Think i'm done...

[slashformayor]

Looking at selling the R1 on now as i just cannot get on with it.

 

It's host filtering works fine, but i am unable lately i am still experiencing lag spikes/latency problems while playing Black Ops 3 (xbox).

 

I started a thread a while ago about trying to cascade the router with the Superhub, as i get 200 down, 20 up from that, whereas i have never gotten above 50 down 14 up through the R1. Coupled with the 2G wifi which although worked, i was having regular lag spikes while streaming to my laptop.

 

I understand that my setup is probably unique to me, i also understand that streaming from the xbox app on my laptop also kind of undermines the point of using the R1 due to introducing more latency/lag. However, i can do this perfectly fine through the Virgin Superhub using it's 5Ghz wifi. It all points to the R1 having the problem. I get full speeds (+/- 10mbps) at all times of the day through wifi speed tests, whereas i only get 1/4 that from the R1. I have run though all the "fine tuning" guides and troubleshooting pages on the wiki numerous times, but nothing changes. Running the intergrated test mode shows everything as 'exceptional' yet i still find myself with a latency of over 150ms ping from the Xbox tests, and while playing the game, probably feels about right with people killing me through walls, or dying before i even see the enemy etc. Ping tests on the superhub show no packet loss and a 9ms ping.

 

Recently i bought a pair of powerlines, just to try them out with the R1, and i still get 'Network Quality' issues, although not quite as bad as the R1 wifi, still makes the game bearly playable.

 

In summary, i cannot recommend this to anyone who pays for high bandwidth internet, as the R1 just cannot run at these speeds. Even though i am connecting to local peers (0 ping assist, 700km radius) i still get lag spikes and a higher than average latency. Meaning that instead of 'Dominating', i might get 1 decent game out of 7 or 8. For the money i paid i may as well just use the superhub directly.

 

This is only my experience. If you find yours runs fine, well good on you, then i must be in the minority.

[iAmMoDBoX]

I have 180/10 internet and if you set it up right you'll get those speeds because I do.

[slashformayor]

I have 180/10 internet and if you set it up right you'll get those speeds because I do.

This is kind of my point though, i'm not exactly a novice with computers, or even networking, and no matter how i set it up, following the wiki guides or not, I cannot get it to run at decent speeds. I'm not just talking about streaming either, i mean when i'm gaming on the main TV downstairs, with just the Xbox wired to the R1 and wifi off, i still get random lag spikes etc.

 

I was not expecting to lead every single lobby, i just wanted to give myself the best possible connection i could, unfortunately i cannot make this happen.

[iAmMoDBoX]

This is kind of my point though, i'm not exactly a novice with computers, or even networking, and no matter how i set it up, following the wiki guides or not, I cannot get it to run at decent speeds. I'm not just talking about streaming either, i mean when i'm gaming on the main TV downstairs, with just the Xbox wired to the R1 and wifi off, i still get random lag spikes etc.

 

I was not expecting to lead every single lobby, i just wanted to give myself the best possible connection i could, unfortunately i cannot make this happen.

 

 

From your previous posts it seems like you're over complicating your network... With the newest update you just type in your bandwidth and hit update and it will configure the router to work with those speeds. Obviously you can't get 200 Mbps over 2.4ghz wifi so if you expect that it's impossible. Plus doing a speed test from the xbox or in the xbox settings will be wrong every time anyway.

[slashformayor]

From your previous posts it seems like you're over complicating your network... With the newest update you just type in your bandwidth and hit update and it will configure the router to work with those speeds. Obviously you can't get 200 Mbps over 2.4ghz wifi so if you expect that it's impossible. Plus doing a speed test from the xbox or in the xbox settings will be wrong every time anyway.

