disable Geo-Filter,  but have used the XR500 QoS with Console added to list .

Hope this helps ?

[lagcist]

About the bufferbloat I don’t know what to do with my xr500. I think I bought the wrong dumaos because of stupid google shopping engine. it doesn’t have auto setup in the congestion control compared to netduma r2 3.0.205 which is all I have seen on YouTube that made me invest on the router. All I wanted to do was chop the underload ping but I can not access auto setup on the xr500. I have dumaos 3.0 beta or should I downgrade or buy netduma r2 for that feature?

[Netduma Fraser]

3 hours ago, lagcist said:

About the bufferbloat I don’t know what to do with my xr500. I think I bought the wrong dumaos because of stupid google shopping engine. it doesn’t have auto setup in the congestion control compared to netduma r2 3.0.205 which is all I have seen on YouTube that made me invest on the router. All I wanted to do was chop the underload ping but I can not access auto setup on the xr500. I have dumaos 3.0 beta or should I downgrade or buy netduma r2 for that feature?

I've responded to your topic.

[sytch4u]

Netduma will not fix the input delay for Fifa, the issue is with EA the servers they use are trash and overloaded. They have been using the same infrastructure for 10 years and haven't changed it. The netduma will just filter out servers and opponents you don't want to connect to.

[Oppie]

Thanks everybody for the advice!

@sytch4u I know what the Netdumo does, and I also know that a big part of the problem is with ea and their horrible servers, but what I decribed above is something else. I have most of the time more delay than my opponents, it is clearly noticeable in game and if I ask them they say that gameplay was good and responsive. There is something wrong on my connection( see the ping spikes and extreme bufferbloat, sometime ping of 800 ms idle) or my connection through their servers. 

@Netduma Fraser

On 10/28/2021 at 8:59 PM, Netduma Fraser said:

Good advice above, do you experience this variance in your speeds as well? You don't need to focus on Bufferbloat so much, bufferbloat only occurs when the connection is saturated and using the QoS that won't happen. Traffic Prioritization is good, those settings are fine, would not recommend disabling Share Excess. You could try the 3.0 beta, the QoS isn't necessarily different on that version but it is the most up to date. If you had a good experience on the other router and then it went badly again then it is probably not a network issue on your side.

Yes I do but not If I test by wifi on my phone or laptop. I have more ping spikes also noticeable in pingplotter and also in the new firmware form netduma. In Ductch: Benchmark voor aansluiting: You can test now speed, ping and ping under load. I gues for this test they disable Qos ? Speeds are the max which I can get, ping is also ok but ping under load is with download around 256 ms. In game it feels if my ping is 256 ms so its hard for me not to focus on bufferbloat, but If you say that is not the problem then I will look to other things. What do you mean with : "If you had a good experience on the other router and then it went badly again then it is probably not a network issue on your side" ?  For me it looks like that If I have the right settings enabled or router it will work better so that's why I'm looking for a solution. And also the big difference in latency my opponents have most of the time. Last question, If I see the data in game sometimes the tick rate of the server is higher then tick rate of the client. Am I the client or is that my opponent? Because to me it looks like that both tick rates shoudle be equal?

@Bert Thanks for sharing your results! Yes the ping spikes of 800 ms is crazy but that was only on the xr500 and no QOS. I changed all the equipment, ISP replaced almost everything and the signal was good the last weeks so that could not be the problem for the last weeks. I also use pingplotter and will do some tests this week to see what happened. I will check if the line stays flat when my connection is Idle. 

@Netduma Liam Yes I'm getting these ping spike with qos enabled and setup as I described. It is a little bit better now and less spikes in game and the gameplay is a bit more stable. With QOS enabled I got now this score: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/69922116  . Is this good or still to high ping?  This is for me the max I can get with this netdumo router. 

@UK Sentinel Thanks for the advice. Now I have the new firmware and will try this week if it will be better then before. If not I will try version 2.3.2.66 and Factory reset. To improve my gameplay is not the problem or impossible with this lagg. If you experience this often one sided delay and unresponsiveness you would not say that. For example, last week with this horrible delay I cant do anything, especially when my players cant move and the opponent can move quickly. Even against with respect players who play in div 5 or 6 it is almost impossible to win. A few days ago I did a reset and  it switched to normal responsive gameplay. In game also no spikes. I played 10 games and won every game I played in division 1 with 2 or more goals difference. Even If the gameplay got slower, it is more difficult but I can see that me and me opponent has around the same delay or unresponsive players. The problem is when I got this delay and my opponent not or less. I asked so many persons after a game and most say that for them it played very well and responsive. 

 

[Netduma Liam]

@Oppie This is better, are you now on the 3.0 beta? I'd be interested to see how Connection Benchmark reports this.

[Oppie]

On 11/1/2021 at 5:45 PM, Netduma Liam said:

@Oppie This is better, are you now on the 3.0 beta? I'd be interested to see how Connection Benchmark reports this.

Yes I'm on the 3.0 Beta version. The Connection Benchmark results are always: Speedtest A+, pingtest A+ and Ping test under load D. By ping under load the upload is 28 ms and down is 225 ms average and goes up to 375 ms. But I think they will measure this with qos disabled is that right? Because by Speedtest I see my maximum down and upload speed, not the speeds I get with Gos enabled. If I do another speedtest or bufferbloat test on another site you see what I get normally with Qos set to 70 %. 

So does Dumaos by measuring of the ping under load disabled qos for this test? Otherwise Qos isnt even working but that is strange because on other sites or on my ps5 you see that it is enabled by the speeds I got and also on dsl reports you see a big difference with QOS enabled and disabled. 

[Netduma Liam]

1 hour ago, Oppie said:

Yes I'm on the 3.0 Beta version. The Connection Benchmark results are always: Speedtest A+, pingtest A+ and Ping test under load D. By ping under load the upload is 28 ms and down is 225 ms average and goes up to 375 ms. But I think they will measure this with qos disabled is that right? Because by Speedtest I see my maximum down and upload speed, not the speeds I get with Gos enabled. If I do another speedtest or bufferbloat test on another site you see what I get normally with Qos set to 70 %. 

So does Dumaos by measuring of the ping under load disabled qos for this test? Otherwise Qos isnt even working but that is strange because on other sites or on my ps5 you see that it is enabled by the speeds I got and also on dsl reports you see a big difference with QOS enabled and disabled. 

No the under load results should be with QoS enabled, so your results don't sound right there.

So you've got both sliders set to 70% and Congestion Control set to 'Always', right?

What are your current bandwidth speeds? Apologies if you've mentioned this already.