bbursley Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 So, this is probably a pretty obvious question. But first of all, if there is jitter on your router at the starting point where data is leaving, does this jitter continue all the way through the whole connection and then stacking on with extra jitter along the way? Or is it minimized when it reaches the different routes on its way? Can jitter actually be countered? For example is it ever possible that the netduma could build in a feature where it treats line jitter along the way? I'm not sure exactly how it would do that but just a question I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netduma Staff Netduma Jack Posted January 12, 2017 Netduma Staff Share Posted January 12, 2017 Jitter can build up; the quality of the line at any point in the connection affects the intensity of jitter. Fortunately, we're developing a neat thing called 'anti-jitter' (alongside 'anti-spike') which are going to be included in DumaOS; our free major overhaul coming this year. As far as I know, nobody has managed to completely eradicate jitter, but we're going to be among the first to properly tackle it. Do you have jitter problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex49H Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Jitter is the worst!!! Yesterday it was really bad for some reason. The new features in the new DumaOS are going to help me out sooooooo much!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netduma Staff Netduma Jack Posted January 13, 2017 Netduma Staff Share Posted January 13, 2017 Jitter is the worst!!! Yesterday it was really bad for some reason. The new features in the new DumaOS are going to help me out sooooooo much!!! At the minute there's not much the Netduma can do about it; it's usually indicative of a line problem (Usually the line between the ISP and the box in the street) so all you can really try to do yourself is switch out your wire. If it's wireless jitter then it's worth wiring that device up. Glad to hear though, I can't wait for anti-jitter to come into its own. (I've no idea how "anti-jitter" works... Iain's a sorcerer as far as I'm concerned.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Jitter that you have control of firstly by using the congestion control feature to stop local congestion (other users streaming, downloading, surfing etc) that creates local jitter. Sometimes bad CPU's or bad implementation of firmware in modem/routers cause jitter, bad cables, bad filters, duff master sockets all of which you can diagnose and fix. Then there is jitter caused by ISP congestion / contention or a line fault outside of your property which is out of your hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy clam Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 As Z said some jitter you can you can try and find and fix yourself and some you can't. If you have cable more than likely the jitter is caused by node overload on one of your hops from your ISP,which was my issue.I took the time to document it for them and showed them exactly where the issue was occurring,which unfortunately fell on deaf ears, they didn't want to hear it.As long as your getting 85-90 percent of the speeds they promised, then your internet is working just fine according to them. Hopefully your jitter issue is something you can find and fix yourself as Z said cables,modem etc and not a line issue. But the new OS should be coming out in the near future (no date yet) and hopefully that will help all of us who struggle with this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BENORMOUS Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I've never been so eager to test out a new feature than I have with the anti jitter/spike I'm in serious need of it too i feel everyone's pain apart from Zennon who has the God line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Ive had some serious issues in my time Ben, a dropping line from high EMI and REIN eating all my SNRM every night until my line cut out. An ECI modem that gave me insane jitter, ive just diagnosed until ive got to this place now of a jitter free line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc683 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Hi I have been a owner-user of the mighty dumas imence piece of equipment through Virgin medias superhub2 now superhub3 in modem mode tried upnp &port forward.for some time now withno relevant gameplay however I believe the issues I have are somewhat hair-taring frustratingly annoying..the geo location never shows I'm in the UK.no matter what I try.iv also lived 3 different addresses made no difference still always says I'm located in another country.when I do speed test it says my server location Is Germany even though I'm connected to Virgin media's server in Manchester no matter what restrictions I put it always shows Germany on the one of apps I use to network testing.the other is the jitter tests are awful never below 150-1000 every time I do a latency-Jitter test latency great at 60-75ms I play fia17-bops3-gta5 on xb1..i play iw-mw ps4 with both consoles open Nats type 2.but the gaming side doesn't fill the results it's choppy slow still feels like something is just stopping the games on each platform working as they should or as I see other people's ratio's ratings and results to what is happening to my results spectating people on cod seeing people have 30-40 kills in each cod tdm but yet I can barley get 5 kills.its beginning to bring to my attention that I feel like I am been cheated as the connection is perfect and settings are correct bit I just truly don't know what to try next and truthfully I think Iv reset my duma to default so many times it forgotten how to work I have all evidence of fifa results k/D ratio's no dramas in showing