gyrichjames Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hello all, and thank you in advance for your help. I'm typing this from memory for now, but can provide more details later tonight. Prior to Friday, when the problem started, I was having an overall positive experience with the R1, although occasionally streaming video would take a while to start loading on computer internet browsers. I've had my R1 since August 25. My problem: Woke up Friday and all the lights were off on the top of my Netduma R1 unit. On the back of the unit, the PWR light was steady on, nothing else. Tried hitting reset button, same thing. Tried disconnecting from power and reconnecting after 10 seconds; unit beeped once, but same as above. Couldn't login to router, so, disconnected it and unplugged it, because I had to go to work that morning, and was unavailable to work on the router again until the next day, Saturday afternoon. On Saturday, I hooked it back up and was able to login. Had to redo initial router setup, presumably from hitting reset button; no problem. Noticed that lights on top of unit (wifi, ports 1-5) were blinking constantly and in different patterns, never stopping. Tested unit by playing some COD: Advanced Warfare and doing some internet browsing on laptop (wifi) and desktop (wired). Wifi and wired connections were going in and out constantly. During certain outage periods, all of which were short, I was also disconnected from being logged into the router. Testing duration was about 3 hours. COD was exhibiting significant spikes in lag; the kind where you suddenly find yourself where you were several seconds ago with no warning. Although Advanced Warfare has been a lagalicious experience for me since it came out (and that's a whole 'nother conversation), the lag was never anywhere near this bad, and I attribute it to the router issues. More on that below. I've spent the last 16 or so years fixing/building/etc computers so fortunately I keep a stockpile of replacement parts including routers. I hooked up another router, and the connection is stable, including in COD, which is why I attribute the above issues to the R1. My setup: ISP: At&t customer since they were Ameritech , current user of their Uverse 18mbps plan. Strangely, on speedtest.net, I always test at 40-50mbps though. My speedtests have been that way for years, even before buying the R1. ISP hardware: Motorola/ARRIS NVG589 Hardware setup: I used the instructions found here for the original setup of my NVG589 and R1: http://forum.netduma.com/topic/511-how-to-dmz-r1-on-uverse/. Connected devices (wired): Xbox one, Xbox 360, smart tv, desktop computer. Connected devices (wireless): 2 android phones, two laptops, ipad mini. There are other devices owned by people that come and go, but these are the mainstays. My history (maybe not necessary reading, but more about me): As I said in the setup description above, I've been an At&t customer for decades now, going back to playing MOHAA (cool points to anyone who knows it) on dial-up on my "hardcore" (at the time) 700mhz Athlon desktop back in the 90's. However, over the years, I've noticed a gradual decline in at&t internet service quality, only affecting my gaming, that I have never been able to resolve. I've had dozens of calls with At&t, scoured the internet trying every config or solution I could find, to no avail. The last 3-4 call of dutys have been pretty unenjoyable for me because there's a sort of "permalag" that I can't get rid of. While I do suspect some of the issue is bad netcode in the games, and some of it is my geographical location, I'm desperate for a fluid, accurate connection. It's gotten to the point that I can't derive much enjoyment from competitive gaming anymore. That was the inspiration behind me buying this $200 router; I've never spent that much on a router before, and I've tried several. To it's credit, while the R1 didn't completely remove the permalag, it reduced it enough to where I didn't spend the entire time playing fighting the urge to scream/rage quit/throw my controller. I was actually enjoying COD: AW somewhat, and the Black Ops 3 beta was quite fun, although it still had its issues. Let me know if further info is needed. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netduma Staff Netduma Crossy Posted October 5, 2015 Netduma Staff Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hi GyrichJames, welcome to the forum First of all, are you on the latest firmware version? You can find the latest version by looking on the bottom of any page. The latest is 1.03.4 and if yours isn't on that you can upgrade here. Could you try changing the ethernet cable from between the Netduma and the modem in case it is faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted October 5, 2015 Administrators Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hey, welcome to the forum! As Crossy suggested would be a good idea to swap out the ethernet cable, though as you said you used another router I assume you would have used the same ethernet cable. Could you do a factory reset from settings > miscellaneous instead of the button in the back in future (it may be worth doing one from here anyway now) How long do the connections drop and how frequently? Could you run this program https://www.pingplotter.com/please so we can see these