I have since simplified the network as what i wanted to acheive was not possible. Cascading the routers meant i could stream the xbox over 5Ghz however host filtering was not available. So i have since simplyfied it to have the xbox running through the R1 then onto the hub, everything else connects directly to the hub, so only my laptop (when streaming) and the xbox are running through the R1. I'm running the latest Firmware, and have updated the bandwidth to 200 / 20. Speed tests are done via Ookla's online speedtest, not the xbox. This is both wired and wireless. I am aware of the limits of 2.4Ghz, hence my experience with trying to cascade the routers for 5Ghz functionality. I have used over 5 different cat 5e, 6 and even 7 cables in different ports.

 

[iAmMoDBoX]

I have since simplified the network as what i wanted to acheive was not possible. Cascading the routers meant i could stream the xbox over 5Ghz however host filtering was not available. So i have since simplyfied it to have the xbox running through the R1 then onto the hub, everything else connects directly to the hub, so only my laptop (when streaming) and the xbox are running through the R1. I'm running the latest Firmware, and have updated the bandwidth to 200 / 20. Speed tests are done via Ookla's online speedtest, not the xbox. This is both wired and wireless. I am aware of the limits of 2.4Ghz, hence my experience with trying to cascade the routers for 5Ghz functionality. I have used over 5 different cat 5e, 6 and even 7 cables in different ports.

 

 

Did you reset distribution and put the sliders to 100%?

[slashformayor]

Did you reset distribution and put the sliders to 100%?

I have tried altering the distribution in different ways, and also resetting it. Sliders are always at 100%. Xbox is in the hyperlane.

[Zennon]

The word that jumps out at me in your post is Virgin as many can to contest to on this very site, that are an oversubscribed network with high jitter.

 

I will let the members tell you more about their troubles with them.

 

For some it has become real bad lately for high jitter.

 

I would run ping plotter on an evening around 830 onwards to check your ISP first.

[slashformayor]

The word that jumps out at me in your post is Virgin as many can to contest to on this very site, that are an oversubscribed network with high jitter.

 

I will let the members tell you more about their troubles with them.

 

For some it has become real bad lately for high jitter.

 

I would run ping plotter on an evening around 830 onwards to check your ISP first.

I have just been readig some of the more recent posts regarding this, and if this is the case then i will on the phone to cancel. Problem is i may still be under contract so selling the R1 may still be the better option.

[Urge]

I have 180/10 internet and if you set it up right you'll get those speeds because I do.

 

Also make sure you have Turbo (possibly Super Turbo Mode; can't remember how high each goes) selected in Settings/Miscellaneous.  Also have Reactive ticked and not pre-emptive.  I don't always get my speeds because my provider blows, but have managed to get my full 150 down before.    But even with the speeds you mentioned, that wouldn't affect your gaming experience.  It's most likely what Zennon mentioned and a jitter problem with Virgin.

[slashformayor]

Also make sure you have Turbo (possibly Super Turbo Mode; can't remember how high each goes) selected in Settings/Miscellaneous.  Also have Reactive ticked and not pre-emptive.  I don't always get my speeds because my provider blows, but have managed to get my full 150 down before.    But even with the speeds you mentioned, that wouldn't affect your gaming experience.  It's most likely what Zennon mentioned and a jitter problem with Virgin.

All this is mentioned within the Fine Tuning Wiki guide, and i have followed it to a T. Turbo and Super Turbo are enabled, and Super Turbo disables CC anyway.

[Macca65]

I was with Virgin and had 150/12' and always managed to get those speeds through the Netduma. Virgin do throttle their speeds during peak periods as I used to get drops in speed during peak periods.

 

I have recently moved over to BT and although my speeds are a lot lower 38/9 I don't have that horrendous jitter that I had previously and am actually enjoying gaming again

[ColonicBoom]

I'm am the vocal Virgin user in question I suspect and I can confirm that it is their service rather than my equipment, my setup, or the game itself...

I have tried multiple network cables, two routers, two computers, and even with the hub in modem mode (the norm) and a single network cable connecting only my laptop my connection is still rats.

