Harley Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Is there a difference in the DumaOS in the two? The reason I as is that I have an XR1000 but I have been looking for an emergency backup router for a while. I tried my ISP's Frtizbox but unfortunately that didn't have the features that are essential for my home network. Then I was really lucky to pick up a XR700 for next to nothing, which is on the way here now. So before it got here I thought I would ask the question as to whether it has the same features? It may turn out that it would be better to use the XR700 as my main and the XR1000 as a backup, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netduma Liam Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 The XR700 is currently a little behind the XR1000, but it will still have the majority of the home network features you need from the XR1000. We're also working on the latest XR700 firmware right now, so it should be brought up to speed pretty soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 19, 2022 Author Share Posted May 19, 2022 Good to know. I guess the nice part is I will be able to run two different versions on two different routers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunkjuice1 Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 I was thinking about getting a “backup” DumaOS router myself. The OS is the same but all the models with DumaOS software have similar and separate issues and that’s understandable. Hardware wise in specs is what may set each one apart. For me I was honestly thinking of getting an R2 as it’s Netduma’s more so than netgear’s build hardware side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 19, 2022 Author Share Posted May 19, 2022 3 hours ago, crunkjuice1 said: For me I was honestly thinking of getting an R2 as it’s Netduma’s more so than netgear’s build hardware side. Same here. I think the R2 is really good value at the moment. Other routers seem to have shot up in price. But while I was looking and pondering I just so happened to pick up a new xr700 for peanuts so couldn't really refuse. It will be interesting too. crunkjuice1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagsta69 Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 I have had the XR700 pretty much since release, it is a little behind on features than some of the other releases but it works for me. I was very pleased that when I switched from fttc to fttp I could just plug it straight in and everything just worked straight away. If the team needs anybody for any testing on the XR700 give me a shout. Its been a while since I got the original R1 as an early adopter. lol. Netduma Fraser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 On 5/19/2022 at 11:27 AM, Netduma Liam said: The XR700 is currently a little behind the XR1000, but it will still have the majority of the home network features you need from the XR1000. We're also working on the latest XR700 firmware right now, so it should be brought up to speed pretty soon. That's an understatement! The XR700 arrived today and is now running as we speak. I am surprised actually at how far behind the XR700 is compared to the XR1000, considering the XR700 is a "premium product". Interestingly the XR700 has exactly the same issue as the XR1000 when it comes to setup. It doesn't take account of the fact that the user might require a username and password to log in to their internet service. It does, however, keep running whereas the XR1000 can crash. The one thing I did notice between the two is that the interface is a little snappier for the XR700, but also it uses a lot more power. Even with the WiFi off, the XR700 uses four to five times the power that the XR1000 uses. The values are not particularly concerning but given there are less features on the XR700 then it seems the logical choice is to keep on using the XR1000 as my main router and the XR700 as a backup ( which is actually why I bought it in the first place!! ). Netduma Fraser and Netduma Liam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobel Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 @HarleyWhich features are lacking compared to the XR1000 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Mobel said: @HarleyWhich features are lacking compared to the XR1000 ? The biggest thing for me was the Connection Benchmark which I found invaluable for analysing the broadband connection and correctly setting the limits for QOS to reduce latency. This is a really informative feature. The other big one was the missing Adblock but of course the XR700 has Hybrid VPN which the 1000 does not. I was actually hoping to sort out whether Congestion Control ( called Buffer Bloat in the XR700 ) was working better for Uploads in the XR700 but couldn't tell because the XR700 doesn't have the tools to analyze the upload. There are also smaller changes like the way the XR1000 has two categories of apps for QOS. In the XR700 it is just called "high priority traffic" without saying what it is. In the XR1000 it splits that in to two and had "Gaming" and "Business". I really like that because you can actually turn Business off as high priority and just have Gaming. Also there is a neat little indicator that shows you when you are gaming. So there are small tweaks and a few big missing features. There is probably more but I haven't spent more than an hour playing with it so far. I really like the 