Opinion on this idea from a youtuber

[DumaRocks]

There is a youtuber out there named simjc74. 

If i understand him correctly it almost seems like he promotes pushing your speed to the lowest while trying to get a good buffer bloat and low ping.

It almost sounds as if he is suggesting the lag comp in COD's game engines use your internet speed to determine how that will affect you and the higher speed you have the more likely you are going to be on the bad side of lag comp.

Curious of others opinions on this information, is there any validity to this?

I understand ping is key but his position, if I understood it correctly, there is sweet spot between having lowest or throttled speed,ping and buffer bloat. 


Just testing DSLReports I could get similar buffer bloat and pings with these two settings....

1. Anti-Flood Algo: Reactive -> CC: 70/70 -> inline what most on here seem to suggest
2. Anti-Flood Algo: Preemptive -> CC: 25/80 (down/up respectively) -> Inline with what simjc74 suggests

Just curious on different opinions on this? Have not tested thoroughly yet to see if there is any real difference.
 

[bagsta69]

I believe he is a member here and does put forward some good tutorials, is articulate and intelligent. However on this point i do personally disagree with his point of view as it makes no logical sense. (to me)

There are more players out there that are not throttling their connection and having great games than do throttle their connection. 

I have done a lot of tests into this for several years now and have come to the conclusion that at best it makes no difference other than you are that guy in the lobby ruining it for everybody else.

I have tested this on different routers different games etc.

I have also suffered a fair amount of abuse for putting these opinions forward but they are just that. 

Everything that you hear is an opinion, Everything that you see is a perspective. 

Every year this subject comes around like a flu virus and every year I ask for video proof of full game plays one after the other that show that this is the case and after about four years I have not see a single person on here or the official COD forums put forward more than the odd clip or one or two games hours or days apart.

That is all I have on the subject. 

Hey if works for you way to go but please don't join my lobby. lol

[DumaRocks]

I believe he is a member here and does put forward some good tutorials, is articulate and intelligent. However on this point i do personally disagree with his point of view as it makes no logical sense. (to me)

There are more players out there that are not throttling their connection and having great games than do throttle their connection. 

I have done a lot of tests into this for several years now and have come to the conclusion that at best it makes no difference other than you are that guy in the lobby ruining it for everybody else.

I have tested this on different routers different games etc.

I have also suffered a fair amount of abuse for putting these opinions forward but they are just that. 

Everything that you hear is an opinion, Everything that you see is a perspective. 

Every year this subject comes around like a flu virus and every year I ask for video proof of full game plays one after the other that show that this is the case and after about four years I have not see a single person on here or the official COD forums put forward more than the odd clip or one or two games hours or days apart.

That is all I have on the subject. 

Hey if works for you way to go but please don't join my lobby. lol

 

I guess my goal is not to throttle to the point of causing lag in the game but to prevent me from being put at a disadvantage regarding lag comp. I have fast internet, I have good ping but I still get games, more so lately, where bullets just don't register, in HC games friendly name tags aren't appearing or are delayed (got good footage of an example of this) and just other situations. If I found out I was lagging a game out based on throttling, I would stop but if there is any truth to it preventing me from getting penalized and other players benefiting from me having faster speeds, assuming that is the issue, I am interested in testing that out I guess, assuming it doesn't have a negative affect on others outside of them just having an advantage over me.

 

I appreciate the input, might try it out a little but if I am seeing the same BS at least I know it is not a viable solution, for me at least. Interesting theory regarding COD using speed as a way to determine lag comp. Fits into the whole discussion of them having horrible game engines/net code but that is all above my head anyway.

 

[N3CR0]

Pretty sure he hasn't found a sweet spot since his last video was about how frustrated he was with IW with it comes to inconsistent connections.

His videos are the reason I bought a Netduma, can't say any of the settings he used or suggested worked for me though.

[DumaRocks]

Pretty sure he hasn't found a sweet spot since his last video was about how frustrated he was with IW with it comes to inconsistent connections.

His videos are the reason I bought a Netduma, can't say any of the settings he used or suggested worked for me though.

 

Coming to realize that if I exceed than 200 miles out, the chances of having a consistently decent game drops dramatically. The settings don't seem to matter with IW so far. Funny though, with Overwatch, I connect half way across the country and nearly always have a really good result. The minimal time I played BF1, I didn't see much of an issue there either. Near the point of giving up on COD altogether. Pretty sure IW will be my last COD title. It's my favorite style of play but not much I can do at this point, think I have done everything I can on my end. Will do some more playing around for awhile but it might be a pointless task.

[bagsta69]

Friendly name tags not appearing is a perk which I have on every class as soon as I get it. works a treat especially in HC games. I do not believe there is any actual confirmed bona fido dog with a bone proof that it helps.

