Terrible Bufferbloat, no matter what I try.. (XR450)

[RouterUser]

Hello all,

So, I've googled.. I've searched these forums.. I've tried about every single thing anyone has suggested.. I come across a few problems with anything I try.

First of all, I sit flush around these speeds, when I have DumaOS QoS set to my 'Xfinity' speeds from a speed test (900mbps/38mbps) and a 70/70 setting on the QoS sliders (see attached picture).

I messed with sliders like crazy, but no matter what I did with them, the only one that 'kind of' noticeably changed speed when I messed with it, was the upload one, and it never really came down in congestion latency (unless ipv6 was turned off, but that ruined the download speeds, as I'll explain momentarily). So, the sliders/QoS really didn't work much, for me..

So then I tried looking around on google and these forums.. Trying what people suggested..

I tried to turn OFF ipv6 in the router settings.. However, that made me get half the internet speed I was getting with it turned on (download). Upload stayed the same. However, even at half the download speeds on a speed test, the bufferbloat website kept either clocking me at 350mbps download, and giving +10 download latency, or clocking me at 160mbps download, and giving me +0 latency.. Although neither time I changed any sliders or speed information in DumaOS. So I'm unsure why it was so back and forth and inconsistent.. Upload with ipv6 turned off was getting roughly the same speeds, however clocking at 32mbps with a +10 latency.. So, I'm not sure what was going on. Sure, the rank changed to an A or B, but my download speeds also went down to either 320 or 160mbps.. when I pay for 'gig internet.' So I figure the loss wasn't worth it.

So, I turned ipv6 back on. I've tried just about everything I can think of, and, at this point, am very confused at what to do. 

Just FYI, when plugged into the PC straight, no router, I get about the same speeds and bufferbloat ratings. Not sure if that info helps or not. Also, on XR450 V2.3.2.134 firmware ('newest').

I'm unsure what to do or what to try, at this point. Any ideas would be great. Also, if I'm just held down by the router, I'm open to moving on/forward with a newer model or something.. But I swear, this one isn't that old, so.. I don't know.

Thank you,

RouterUser

EDIT: On a side note.. For the last 2-3 weeks, Comcast has been hitting me with some lag spikes.. They happen every 2-20 minutes, and last about 3-10 seconds, each time. Usually around 5 seconds. OBS Studio goes from green upload speed to red, usually. Sometimes even dropping to 0kbps upload, briefly.. Before going green again, seconds later. I've contacted Xfinity multiple times, each time with them saying things look great on their end.. One time them saying my modem was sending back 'errors'.. I replaced my modem with an older modem, same issue. I replaced my modem with a brand new modem, same issues.. I bypassed the router completely to just the modem.. Same issues.. They sent a tech out who checked my hard wires, replaced my Cat5 cable going between the router and modem, and did a speed test on everything while he was here with his little tablet thing, and he said everything seemed fine, and he was unsure where the issue lied. So, I'm stuck, still getting this new issue, and unsure how to fix it. Also, each and everytime I contact Xfinity, I either get a call or a text, telling me 'health diagnostics were ran, and they believe my issue has been fixed, and to try to replicate the issue.' And each time, nothing was changed as far as my issue goes. (4 times in a row they've done that, now.... Little sus.). So, any ideas on that front would be great, too. I'm paying for 1200mb speeds from them, and I get roughly 800-900, anyways.

Edited August 24, 2023 by RouterUser
Added additional info, then model information, then a whole 'edit' section.

[Netduma Fraser]

Hey, welcome to the forum!

If your base connection is having those spikes that frequently and consistently it's going to be hard to tell how much of your bufferbloat results are due to that and just settings. Also even if you get your bufferbloat down to the lowest point that spiking issue will still happen and that will be the main thing affecting you as bufferbloat only occurs when your connection is saturated i.e. all your bandwidth is being used, with QoS enabled and Congestion Control lowered that can't happen.

Follow the guide here: https://support.netduma.com/en/support/solutions/articles/16000074717-how-to-test-your-internet-ping while saturating your connection with downloads/streams etc. It's best to start with a high value for Congestion Control (set to Always), say 95% then do a test, decrease by 10%, test, decrease by 10% etc, until you get to a value that is pretty good and then try 5% either side of that value to see if it can be improved. It's important to note that Download & Upload on Congestion Control don't have to be the same value and that you may have a better experience with differing values.

[RouterUser]

3 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Hey, welcome to the forum!

If your base connection is having those spikes that frequently and consistently it's going to be hard to tell how much of your bufferbloat results are due to that and just settings. Also even if you get your bufferbloat down to the lowest point that spiking issue will still happen and that will be the main thing affecting you as bufferbloat only occurs when your connection is saturated i.e. all your bandwidth is being used, with QoS enabled and Congestion Control lowered that can't happen.

Follow the guide here: https://support.netduma.com/en/support/solutions/articles/16000074717-how-to-test-your-internet-ping while saturating your connection with downloads/streams etc. It's best to start with a high value for Congestion Control (set to Always), say 95% then do a test, decrease by 10%, test, decrease by 10% etc, until you get to a value that is pretty good and then try 5% either side of that value to see if it can be improved. It's important to note that Download & Upload on Congestion Control don't have to be the same value and that you may have a better experience with differing values.