700. It's what a good router should be! But it does need that update that's in the pipeline. Particularly Connection Benchmark. bagsta69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobel Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Hi @Harley I have Congestion Control and Connection Benchmark on my XR700 since somewhere the end of 2020, look the picture and i put firmware as well for u here it is working good and also noticed i have always around 2-4ms lower ping on mine XR700 compared to when i plug my R2 in. Really waiting for the DumaOs 3.2 update for the XR700, I never had a issue with this router it is performing really good for me. Oh dont forgot to do a factory reset after u upgraded to the firmware and clear your cookies and cache of your internet browser as well after u have pressed on factory reset from the gui, give the router also a 5-10 minutes rest after it has booted up after the factory reset. XR700-V1.0.1.34_Dumaos3.0_6-1.img Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 On 5/19/2022 at 11:27 AM, Netduma Liam said: The XR700 is currently a little behind the XR1000, but it will still have the majority of the home network features you need from the XR1000. We're also working on the latest XR700 firmware right now, so it should be brought up to speed pretty soon. 1 hour ago, Mobel said: Hi @Harley I have Congestion Control and Connection Benchmark on my XR700 since somewhere the end of 2020, look the picture and i put firmware as well for u here it is working good and also noticed i have always around 2-4ms lower ping on mine XR700 compared to when i plug my R2 in. Really waiting for the DumaOs 3.2 update for the XR700, I never had a issue with this router it is performing really good for me. Oh dont forgot to do a factory reset after u upgraded to the firmware and clear your cookies and cache of your internet browser as well after u have pressed on factory reset from the gui, give the router also a 5-10 minutes rest after it has booted up after the factory reset. XR700-V1.0.1.34_Dumaos3.0_6-1.img 41.63 MB · 1 download OK Now I am completely baffled. For some reason I am missing three apps. How can this be? Where did that firmware come from? Why is it better than the firmware netgear are pushing on their site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 In passing, one issue I found with the XR700 firmware that is fixed for the XR1000, is that the Connection Benchmark ignores the Congestion Control setting, so it is impossible to determine what setting reduces the load ping to acceptable limits. As I said, this has been fixed for the XR1000. Oh, wait, no, that's not the problem.... *more investigation* Congestion Control doesn't seem to work at all. I was having difficulty getting it to even recognise any of the games I play as a game, but no matter what I seem to do Congestion Control doesn't limit the bandwidth. Even if I switch it on "all the time". I am going to flash it to the latest version now and see what happens!! It's completely ****** the router, that's what happens. I am now just getting error messages and it even refuses to perform a hardware reset. It has utterly destroyed my router. I can't get past error messages now and it completely refuses to perform a hardware reset. Ah, I got there in the end. After about the sixth hardware reset it actually reset. I have actually seen another post about this error message I got someplace else. Anyway the answer is to keep on hardware resetting until it ACTUALLY resets. And I can now confirm that Congestion Control in XR700-V1.0.1.34_Dumaos3.0_6-1 doesn't work at all. I configured it in the latest version as downloaded from Netgear and it works just fine. OK so for the moment I will stay on the old firmware. By that I mean the Netgear firmware that has the older DumaOS on it. I look forward to the a new version coming out!!! Any idea when that will be?? HA! I can also confirm that Congestion Control is broken in the XR1000. I have it working just fine in the XR700 but in the XR1000 the Upload Congestion Control does nothing. It's broken. The Download is just fine, I might add, it's just the upload that's broken. Ah, another issue. Lol. The XR700 is not picking up the games I play. I guess that's just the games "list" in the XR1000 is better. Is there a list of ports and stuff for games that we can manually add to the XR700?? For some reason I can't seem to get anything to register as High Priority Traffic for the XR700. 😕 Forgive me but right now I am getting weary of trying. I mean all I am doing is QOS here and I am having so much trouble. Either Congestion Control doesn't work or I am having difficulty with Prioritization. I have two different products here and they are all broken in some way or other. This is kinda just too much. The XR1000 seems to be less broken but the Congestion Control for uploads is not working. It is all working on the XR700 but prioritization is not - or at least I can't seem to add a game - nothing I have will register as a high priority message so the fact that Congestion Control works is irrelevant cus I can't Auto Detect. Well, for the moment I have given up with the XR700. With the latest software that seems to be based on an older version of DumaOS there are just too many problems. The XR1000 is better even though it has this issue with the Congestion Control not working on Upload. I await the XR700 update with interest!! The