results more clearly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrichjames Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 @Crossy and @Netduma Fraser: Thank you for responding. Yes, I am using the same ethernet cable for the backup router I'm currently using. However, I will download latest firmware, swap ethernet cable, and factory reset via settings > misc, and test further. If that fails, I'll run pingplotter and get back to you guys. I expect to be able to do this late tonight, so please expect my results within the next 5.5 - 7.5 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrichjames Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Ok, did all of the things suggested except pingplotter; the R1 did great for almost a full round of COD AW team deathmatch, then the internet connection failed right before the match ended. @Netduma Fraser, to answer your earlier question, the connection seems to drop for a matter of seconds, then reconnect, repeatedly. I tried joining another match after the connection reestablished, was in the match for a couple mins, then disconnected. Ran pingplotter. Never used this before so I'm not sure I ran it correctly. It asked me to enter a target URL so I randomly chose msn.com and let it run for ~15 mins. Tried to play some more COD AW while I waited, got in for a match and a half, no problem. pingplotter attached. if I ran it wrong please advise and I'll re run tomorrow (it's 1am here). www.msn.com.pp2.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I would suggest you enter 8.8.8.8 into the target IP. Hop 3 after your routers which is your isp which is showing 58.3% packet loss. Do not worry about hop 9 it is set not to respond to pings so shows 100% pl Please re test using 8.8.8.8 to make certain, and keep the plotter on while you game and show us one while it drops out, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted October 6, 2015 Administrators Share Posted October 6, 2015 I would just reiterate exactly what Zennon has said here, let us know how that goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrichjames Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Ok I'm starting to do what you suggested now. My friend and I are slated to play some Neverwinter on the One, so I'll run pingplotter for the next few hours while we game. I'll report back later tonight. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrichjames Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Ok, see attached. I played about 2 hours of neverwinter on xbox one, then played COD modern warfare 2 on xbox 360 for about 45 mins. Neverwinter was really bad, constant freezing and disconnects. Don't think it was (just) my setup though, as my friend that I was playing with experienced the same thing, to a lesser degree. You mentioned hops; I've heard the term before, can you help me understand what they do/mean, and what the meaning is for what you said about hops 3 and 9 on the previous pingplotter? google-public-dns-a.google.com.pp2.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 So the hops are the route your internet takes to the destination and back hop 3 is the first hop that is out side your home the ISP's first hop and at 63% this is bad packet loss means the information is being dropped and then having to be resent until it is successful. Sometimes servers will be set to not respond to ping when they are being used a lot so in your last screen shot hop 9 was not responding to ping's and pingplotter was showing 100% PL that is a false positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted October 7, 2015 Administrators Share Posted October 7, 2015 Zennon has described perfectly what is happening here so it appears that it is not the router that is at fault, I would suggest running this frequently over different times of the day to collect evidence to take to your ISP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrichjames Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 @Zennon, thank you for the explanation, I understand what you mean by hops now. @Netduma Fraser, my problem, as described in the OP, is that I awoke Friday to find the R1 completely non-functional except for the PWR light, and it remained that way for an extended period of time. Also, as I stated, the experience I had Saturday trying to troubleshoot the issue, with the internet connection going in and out, are indicative of router malfunction and have nothing to do with my ISP. I wasn't having any issues at all with the R1 prior to Friday, and when I disconnect the R1 and use my other router I don't have the above connectivity issues. So, the issue of this thread is not resolved. I agree that it is a good idea to use pingplotter to mount a case to take to my ISP, but I am still testing the R1 as thoroughly and extensively as I can to make sure I don't end up with a lemon. I originally emailed Netduma with this issue, and Netduma Luke said that a replacement could be issued if the forum wasn't able to resolve my problem. Because of the arbitrary and inexplicable nature of the issue, I'm concerned that the unit may work fine for a while and then die on me after I've gotten beyond the point where I can get a replacement. May I ask how long the unit is covered for replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_Wildcats_Fans Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I