Hello!

Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, I saw you post that link in many other posts, and did try it out. Not gonna lie, that program and how to work it confuses me. Haha. I'm slow 😅

But yeah. Working on the internet issues. Was hoping someone might have an idea on that, as well.. Since those just started out of the blue a few weeks back, and Comcast/Xfinity doesn't really want to accept responsibility. 

But once those are fixed, I do want to understand how to fix this bufferbloat I have.. As far as I know, even before these issues with my connection, I was garnering the same results.

[DARKNESS]

@RouterUserThat sounds like ISP line issues mate that something you'll have to take on with them and show legitimate proof you can do so by using software like ping plotter or similar kinds were it does a diagnostic of the packets and finds out if there's an issue on they're end or if it coming from your end depending on the hops. An if they refuse to fix your issue when you've proven your claims then you'll have to file an ffc report/case which is a lot of a fun 😂

[Netduma Fraser]

34 minutes ago, RouterUser said:

Hello!

Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, I saw you post that link in many other posts, and did try it out. Not gonna lie, that program and how to work it confuses me. Haha. I'm slow 😅

But yeah. Working on the internet issues. Was hoping someone might have an idea on that, as well.. Since those just started out of the blue a few weeks back, and Comcast/Xfinity doesn't really want to accept responsibility. 

But once those are fixed, I do want to understand how to fix this bufferbloat I have.. As far as I know, even before these issues with my connection, I was garnering the same results.

Basically enter a local site for the destination, then let it run, look at the bottom graph so you can see your ping over time. Start some downloads, you should see the ping rises, experiment with Congestion Control as above and you should see the ping go lower again. The idea is to get it as close to the ping you were seeing prior to the downloads.

[RouterUser]

Thanks for the replies.

Well, it seems Comcast nailed down my issue, at least for today.. I talked with a rep on messaging for hours, this morning, and then I've done a 5 hour test stream since then, and had 0 dropped frames. So.. Here's to hoping that's fixed. .....at least it has been, for today, haha. Althoughhhhh.. I played a game of Valorant, just now, and it popped up with a couple 'network issue' icons, here and there.. which is what it was doing before, when I was getting lag spikes/going red latency on OBS during streams. So.. That also leads me to maybe think it's NOT fixed...... However, OBS did not go red this time, during said lag spike.. So. I don't know.. Your guess is as good as mine...

Now, as far as bufferbloat goes.. Just took a test while doing the test stream. Goes without saying, apparently it didn't like to test while I was doing the test stream.. But let's be honest.. 99% of the time if I'm playing games, I'm going to be streaming.. Being a streamer, it goes without saying.. So, my question is now.. Where should I start? 

Anyone have any info for me as to why my connection download cuts in half when I take off ipv6 in router settings to disabled? But upload stays the same? That seemed to be the only way I achieved A ratings on the bufferbloat website.. But only because I had a miniscule 150mb download speed..

Any other things I should try?

Thank you,

RouterUser

[Ameryjr]

i have xfinity too, stable ping etc. i have noticed this exact thing as well. this comes down to our copper line connection. our download & upload ping will always suffer regardless of our settings. just try to get a stable ping as @Netduma Fraser mentioned above and that will do.  the copper coaxial line was not meant to handle modern speeds and performance. xfinity is so bad with relaying their connection as well. you will be able to see it on your ping plotter! my recommendation is to try to get on fiber! 

[Fuzy]

This is the problem with HFC connections, ISPs have succeeded in increasing speeds to the detriment of line stability!

[Netduma Fraser]

13 hours ago, RouterUser said:

Now, as far as bufferbloat goes.. Just took a test while doing the test stream. Goes without saying, apparently it didn't like to test while I was doing the test stream.. But let's be honest.. 99% of the time if I'm playing games, I'm going to be streaming.. Being a streamer, it goes without saying.. So, my question is now.. Where should I start? 

This is why you should use the guide I mentioned instead as that will actually more closely simulate what your normal connection will be like rather than a 3rd party test that doesn't saturate your connection

[RouterUser]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:00 AM, Fuzy said:

This is the problem with HFC connections, ISPs have succeeded in increasing speeds to the detriment of line stability!

So, are you guys saying it's pretty impossible for me with my connection to be able to better my bufferbloat, then? Because I'm held down by the old copper wires of cable?

[RouterUser]

On 8/25/2023 at 12:29 AM, Ameryjr said:

i have xfinity too, stable ping etc. i have noticed this exact thing as well. this comes down to our copper line connection. our download & upload ping will always suffer regardless of our settings. just try to get a stable ping as @Netduma Fraser mentioned above and that will do.  the copper coaxial line was not meant to handle modern speeds and performance. xfinity is so bad with relaying their connection as well. you will be able to see it on your ping plotter! my recommendation is to try to get on fiber! 

Fiber isn't available to me, unfortunately. I tried looking

[RouterUser]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:04 AM, Netduma Fraser said:

This is why you should use the guide I mentioned instead as that will actually more closely simulate what your normal connection will be like rather than a 3rd party test that doesn't saturate your connection

One day I can sit down and really try and understand what that guide is saying to do.. I may just not be technical enough, though, haha. Thanks for replying!