as it cannot be anymore embarrassing to what people do to me on a daily hourly basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc683 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Tests are never below 150 ms no one else using the router there sure are jitter issues but what can I do to stop such high results I need to show someone how do I upload pics/screenshots.even each time I run a full network test using my network tool nPerf it shows I'm either connecting to the server in a different country I.e France Germany etc even though when I run speed.net it says I'm connected to Virgin media's server in Manchester which I think these issues are related to the first boot configured location of the duma.when I change it to UK where I live is when the issues begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbursley Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Yes I do suffer from some jitter. Most of it which is actually beyond my control, by doing a line test at DSL reports I see that a major amount of jitter actually occurs at the hops outside of my ISP. Now of course this can all vary from time to time depending on ISP issues be it congestion (highly unlikely) or routing issues which is where I see most of it coming from. Of course there's not alot you can do as far as I know about routing issues outside of your ISP, at least none that I've ever known of or asked of. I thought about a VPN and while that would make my ping higher for sure I was thinking maybe if it the data was routed to a server with a fiber optic connection and better routing then my connection could be stabilized. But I feel like it doesn't actually work that way. But yes, along the way I see like a millisecond of jitter here or a half millisecond of jitter on that hop. So for instance if I ping to Virginia server on speed test I generally get about 29-30ms ping with another 4-5ms jitter. Not to awful for a DSL connection but when it comes to hit detection and the way lag compensation works it can tend to screw me over big time. I'm usually that guy with the 4 bar connection to basically every lobby but still having bullets not registering right or I get melted by the dumbest gunfights when I shoot first. I find that even with my local congestion under control I tend to lose gunfights to people with cable or fiber, however if at any moment my connection is stable for a second they will lose a gunfight to me. Anywho I asked Sim about this on his YouTube video and he stated that the anti-jitter and spike wzs congestion control related not that you were developing it specifically for the purpose I asked for (which is basically is) and basically what I assumed it would be for as we already have most of that local jitter under control. Of course the new QoS on duma OS is likely to be better but I am more excited for this feature than I think I am for any other feature coming yet and literally am dying to try it and hope it helps. So far QoS has helped a bit and I know it does because before when people would stream YouTube ID get constant instant deaths, with the QoS even at any percentage I stand a way better chance than I did on a standard router even the speedy Asus router was no good for my connection for those matters. They work better for fiber or very high speed cable connections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Do not worry about jitter on any hop other than the destination as long as that is steady there is no issue. Without seeing the plots that is just advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSXS Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I had similar issue a few years ago. I noticed my pings and jitter would be bad in the evenings. I Thought it was because of more people were on the node causing congestion but it was actually my modem! When they installed my modem they stuffed it in my network panel with no air flow so it was getting warmer than usual. I wall mounted it so there was air flow and that made a night and day difference! Pings were consistent and lower and jitter was considerable better. Back then I was playing Bops/MW3 and what a huge difference in game play! Also it is a very good idea to check all your termination points and cabling on your network. i.e wall jacks, RG6 connectors but I think you have DSL so you may not even have any RG6 termination points. I redid all my jacks and RG6 connectors for my network. Pro installers don't care about the quality of the connector they just spliced on but how fast they can do it and if it works, its good! Another issue I noticed, one of my RG6 connectors was getting pretty warm to the touch on the back of my modem. I noticed it was another bad crimp job so I redid it and now it is barely even warm to the touch and that is when I redid them all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbursley Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Yeah the jitter I get is always there. It sucks because I think of all the things that really ruin the experience the most it's that because games have a poorer interpretation of where you actually are as far as how lag compensation makes you appear and hit detection. If course it all ties in together but my ping is never usually the major issue. Usually 28ms to East coat dedis for cod. But that jitter just makes it awful. Some matches seem to not be as bad and I'm not sure why, like idk if I'm just grabbing host because I'll feel nearly unstoppable infinite warfare is just the worst though with all the bs gunfights and AMD whatnot. Either way im still praying for dumaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted January 15, 2017 Administrators Share Posted January 15, 2017 Hi I have been a owner-user of the mighty dumas imence piece of equipment through Virgin medias superhub2 now