As to proof that it doesn't help. I just use the old logic of a bottle of red wine a day cannot be that bad for you as that many million French people can't be wrong.lol

As I mentioned in my earlier post, this comes around every year, and if there were any serious truth in it and it proved effective beyond any doubt then I am sure every half serious gamer would be utilising the trick and god only knows what that would do to the online experience, especially on older titles that play P2P.

But as I also said this is just an opinion and point of view. 

To each their own.

Happy hunting.

[bagsta69]

Coming to realize that if I exceed than 200 miles out, the chances of having a consistently decent game drops dramatically. The settings don't seem to matter with IW so far. Funny though, with Overwatch, I connect half way across the country and nearly always have a really good result. The minimal time I played BF1, I didn't see much of an issue there either. Near the point of giving up on COD altogether. Pretty sure IW will be my last COD title. It's my favorite style of play but not much I can do at this point, think I have done everything I can on my end. Will do some more playing around for awhile but it might be a pointless task.

I gave up on IW after week 2, BUT, and heres the kicker, I have tried and tried after updates etc but still only had a handful of fun games. 

Gave up worrying about winning, losing, kdr the whole lot and if my friends were playing it id join up just to shoot the shit and have a few laughs.

Played with a US friend I'm in UK with around 120-150 ms ping to a US side server and we came in top 2 nearly every game for over and hour on IW. 

When we played on a UK server exactly the same results so I ping local around 12 ms ping and to USA over 100ms and it made no difference, 

Occasionally on really close gunfights where you meet an enemy around a corner you would get dicked if you had the higher ping but for the most part no difference.

You will lose your mind trying to work it out I promise you, I just try to get myself into the lowest ping server I can with the best BB I can get and forget it and play.

Happy Hunting.

[ColonicBoom]

It almost sounds as if he is suggesting the lag comp in COD's game engines use your internet speed to determine how that will affect you and the higher speed you have the more likely you are going to be on the bad side of lag comp.

 

Curious of others opinions on this information, is there any validity to this?

 

My opinion is that Sim is mistaken in his belief that bandwidth has any bearing on lag-compensation / ping-compensation at all.

It doesn't make any sense from a networking perspective.

 

I also don't bother with DSL reports, personally think it's a waste of time fiddling about with all of that testing, although I'll admit that I used to try all of that stuff myself.

As far as bufferbloat goes, just find a level on your sliders that stops the spikes and then always set it to that when gaming.

 

There are a loads of 'proof' videos on youtube and pretty much all of them only prove that the majority of testers don't understand what a 'control' or a 'variable' is.

[DumaRocks]

My opinion is that Sim is mistaken in his belief that bandwidth has any bearing on lag-compensation / ping-compensation at all.

It doesn't make any sense from a networking perspective.

 

I also don't bother with DSL reports, personally think it's a waste of time fiddling about with all of that testing, although I'll admit that I used to try all of that stuff myself.

As far as bufferbloat goes, just find a level on your sliders that stops the spikes and then always set it to that when gaming.

 

There are a loads of 'proof' videos on youtube and pretty much all of them only prove that the majority of testers don't understand what a 'control' or a 'variable' is.

 

I don't have an opinion one way or the other, don't know enough really to have one yet. I think, at least the way I understood it, is that there is a belief the net coding on COD's engine uses speeds to determine lag comp which is where the talk about throttling comes from but still maintaining a low ping and good buffer bloat rating. Have no idea if there is a truth to this but I think that is the idea behind the concept of throttling your internet speed. He didn't state this outright in the video but that was my interpretation of what he was saying. 

 

Now, the amount I would throttle mine does not seem like it would fall into an area of affecting other peoples experience since the upload is 10 higher than the recommended and the download is the one I drop to 25. From my understanding, download has little to any affect on the actual game itself unless your hosting otherwise it is just mainly for the stuff like winner circle but not even sure about that. Dropping it did surprisingly give me the most consistent BB and ping for whatever reason. How it plays in game, that is still yet to be determined I guess.

 

Those are just the settings that fall into that area and I am still able to maintain a good ping and buffer bloat. I did end up switching from Reactive too Preemptive so it did cut down my available speed.

 

Truth be told, I don't know what the heck I am doing LOL.

 

 

 

 

[bagsta69]

 

Truth be told, I don't know what the heck I am doing LOL.

 

 

 

 

THAT is the most honest statement I have seen on the interweb in years and you have no idea how much I respect you for saying it. WOW. Thank you, you have restored my faith in something. Not sure what it is but thank you anyway. lol 

Really my friend, Just lower your speeds a little to allow for local congestion and you will be good to go. If you want anymore input please drop me a PM and when free I will try to help you out as much as I can with explanations etc. 

[iAmMoDBoX]

My opinion is that Sim is mistaken in his belief that bandwidth has any bearing on lag-compensation / ping-compensation at all.