XR700 is a lovely router but until the software is updated, well, I will keep it as a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netduma Liam Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Harley said: In passing, one issue I found with the XR700 firmware that is fixed for the XR1000, is that the Connection Benchmark ignores the Congestion Control setting, so it is impossible to determine what setting reduces the load ping to acceptable limits. As I said, this has been fixed for the XR1000. Oh, wait, no, that's not the problem.... *more investigation* Congestion Control doesn't seem to work at all. I was having difficulty getting it to even recognise any of the games I play as a game, but no matter what I seem to do Congestion Control doesn't limit the bandwidth. Even if I switch it on "all the time". I am going to flash it to the latest version now and see what happens!! It's completely ****** the router, that's what happens. I am now just getting error messages and it even refuses to perform a hardware reset. It has utterly destroyed my router. I can't get past error messages now and it completely refuses to perform a hardware reset. Ah, I got there in the end. After about the sixth hardware reset it actually reset. I have actually seen another post about this error message I got someplace else. Anyway the answer is to keep on hardware resetting until it ACTUALLY resets. And I can now confirm that Congestion Control in XR700-V1.0.1.34_Dumaos3.0_6-1 doesn't work at all. I configured it in the latest version as downloaded from Netgear and it works just fine. OK so for the moment I will stay on the old firmware. By that I mean the Netgear firmware that has the older DumaOS on it. I look forward to the a new version coming out!!! Any idea when that will be?? HA! I can also confirm that Congestion Control is broken in the XR1000. I have it working just fine in the XR700 but in the XR1000 the Upload Congestion Control does nothing. It's broken. The Download is just fine, I might add, it's just the upload that's broken. Ah, another issue. Lol. The XR700 is not picking up the games I play. I guess that's just the games "list" in the XR1000 is better. Is there a list of ports and stuff for games that we can manually add to the XR700?? For some reason I can't seem to get anything to register as High Priority Traffic for the XR700. 😕 Forgive me but right now I am getting weary of trying. I mean all I am doing is QOS here and I am having so much trouble. Either Congestion Control doesn't work or I am having difficulty with Prioritization. I have two different products here and they are all broken in some way or other. This is kinda just too much. The XR1000 seems to be less broken but the Congestion Control for uploads is not working. It is all working on the XR700 but prioritization is not - or at least I can't seem to add a game - nothing I have will register as a high priority message so the fact that Congestion Control works is irrelevant cus I can't Auto Detect. Well, for the moment I have given up with the XR700. With the latest software that seems to be based on an older version of DumaOS there are just too many problems. The XR1000 is better even though it has this issue with the Congestion Control not working on Upload. I await the XR700 update with interest!! The XR700 is a lovely router but until the software is updated, well, I will keep it as a backup. Can you send us a full screenshot of how you currently have QoS configured as well as Traffic Prioritisation? It's quite hard to follow exactly what problems you're having so it's easiest if we can take a look at your config and point out any areas that might be causing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 51 minutes ago, Netduma Liam said: Can you send us a full screenshot of how you currently have QoS configured as well as Traffic Prioritisation? It's quite hard to follow exactly what problems you're having so it's easiest if we can take a look at your config and point out any areas that might be causing issues. Sorry I was kinda writing the post as I experimented. Problems in the XR1000. Congestion Control does not work with uploads. I set "all the time" in the Congestion Control and ran an independent speed check. It works fine for downloads, limiting it to the percentage selected on the slider. But it doesn't work at all for uploads. No matter what you set the slider to, it always runs at 100%. I confirmed this by repeating the experiment with the XR700 and that works just as I expected - both upload and download are correctly limited to the % setting on the slider. Problems with the XR700. Latest Netgear provided firmware. Congestion Control works as it should when the option is set to "always". However, when it is set to "auto" then it never triggers at all and this is because Prioritisation is not detecting any high priority traffic. This may just be down to me not configuring the game correctly. Unfortunately the XR700 doesn't recognise many games so I am a bit stuck on that one. I used this data - Destiny 2 - Steam TCP: 27015-27030, 27036-27037 UDP: 3074, 3097, 4380, 27000-27031, 27036 I checked the same game with the XR1000 and it does correctly recognise it as a game and so high priority. Problems with the XR700. Firmware XR700-V1.0.1.34_Dumaos3.0_6-1 Congestion Control seems totally broken in that if you set it to "all the time" it just doesn't work. If you need