superhub3 in modem mode tried upnp &port forward.for some time now withno relevant gameplay however I believe the issues I have are somewhat hair-taring frustratingly annoying..the geo location never shows I'm in the UK.no matter what I try.iv also lived 3 different addresses made no difference still always says I'm located in another country.when I do speed test it says my server location Is Germany even though I'm connected to Virgin media's server in Manchester no matter what restrictions I put it always shows Germany on the one of apps I use to network testing.the other is the jitter tests are awful never below 150-1000 every time I do a latency-Jitter test latency great at 60-75ms I play fia17-bops3-gta5 on xb1..i play iw-mw ps4 with both consoles open Nats type 2.but the gaming side doesn't fill the results it's choppy slow still feels like something is just stopping the games on each platform working as they should or as I see other people's ratio's ratings and results to what is happening to my results spectating people on cod seeing people have 30-40 kills in each cod tdm but yet I can barley get 5 kills.its beginning to bring to my attention that I feel like I am been cheated as the connection is perfect and settings are correct bit I just truly don't know what to try next and truthfully I think Iv reset my duma to default so many times it forgotten how to work I have all evidence of fifa results k/D ratio's no dramas in showing as it cannot be anymore embarrassing to what people do to me on a daily hourly basis Tests are never below 150 ms no one else using the router there sure are jitter issues but what can I do to stop such high results I need to show someone how do I upload pics/screenshots.even each time I run a full network test using my network tool nPerf it shows I'm either connecting to the server in a different country I.e France Germany etc even though when I run speed.net it says I'm connected to Virgin media's server in Manchester which I think these issues are related to the first boot configured location of the duma.when I change it to UK where I live is when the issues begin. Please make your own thread with the screenshots asked for here: http://support.netduma.com/support/solutions/articles/16000022425-lag-support-instructions-to-post-on-the-forum- How to take & upload screenshots: http://support.netduma.com/support/solutions/articles/16000022394-how-do-i-take-a-screenshot- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbursley Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 My question is, and maybe you can't tell us the exact science of it but how does this new feature actually counter jitter and spikes? My jitter isn't high but it's enough to not make my bullets register big time depending on the net code being used. For instance I find that call of duty aw, it's awful. Ghosts, it's more often than not great. I have pretty great hit detection on that game despite the jitter, I do get those wtf moments because of it though, pulling host helps immensely though (will this also help when getting host).black ops 3 well because of the jitter sometimes I'm melting like a normal kill and sometimes I'm getting instant deaths and sometimes it's just hit markers, it's really frustrating. Infinite warfare is the worst despite somehow having over a 2kd still I get those moments more often than not where because of the jitter someones health only drops by about 80% while I'm dropping quickly in return. I'm assuming this is because with jitter the game just can't register correctly how many bullets are actually being shot idk. Either way I am so pumped for this feature more than anything else. Im assuming this has been tested many many times to make sure for consistent results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 When people sponge or judder and your line is clean of jitter then it is their networks that are overloaded by family members with out a good QOS/ congestion control and they have high jitter. Also I think that out of sync games are because of high jitter players as the algorithm gives them to much ping compensation, then their family members stop streaming giving hundreds of ms advantage. These are my thoughts and not that of Netduma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted January 19, 2017 Administrators Share Posted January 19, 2017 My question is, and maybe you can't tell us the exact science of it but how does this new feature actually counter jitter and spikes? My jitter isn't high but it's enough to not make my bullets register big time depending on the net code being used. For instance I find that call of duty aw, it's awful. Ghosts, it's more often than not great. I have pretty great hit detection on that game despite the jitter, I do get those wtf moments because of it though, pulling host helps immensely though (will this also help when getting host).black ops 3 well because of the jitter sometimes I'm melting like a normal kill and sometimes I'm getting instant deaths and sometimes it's just hit markers, it's really frustrating. Infinite warfare is the worst despite somehow having over a 2kd still I get those moments more often than not where because of the jitter someones health only drops by about 80% while I'm dropping quickly in return. I'm assuming this is because with jitter the game just can't register correctly how many bullets are actually being shot idk. Either way I am so pumped for this feature more than anything else. Im assuming this has been tested many many times to make sure for consistent results. If interested you can read a bit more about it here: https://netduma.com/blog/announcement-unveiling-the-worlds-greatest-qos/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbursley Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 My line always has