 

I've had an engineer out to look and he confirmed "you have a problem and I can't fix it, every call out today is going to be about this, it's the network"

 

 

The red packet loss is me installing the new super hub and the second red is me enabling modem-mode and making a hash of it - this new hub also enabled the 'speed upgrade' from 60/3 to 150/10

 

The graph before the red shows what it was like on Virgin's 60/3 service and it was like that every day more or less (not too terrible) but I was still stuttering, dropping frames, dying round corners, needing to fire extra bullets, dying in one bullet, occasionally rubber banding, spiking, jittering, etc. Plenty of WTF moments per session (per game for the most part).

 

The graph after the red shows what it became immediately after installing the new super hub with Virgin' 150/10 service - I actually get 180/10 most of time which is exactly what ModBox said, these speeds are definitely possible with the Netduma because I also get them.

But on this new connection with Virgin, BO3 has become pretty much unplayable now.

 

It's like 'launch day connection' + 'double xp weekend' + 'being connected to all Italian gamers' all of the time (no offence Italy but your connection is rats). I get maybe one game in ten where I can actually hold my own, the rest of the time I get totally destroyed by the scrubbiest of scrubs. The visible lag is ridiculous, I rubber band frequently, I die when I know someone is coming even if I fire before they get there before they even appear on my screen, the whole game stutters about, I get booted, I am constantly killed with one bullet to the foot. It's horrible.

 

My jitter has at least tripled and my ping has doubled to bbc and 8.8.8.8, there is not a single hop in the network that doesn't spike at least 3 times per minute at over 100ms.

There seems to be nothing I can do about it except for change isp.

So that's what I'm doing.

 

ModBox doesn't seem to suffer as badly (from watching his vids), he can correct me if I'm wrong, but some people don't - some are lucky with their Virgin connection. I'm not though.

 

I setup like this...

hub modem mode > netduma (wifi off) > asus dark knight 5ghz+2ghz network

I get full speeds through the 5ghz wifi. I have nothing connected to the hub except the Duma and everything connecting to the Duma or Asus to take full advantage of the connection control.

 

My point is that between us we will almost definitely be able to help you get your max speed, if you post your setup and let us help, but your game experience might not improve unless you switch isp - that depends if your setup is causing the problems or if you have my virgin connection rather than ModBox's connection.

 

If you do what Zennon said and plot some graphs and record some data then you may be able to break your contract because of the problems.

 

*on a separate note, you mentioned your 'in xbox ping' as being over 150ms - everyone is the UK will see this, it pings Microsoft in Seattle.

**mine also showed 'exceptional' across the board before I 'upgraded' but as I said it was anything but exceptional for me.

[Zennon]

Thanks guys for adding your experiences.

 

https://www.pingplotter.com/download.html

 

Type 8.8.8.8 or bbc.co.uk into the target and press go do this at about 830 onwards you can leave it for as long as you want.

 

Press file , save image to screen cap

[AnonymousBleach]

Looking at selling the R1 on now as i just cannot get on with it.

 

It's host filtering works fine, but i am unable lately i am still experiencing lag spikes/latency problems while playing Black Ops 3 (xbox).

 

I started a thread a while ago about trying to cascade the router with the Superhub, as i get 200 down, 20 up from that, whereas i have never gotten above 50 down 14 up through the R1. Coupled with the 2G wifi which although worked, i was having regular lag spikes while streaming to my laptop.

 

I understand that my setup is probably unique to me, i also understand that streaming from the xbox app on my laptop also kind of undermines the point of using the R1 due to introducing more latency/lag. However, i can do this perfectly fine through the Virgin Superhub using it's 5Ghz wifi. It all points to the R1 having the problem. I get full speeds (+/- 10mbps) at all times of the day through wifi speed tests, whereas i only get 1/4 that from the R1. I have run though all the "fine tuning" guides and troubleshooting pages on the wiki numerous times, but nothing changes. Running the intergrated test mode shows everything as 'exceptional' yet i still find myself with a latency of over 150ms ping from the Xbox tests, and while playing the game, probably feels about right with people killing me through walls, or dying before i even see the enemy etc. Ping tests on the superhub show no packet loss and a 9ms ping.