any more information about any of that, other experiments, pics, please ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netduma Liam Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Harley said: Sorry I was kinda writing the post as I experimented. Problems in the XR1000. Congestion Control does not work with uploads. I set "all the time" in the Congestion Control and ran an independent speed check. It works fine for downloads, limiting it to the percentage selected on the slider. But it doesn't work at all for uploads. No matter what you set the slider to, it always runs at 100%. I confirmed this by repeating the experiment with the XR700 and that works just as I expected - both upload and download are correctly limited to the % setting on the slider. Problems with the XR700. Latest Netgear provided firmware. Congestion Control works as it should when the option is set to "always". However, when it is set to "auto" then it never triggers at all and this is because Prioritisation is not detecting any high priority traffic. This may just be down to me not configuring the game correctly. Unfortunately the XR700 doesn't recognise many games so I am a bit stuck on that one. I used this data - Destiny 2 - Steam TCP: 27015-27030, 27036-27037 UDP: 3074, 3097, 4380, 27000-27031, 27036 I checked the same game with the XR1000 and it does correctly recognise it as a game and so high priority. Problems with the XR700. Firmware XR700-V1.0.1.34_Dumaos3.0_6-1 Congestion Control seems totally broken in that if you set it to "all the time" it just doesn't work. If you need any more information about any of that, other experiments, pics, please ask. Do you require PPPoE, VLAN or DHCP identifiers in order to connect to the internet? What's the make and model of your modem? If you could send over a screenshot of your QoS settings that'd be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Netduma Liam said: Do you require PPPoE, VLAN or DHCP identifiers in order to connect to the internet? What's the make and model of your modem? If you could send over a screenshot of your QoS settings that'd be helpful. Yes. It uses PPPoE. The modem ( if you can call it that ) is a standard Openreach ONT ( Nokia apparently ). As for the XR700, I don't have that connected at the moment but I will get a pic of the settings soon as..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobel Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Congestion Control, QoS, Traffic Priorization are all working fine for me on .34 DumaOs 3.0 fw for XR700 Only issue I still have is that the Upload ping goes all the way up till 600ms on Connection Benchmark but the team is aware of this issue (also happens on my R2) Congestion Control does limit the bandwidth definitely (try turning off share excess bandwidth download/upload) But I think this router really needs a update to the new firmware cant wait to test it 3.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 50 minutes ago, Mobel said: Congestion Control, QoS, Traffic Priorization are all working fine for me on .34 DumaOs 3.0 fw for XR700 Only issue I still have is that the Upload ping goes all the way up till 600ms on Connection Benchmark but the team is aware of this issue (also happens on my R2) Congestion Control does limit the bandwidth definitely (try turning off share excess bandwidth download/upload) But I think this router really needs a update to the new firmware cant wait to test it 3.2 For the XR700 with the 3.0, if you very simply set Buffer Bloat/Congestion Control to Always and run a broadband speed test it pays no attention to the slider settings. This is a completely different result to the XR1000 and indeed the standard XR700 with Netgear Software. You don't have to use an independent speed test, you can use the built in Connection Benchmark if the firmware happens to have it - same result. I mean the Congestion Control is one of the features I really need since I have some issues with Upload. Of course this happens to be the one thing in the router I am having real trouble with and inconsistent results between devices. I get the upload issues too ( ping goes very high ) with the XR1000 but apparently that is due to the Congestion Control Upload not working because my provider uses pppoe and that will be fixed soon. Weirdly the XR700 with Netgear software does not have that issue at all. The upload works with the Congestion Control and the ping remains low. As I said, with that my only problem is configuring the Traffic Priorization - it's not recognizing high priority messages. That's probably me doing it wrong though. I will probably try that again tomorrow and post how I configured it. It is a bit of a pain having to factory reset the router every time I do this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobel Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 @Harley Lower your CC sliders both to 50% and run a few speedtests on Fast.com, Cloudflare speedtest and M-Lab speedtest and check if they are limiting your Bandwidth by 50%. Uncheck download/upload share excess or divide it by the devices u have and it should limit your bandwidth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, Mobel said: @Harley Lower your CC sliders both to 50% and run a few speedtests on Fast.com, Cloudflare speedtest and M-Lab speedtest and check if they are limiting your Bandwidth by 50%. Uncheck download/upload share excess