jitter. I've bought a new modem and still persists. Although it did help alot of the horrible deaths I was getting a skipping. Jitter still exists for me. It sucks because I remember having time Warner cable and jitter was a rare occurrence and now that I've moved jitter is a constant issue for me. Even though my pings are generally normal in comparison to time Warner cable maybe sometimes a little worse the jitter breaks most games for me. I read somewhere that if you get over 5ms jitter then online games to not operate correctly. Well it's true. Because usually I'm seeing about 3-5+Ms jitter no matter where I ping to I can even screen shot and show you on dslreports all the IPS it ping and jitter it shows, even though the netduma apparently says my jitter is excellent or whatever it says I can tell the games have trouble compensating where I am in real time, just by the weird lag feeling and bullets not registering. Maybe lag compensation is why I do better in ghosts because it can compensate a jittery connection much better than say black ops 3 where line stability is crucial to having a great experience on there. I always wondered how 3 bar players were dropping me so easy even when I can 4 bar every lobby I get into well this explains why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbursley Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 I have seen that QoS page that explains the features, I was talking about more of the one coming in duma OS with the anti-jitter as far as what's experienced on the line, according to netduma Jack anyways. I was wondering how that will actually work as it is not even the same as what anti-jitter and antispike on QoS actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted January 19, 2017 Administrators Share Posted January 19, 2017 You'll have to wait and see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc683 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 on 1 please I'm having same issues as roberto2212 with all fifas.im now not on Virgin media but bt and it's worse I'd like a replacement or refund the records are a embarrassment.i can no longernger take the fact I Wath people out there using the r1 going 60-0 kd when every setting I use or thread instructions.or isp just can not seem to get anywhere near to 2 kills without dieing or every game of fifa I lose Iv played 200 games of fifa and lost 169 don't tell me that something is not wrong when the games I effectively win or do good in seems to not be through the R1 And yes I get lag in games all sorts of frame drops every second in fifa.cods every setting I use its a joke I can't describe how bad my experience is please someone or something log into this router and solve this.or on a serious note as ex mod il be looking to take action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted February 12, 2017 Administrators Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 on 1 please I'm having same issues as roberto2212 with all fifas.im now not on Virgin media but bt and it's worse I'd like a replacement or refund the records are a embarrassment.i can no longernger take the fact I Wath people out there using the r1 going 60-0 kd when every setting I use or thread instructions.or isp just can not seem to get anywhere near to 2 kills without dieing or every game of fifa I lose Iv played 200 games of fifa and lost 169 don't tell me that something is not wrong when the games I effectively win or do good in seems to not be through the R1 And yes I get lag in games all sorts of frame drops every second in fifa.cods every setting I use its a joke I can't describe how bad my experience is please someone or something log into this router and solve this.or on a serious note as ex mod il be looking to take action You made your own thread but did not respond to let us know if your issue has been resolved. How are we supposed to help if you do not ask? We guarantee the best connection possible when setup correctly. We cannot diagnose your routers performance based on kills and deaths. Please make a new topic including the screenshots asked for here and we will be happy to help you: http://support.netduma.com/support/solutions/articles/16000022425-lag-support-instructions-to-post-on-the-forum- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy clam Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 1 on 1 please I'm having same issues as roberto2212 with all fifas.im now not on Virgin media but bt and it's worse I'd like a replacement or refund the records are a embarrassment.i can no longernger take the fact I Wath people out there using the r1 going 60-0 kd when every setting I use or thread instructions.or isp just can not seem to get anywhere near to 2 kills without dieing or every game of fifa I lose Iv played 200 games of fifa and lost 169 don't tell me that something is not wrong when the games I effectively win or do good in seems to not be through the R1 And yes I get lag in games all sorts of frame drops every second in fifa.cods every setting I use its a joke I can't describe how bad my experience is please someone or something log into this router and solve this.or on a serious note as ex mod il be looking to take action As Fraser said it's hard to help someone if they don't provide the necessary info. And keep the threats to yourself,they are not necessary and definitely not the way to go about getting help. Post the info asked for and leave the threats out of your posts as it will get you no where. Lots of people more than willing to help you out but we have to have something more than "I can't get more than 2 kills without getting killed" or "I lose every game of FIFA" There can be other factors involved,ISP,set up, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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