 

Recently i bought a pair of powerlines, just to try them out with the R1, and i still get 'Network Quality' issues, although not quite as bad as the R1 wifi, still makes the game bearly playable.

 

In summary, i cannot recommend this to anyone who pays for high bandwidth internet, as the R1 just cannot run at these speeds. Even though i am connecting to local peers (0 ping assist, 700km radius) i still get lag spikes and a higher than average latency. Meaning that instead of 'Dominating', i might get 1 decent game out of 7 or 8. For the money i paid i may as well just use the superhub directly.

 

This is only my experience. If you find yours runs fine, well good on you, then i must be in the minority.

 

 

I have 180/10 internet and if you set it up right you'll get those speeds because I do.

Sorry to hear all your troubles man.. I went through the same issue with my old ISP.. (At&t) and it was hell to get set up correctly. In my opinion its something on their side tho, I'm not the most tech savvy either, but I learned. Just keep plugging and don't give up. 

[slashformayor]

Right, so i've just got around to doing a test with PingPlotter. Only have one computer running Windows 7 onwards, so was a bit of a faff, but i tested with the computer plugged directly into the Superhub, the R1 was completely removed for testing purposes as i want to make sure the bottleneck is not from Virgin's side.

 

 

This was taken from about 8pm for 2 and a half hours. I'm not sure on the red bar, as i minimised the program for roughly the time that of that red bar, and it was there when i maximised it again, it then carried on as normal after that.

 

I'm not sure what i'm looking at but any comments are welcome.

[Dillinger]

Right, so i've just got around to doing a test with PingPlotter. Only have one computer running Windows 7 onwards, so was a bit of a faff, but i tested with the computer plugged directly into the Superhub, the R1 was completely removed for testing purposes as i want to make sure the bottleneck is not from Virgin's side.

 

 

This was taken from about 8pm for 2 and a half hours. I'm not sure on the red bar, as i minimised the program for roughly the time that of that red bar, and it was there when i maximised it again, it then carried on as normal after that.

 

I'm not sure what i'm looking at but any comments are welcome.

 

Mother of God.  You may want to check this again, because if that is your NORMAL 8:00PM run, you have some tragic shit going on.  

 

You are showing 100% packet loss on hops 4 and 5, 24(%) on Hop 6 and you have Jitter ALL over your line.  

 

Wait for Zennon, as he knows about 1,000% more on this issue than I do, but from where I am sitting that looks like a disaster brother.

[major masingil]

Slash,

 

I know a lot have been trying to help, but reading through your posts it's apparent your set up is maximally flawed.  The only thing you have on your R1 is your XB.  Everything else is upstream on the superhub.  I know you did this because you wanted your full speeds, but it's the ghetto way of setting things up.  By nature you're going to have issues.  Hyper trafffic won't do anything because you only have one thing, the XB, hooked up to the R1. Congestion Control won't do anything either because the XB is the only one at the R1's trough,  Basically the only thing the R1 will do for you in this set up is Geofilter.  

 

I'm not trying to be a dink.  Just maybe pointing out something you're not thinking about.  Please give me a slap if my reading comprehension is way off, but I know I read, "So i have since simplyfied it to have the xbox running through the R1 then onto the hub, everything else connects directly to the hub, so only my laptop (when streaming) and the xbox are running through the R1".

[slashformayor]

Mother of God.  You may want to check this again, because if that is your NORMAL 8:00PM run, you have some tragic shit going on.  

 

You are showing 100% packet loss on hops 4 and 5, 24(%) on Hop 6 and you have Jitter ALL over your line.  

 

Wait for Zennon, as he knows about 1,000% more on this issue than I do, but from where I am sitting that looks like a disaster brother.

Sweet. I mean, at least it's not the R1 at first glance then, and i've been frustrated over something beyond my control.