It doesn't make any sense from a networking perspective.

 

It makes no sense at all... But I'll tell ya, it FEELS way better lol

 

[ColonicBoom]

there is a belief the net coding on COD's engine uses speeds to determine lag comp which is where the talk about throttling comes from

 

Now, the amount I would throttle mine does not seem like it would fall into an area of affecting other peoples experience since the upload is 10 higher than the recommended and the download is the one I drop to 25. Dropping it did surprisingly give me the most consistent BB and ping for whatever reason.

 

 

Some people do think that, I just think that they're mistaken.

'Lag compensation' is ping/latency compensation, not bandwidth compensation. It's about the difference in time it takes for the players' consoles to communicate with the server, etc.

There's no need to compensate one player over another when it comes to bandwidth because it's irrelevant.

Bandwidth only becomes an issue if a player doesn't have enough to play the game but it uses very little so it's not often a problem.

 

Throttling to reduce bufferbloat (stop the spikes = stabilise your ping) is exactly right, that's what the anti-flood is for. It will reduce any large spikes caused by local to congestion by so much that they are inconsequential.

If someone at your house jumps on youtube while you're at 100/100 on your sliders then your game ping will go all over the place, if you have your anti-flood set at the right levels and are using hyperlane then you shouldn't even be able to tell whether they're online or not.

 

But that's not got anything to do with lag-compensation. That's just reducing your bandwidth to negate bufferbloat.

That's why I think they're mistaken anyway.

[iAmMoDBoX]

Some people do think that, I just think that they're mistaken.

'Lag compensation' is ping/latency compensation, not bandwidth compensation. It's about the difference in time it takes for the players' consoles to communicate with the server, etc.

There's no need to compensate one player over another when it comes to bandwidth because it's irrelevant.

Bandwidth only becomes an issue if a player doesn't have enough to play the game but it uses very little so it's not often a problem.

 

YOU know that, but I'm not quite sure the devs know this. Which is why BO3 did an upload speed test when connecting to the servers.

[ColonicBoom]

It makes no sense at all... But I'll tell ya, it FEELS way better lol

 

 

Very nice gameplay.

But I know that you know that throttling to 200 isn't the reason for you being good. It's because you're quick, accurate and good at prediction.

 

I mean quite good, not as good as me obviously 

[ColonicBoom]

YOU know that, but I'm not quite sure the devs know this. Which is why BO3 did an upload speed test when connecting to the servers.

 

Did it? I don't have an answer to that. Unless it was for the P2P 'fallback', that would make sense I suppose. Hosting the lobby must use a chunk more bandwidth.

 

I did notice that in the Xbox network settings (or was it BO3 network settings?), it topped out at something like 4200k or something like that, even though I had a load more 'up' than that back then.

[iAmMoDBoX]

Did it? I don't have an answer to that. Unless it was for the P2P 'fallback', that would make sense I suppose. Hosting the lobby must use a chunk more bandwidth.

 

I did notice that in the Xbox network settings (or was it BO3 network settings?), it topped out at something like 4200k or something like that, even though I had a load more 'up' than that back then.

 

And when you got that to say 200Kbps it was a clear advantage for you lol

[ColonicBoom]

And when you got that to say 200Kbps it was a clear advantage for you lol

 

Nope, tested it to death. No advantage for me at all. It felt exactly the same. People were still just as easy to kill 

[iAmMoDBoX]

Nope, tested it to death. No advantage for me at all. It felt exactly the same. People were still just as easy to kill 

 

Then you're one of the lucky few. My friend had a 200 Mbps Verizon fiber line and he couldn't hit someone standing still... Throttled him down to 200 Kbps and it was smooth as butter. I know it makes absolutely no sense, but it works.

[Netduma Fraser]

Simjc is great, he is a member here and does post from time to time. I don't believe in the throttling theory but there is enough people that argue either way that it works or doesn't - at the end of the day whatever works best for you to have a good gaming experience.

[ColonicBoom]

Sim's helped a lot of people with their settings.

 

I've not seen one where he actually says that 'throttling improves lag compensation' (it pains me to even write that) but if he did then that's the part that I think he's mistaken on.

 

But as Fraser said, a lot of people strongly believe one way or the other and as long it's not messing the game up with packet loss then do whatever floats your boat.

 

You're best off trialing it for yourself and see what you think.

[maazsk97]

I used to game on 6/0.5 dsl connection and now i have 25/5 fiber but it makes no difference as i used to get 8ms ping on dsl with fastpath and now its 2ms on fiber except the fact that i can host lobbies now due to faster upload speed. All matters is ping and line stability. You can upload large files while gaming which will make your connection jittery and can give you an advantage. I have run into players with a jittery line and they always win in a CQC 1v1. However i don't recommend doing this as it can ruin everyones experience. So throttling does not do much except stopping you from getting host imo.