[Netduma Fraser]

34 minutes ago, RouterUser said:

One day I can sit down and really try and understand what that guide is saying to do.. I may just not be technical enough, though, haha. Thanks for replying!

Basically, ping a local website, do the downloads, look at the ping graph underneath, when the ping goes up apply Congestion Control, keep reducing the percentages until you get to the ping you started with without the downloads

[Proud R3 Owner]

4 hours ago, RouterUser said:

So, are you guys saying it's pretty impossible for me with my connection to be able to better my bufferbloat, then? Because I'm held down by the old copper wires of cable?

I have copper cable with Cox on their gigablast package (1Gb down 35Mb up). To get a good bufferbloat score I have my sliders set to 50% download and 35% upload. Other settings include priority set to gaming at 25, media and uncategorized set to 20, everything else is where it ends up. I also don't use geofilter but rather ping assist (tiny circle set in the middle of the ocean) with assist set to 40ms. I seem to get good results with where I'm at.

[TrayDay]

As many has pointed out. When it comes to Copper Cable, you're going to have variable latency. You can get it to manageable ping with QOS and setting the sliders accordingly. I have SPECTRUM, which was originally Comcast here. So my ISP is practically similar to yours, and I'm able to get it down pretty good. Waveform is a pretty decent website to use, but if you REALLY want to actually minimize any lag or bufferbloat, download pingplotter for free. Open Pingplotter and enter google.com and look at the graph below and begin to download something, and you should see the ping rise. That's when you start lowering the sliders according to where you find it doesn't spike as high.

https://www.pingplotter.com/download/windows/

[RouterUser]

5 hours ago, TrayDay said:

As many has pointed out. When it comes to Copper Cable, you're going to have variable latency. You can get it to manageable ping with QOS and setting the sliders accordingly. I have SPECTRUM, which was originally Comcast here. So my ISP is practically similar to yours, and I'm able to get it down pretty good. Waveform is a pretty decent website to use, but if you REALLY want to actually minimize any lag or bufferbloat, download pingplotter for free. Open Pingplotter and enter google.com and look at the graph below and begin to download something, and you should see the ping rise. That's when you start lowering the sliders according to where you find it doesn't spike as high.

https://www.pingplotter.com/download/windows/

This is why I don't know that I'm doing it right.. I tried to follow direction. However, when I move the sliders - I assume you guys mean the sliders in the QoS for download/upload? They're really not doing anything to my connection. Even with router restarts in between. Picture proofs attached. The 58ms/46ms pic is with sliders at 85-85. The 50ms/53ms pic is with sliders at 50-35. The 52ms/46ms pic is with sliders at 35-20.

I assume I'm doing something wrong?

And yes, I tried ping plotter. ignore the giant jumps, as they were from when I did the bufferbloat website tests to test the sliders. 

[Netduma Fraser]

6 minutes ago, RouterUser said:

This is why I don't know that I'm doing it right.. I tried to follow direction. However, when I move the sliders - I assume you guys mean the sliders in the QoS for download/upload? They're really not doing anything to my connection. Even with router restarts in between. Picture proofs attached. The 58ms/46ms pic is with sliders at 85-85. The 50ms/53ms pic is with sliders at 50-35. The 52ms/46ms pic is with sliders at 35-20.

I assume I'm doing something wrong?

And yes, I tried ping plotter. ignore the giant jumps, as they were from when I did the bufferbloat website tests to test the sliders. 

Have you set Congestion Control to Always as it doesn't appear to be throttling the speed at all.

[RouterUser]

2 minutes ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Have you set Congestion Control to Always as it doesn't appear to be throttling the speed at all.

Yes, I have. My thoughts exactly. That’s why I hard reset the router between one of those, too. I was like.. this doesn’t seem to be changing the speeds or outcomes. 

[Fuzy]

Hi,

Take the test by disabling ipv6 !

[RouterUser]

Just now, Fuzy said:

Hi,

Take the test by disabling ipv6 !

I tried that. Mentioned what happens in my intro message, up above. It’s really weird.

[Fuzy]

In this case it is normal to have lower speeds in ipv4, because the ABB was set... (cursors on always)

It's just that ipv6 is not taken into account because it is passtrought (on the WAN) and bypasses the QOS etc functionality that is on the LAN!

[RouterUser]

Oh?? Hmm. Good to know.. it has automatic bypass on the QoS… interesting. Well, when I disable ipv6, I get half the download speed even at 100% download slider. That’s what ruins it, for me? 

[Fuzy]

Take the test on the ookla W10/11 app in ipv4

By selecting an optimized server, you will get your maximum speed!

[RouterUser]

30 minutes ago, Fuzy said:

Take the test on the ookla W10/11 app in ipv4

By selecting an optimized server, you will get your maximum speed!

I’ll try to find out what you mean here, tomorrow! Working now. Thank you! Will report back tomorrow. 

[Fuzy]

just in case, if you have a realtek ethernet card integrated into your CM, changing the drivers may help!