[slashformayor]

Slash,

 

I know a lot have been trying to help, but reading through your posts it's apparent your set up is maximally flawed.  The only thing you have on your R1 is your XB.  Everything else is upstream on the superhub.  I know you did this because you wanted your full speeds, but it's the ghetto way of setting things up.  By nature you're going to have issues.  Hyper trafffic won't do anything because you only have one thing, the XB, hooked up to the R1. Congestion Control won't do anything either because the XB is the only one at the R1's trough,  Basically the only thing the R1 will do for you in this set up is Geofilter.  

 

I'm not trying to be a dink.  Just maybe pointing out something you're not thinking about.  Please give me a slap if my reading comprehension is way off, but I know I read, "So i have since simplyfied it to have the xbox running through the R1 then onto the hub, everything else connects directly to the hub, so only my laptop (when streaming) and the xbox are running through the R1".

That's as simple as it gets though isn't it, short of putting the hub in modem only mode. If the R1 had 5Ghz wifi i would not have a problem. However, the above test is even simpler, it's a laptop (MSI Dominator Pro GT72 2QE) wired directly to the superhub.

 

Funny thing is a did 3 speedtests on the laptop before the plotter and i was only getting 90-95mbs wired. I have come upstairs and using the 5ghz wifii i am now getting 130+ !!

[antithesis]

You're getting packet loss from the PC to the router, so that's your first problem. Check that your ethernet cable is seated correctly. 

 

Virgin's dropping packets at #4, that much is obvious.

 

Jitter isn't wonderful. The R1 can't help you there, that's Virgin's network. There was talk about a Netduma firmware update to manage jitter, but that's yet to materialise. Anyone have an update on that?

 

As for max speeds, it's all about the R1's settings. Get it right and you'll experience your full bandwidth.

 

Setting Congestion Control to 100% is a bad idea for gaming. Dial it down to 70/70 as a starting point and use www.dslreports.com/speedtest to check your Bufferbloat and Line Quality. Forget Speed, that's irrelevant for gaming, unless you're on dial-up or a very poor DSL connection. Bump Download and Upload both up and down in increments of 5 until you hit at A+ rating for BB and hopefully, Quality. Use that for your gaming profile - it's the cleanest connection you're going to get with your current ISP.

 

As Major said, your network config is not taking advantage of the R1 at all. You're losing all QoS control that you should have over wired and wireless devices and both Congestion Control and Hyperlane are doing nothing for you. Bridge your modem (assuming it has a router on-board) or bang the R1 into the DMZ, plug the R1 as the only device into it, then every other network device and / or ethernet switch / router (bridged mode) into that.

 

Avoid wireless for gaming, ethernet's the only way to go. If you can't access ethernet where your console is located, consider using ethernet over power adapters. For other wireless devices and hubs, setup a roaming network for the best coverage and throughput. Setup the SSID etc on the R1, then mirror those settings to your other wireless hubs. The R1 is the only pathway to the internet, so all wireless devices will fall under its Congestion Control for internet activity.

 

Intranet activity, like streaming media locally from Plex to Chromecast / Apple TV / PC / tablet / smartphone should bypass the R1 on a roaming network. Just keep in mind the max throughput of your wi-fi network may negatively impact your wireless internet activity. That shouldn't really be a problem unless your shoving multiple media streams or file transfers over wireless while gaming wirelessly, which is the least optimal way to game.

 

Finally, it's well known that BO3's netcode is complete shite. You can only control what's happening with your own connection and can't accommodate for lag compensation on the game server, nor peer pings. All you can do is suck it up and optimise your own settings as much as possible.

[Zennon]

The suggestions to run all through the Netduma are spot on, Try a new Ethernet cable from the hub to the duma and re test once all are through the duma using a 70% congestion control with your bandwidth inputted.

 

Apart from that you are using Virgin cable so that jitter you see is their network, as other will attest to, no good for gaming.

[slashformayor]

You're getting packet loss from the PC to the router, so that's your first problem. Check that your ethernet cable is seated correctly. 

 

Virgin's dropping packets at #4, that much is obvious.