or divide it by the devices u have and it should limit your bandwidth. I will try that tomorrow, since I have to flash the software back in to the XR700 again. For my experiments I did lower them to 50% by the way. Although if it does work I don't see why. Surely that is not what Bandwidth Allocation is? Or at least, that's not how it works on the Netgear Firmware XR700 or the XR1000. All I have to do on those is just set Congestion Control to Always and it limits the bandwidth even with Allocation set to on. I have uploaded the results for the XR1000 until I do the same for the XR700 tomorrow. You will see that it works fine for the download but does nothing for the upload. This shows the settings.... This shows Bandwidth Allocation is on This is the result of an independent test. You can see that the download is correctly limited but the upload isn't. This I have been told is because of pppoe! I will post other results here over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 Here are the results of the same test with the XR700 using the Netgear firmware... Bufferbloat settings to 50% # Excess on And the result As you can see the XR700 with the Netgear software works just fine. It has successfully limited both bandwidths. My only issue here seems to be getting the router to recognize a high priority message. As I said before, it doesn't have a huge range of games and apps and so on and I am struggling to find anything that it considers to be high priority. Next I will flash the XR700 with the later version of DumaOS. It may be a good idea to investigate why I can't get the High Priority Traffic to work first though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 XR700 part two. This is a slight aside, in that I am unable to get the message prioritisation to work. Destiny 2 - Steam TCP: 27015-27030, 27036-27037 UDP: 3074, 3097, 4380, 27000-27031, 27036 That's the information I am using. This is the configuration and as you can see once finished I ran the game and nothing.... so there question here is what am I doing wrong and how do I get that priority light on. I mean absolutely nothing I can do on that PC turns that priority light on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 This is a long post because it explains how Bandwidth Allocation and Excess work. Bandwidth Allocation shares the available bandwidth. Available being that made available by Congestion Control. So if there Congestion Control limits the bandwidth to say 50% then Bandwidth Allocation distributes that 50% between the machines. So if there are five PC’s they get 10% each. Now, Excess ticked means that if one PC is not using that 10% then it can be allocated to the others. So if one PC is not using any bandwidth then the remaining four get it’s 10% so they all end up with 12.5%. So Bandwidth Allocation sets the bandwidth a device gets and when Excess is ticked it sets the MINIMUM bandwidth a device gets. But it should NOT get more than the Congestion Control %. If you untick excess what happens is the PC ONLY gets the Bandwidth Allocation. So yes it will limit the bandwidth if Excess is unticked, but it limits it to the Bandwidth Allocation table. You can see this in the next experiment for the XR700. At the time it only had five devices which makes it nice and easy! Screen1. Set Congestion Control ( anti-buffer bloat ) to Always and all sliders to 50% Share Excess is on ( actually for both Upload and Download ) And this is the result. You can see that both upload and download are limited correctly to the Buffer Bloat or Congestion Control. Now, switch OFF the Share Excess for downloads.... And uploads are correctly limited to 20% of the Congestion Control of Buffer Bloat limit - Notice that uploads have not been affected.... Now switch off uploads... And here we go, now Downloads and Uploads are all correctly limited to both Congestion Control/Buffer Bloat AND Bandwidth Allocation. So! The conclusion here is that the XR700 with the Netgear software works exactly as it should. But it's the only one that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netduma Liam Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 @Harley Are you able to configure the modem to handle PPPoE and connect the XR to it via DHCP? If not do you have another router that you can put in between that can handle this functionality and test if you have better results? We have heard some reports in the past of PPPoE causing regressions in QoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Netduma Liam said: @Harley Are you able to configure the modem to handle PPPoE and connect the XR to it via DHCP? If not do you have another router that you can put in between that can handle this functionality and test if you have better results? We have heard some reports in the past of PPPoE causing regressions in QoS. No, unfortunately the latest Openreach modems are not really modems, they are just a simple converter from optical to digital. They have no interface and no configuration. I managed to place the XR700 inbetween the "modem" and the XR1000. This is the result. Configured in the XR1000 - ( The XR700 of course has all Congestion Control unconfigured ) Measured - So you can see that works just fine. I would say then that the problem is definitely the pppoe. That confirms one of the issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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