 

Jitter isn't wonderful. The R1 can't help you there, that's Virgin's network. There was talk about a Netduma firmware update to manage jitter, but that's yet to materialise. Anyone have an update on that?

 

As for max speeds, it's all about the R1's settings. Get it right and you'll experience your full bandwidth.

 

Setting Congestion Control to 100% is a bad idea for gaming. Dial it down to 70/70 as a starting point and use www.dslreports.com/speedtest to check your Bufferbloat and Line Quality. Forget Speed, that's irrelevant for gaming, unless you're on dial-up or a very poor DSL connection. Bump Download and Upload both up and down in increments of 5 until you hit at A+ rating for BB and hopefully, Quality. Use that for your gaming profile - it's the cleanest connection you're going to get with your current ISP.

 

As Major said, your network config is not taking advantage of the R1 at all. You're losing all QoS control that you should have over wired and wireless devices and both Congestion Control and Hyperlane are doing nothing for you. Bridge your modem (assuming it has a router on-board) or bang the R1 into the DMZ, plug the R1 as the only device into it, then every other network device and / or ethernet switch / router (bridged mode) into that.

 

Avoid wireless for gaming, ethernet's the only way to go. If you can't access ethernet where your console is located, consider using ethernet over power adapters. For other wireless devices and hubs, setup a roaming network for the best coverage and throughput. Setup the SSID etc on the R1, then mirror those settings to your other wireless hubs. The R1 is the only pathway to the internet, so all wireless devices will fall under its Congestion Control for internet activity.

 

Intranet activity, like streaming media locally from Plex to Chromecast / Apple TV / PC / tablet / smartphone should bypass the R1 on a roaming network. Just keep in mind the max throughput of your wi-fi network may negatively impact your wireless internet activity. That shouldn't really be a problem unless your shoving multiple media streams or file transfers over wireless while gaming wirelessly, which is the least optimal way to game.

 

Finally, it's well known that BO3's netcode is complete shite. You can only control what's happening with your own connection and can't accommodate for lag compensation on the game server, nor peer pings. All you can do is suck it up and optimise your own settings as much as possible.

 

The Laptop in question was connected directly to the Superhub for the previous test last night, via a brand new Cat5e cable, which i had to open the packaging for. The connection to both the Laptop and hub was fine, clicked in both instances. So why would i be losing packets here? That is pretty worrying to me.

 

I appreciate your help and i know not everyone knows the whole back story to this, but i game wired from my console, the only reason i mention wifi is to stream from the xbox to my laptop upstairs using the xbox app in Windows 10. The trouble is i am having the same problems playing downstairs (wired console direct to tv) as i am streaming upstairs, albeit when i'm streaming obviously there is extra latency to factor which i am prepared for.

 

The reason i set up the R1 the way i did was because i was not really interested in congestion control. I only have 2 phones, this laptop, my TV and my console connected, and on a 200mbps line i figured the chance of those devices using enough bandwidth to affect my game playing was slim, especially as my laptop is not on while i'm gaming, as well as my TV as that connection is mainly for Netflix, so that only leaves 2 phones which are on the 5Ghz wifi while i'm gaming, and the one of them is mine, which i'm not going to be using heavily. So really, while my wife is facebooking and i'm on the console, i would say 200mbps was overkill. That is the reason i saw no benefit to using congestion control and why i only really used the R1 for host filtering.

 

However, my problem is really the fact that i paid all that money for a router which basically i've now come to understand is not suitable for my ISP? Not only that but the only real multiplayer game i play right now is BO3, which again sounds like it is unsuitable for my uses.

 

Out of interest what ISP is recommended for gaming then?

[Zennon]

After seeing many many cable plots it seems it has an inherent problem with jitter.

 

Fibre on the other hand does not if the area is uncongested.

[slashformayor]

The above was from last night over wifi from where i stream. Not really relevant i know but i left it running on accident.

 

Above was from the last hour, again wired direct to the superhub, no R1, new cable, connections checked ok, and i was pinging BBC in the UK rather than google US. Looks even worse tbh.