assume that the router is in a well ventilated area so that it is not potentially overheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I would run a ping plotter test to 8.8.8.8 like you have but just run it with only your ISP router/modem inline. To prove either way whats causing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrichjames Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 My intention is to continue testing the router to see if it continues to show major issues. I'd prefer to get a replacement because the router has exhibited issues for seemingly no reason, but whether I can or can't, I'll decide how to deal with the quality of the connection itself after that is decided. @ any Netduma staff, please provide an answer to my question above regarding the exchange period for my R1 which was purchased on August 24th. Thank you all for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted October 7, 2015 Administrators Share Posted October 7, 2015 Ahh I apologise, I must have missed some information here. I would advise doing as Zennon suggested on your ISP hub/modem to double check as it definitely seems from the photo so far that loss is coming from on the third hop so just to rule it out it would be a good idea. Continue to test, if there are stills issues we can do a 1 on 1, then If the issue is something we cannot resolve we can do a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrichjames Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 @Netduma Fraser, Understood. The earliest I'll be able to run the pingplotter, as Zennon suggested, is tomorrow evening (it is afternoon here). I'll report back then. Also, as an unrelated-sidebar, I'm super looking forward to the new QoS update /salivate Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted October 8, 2015 Administrators Share Posted October 8, 2015 @Netduma Fraser, Understood. The earliest I'll be able to run the pingplotter, as Zennon suggested, is tomorrow evening (it is afternoon here). I'll report back then. Also, as an unrelated-sidebar, I'm super looking forward to the new QoS update /salivate Thanks for your help. Okay great let us know how it goes! I know right it's super exciting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy clam Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Man they gotta make this thing mac friendly as I would love to run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrichjames Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 All, My apologies for not responding for so long; got caught up in other things. I haven't done the above pingplotter test, just wanted to resurrect this thread. I expect to have time to do it on Saturday during the day, so I'll post back then. For the record, online performance has been pretty good. I've been able to play Cod AW and enjoy it. I feel like if I could get that third hop issue resolved, I would see the increase in online quality that I've been looking for for so many years. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted October 23, 2015 Administrators Share Posted October 23, 2015 Do let us know the results when you're able to test it. Ahh that's really good to hear, yes hopefully we can get that all sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrichjames Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 K, I've been busy and still haven't run the pingplotter again (haven't been home much). However, I did go to a gaming lounge that I found out about, that has some crazy fast, high-quality T1 line for their consoles and pcs. So I went there to, among other things, see how COD AW was on their setup. It was AMAZING; for all intents and purposes no sense of permalag. Everything was tight and snappy, my hits registered, I was back to my former glory days; back to back matches at ~29k~12d. Now, I have a 45 down/5 up Uverse connection at home, and the Netduma brought the COD AW experience from nightmarish to "enjoyable at times", but I wonder is it possible to get the experience I had in the lounge, at home. I'm finally going home tonight, so I'll run pingplotter first thing, and post the results. In the meantime, anyone have any info on how I can find out how far I am from my AT&T distribution center/tower, and whether that's a factor I need to be concerned with in terms of trying to improve my online gaming quality? I'm getting married next year, and will be buying a place, and I REALLY would like to start out there with the best possible connection; I've been battling AT&T ever since they were ameritech, and if I can't fix the issue at my current place, I at least want to ensure the internet in my next place is banging. On a side note, anyone have info on getting business internet at a residential address? Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Looking back at your post the first hop that is your ISP has loads of packet loss. When you retest see if it is still like this and if it is show them the proof, it must be a pain gaming on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyrichjames Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Ok all, I've ran ping plotter for about 30 mins, for IP 8.8.8.8. Looks like packet loss % is in the 70s now, see attached. Thanks. *Edit* I ran it as Zennon requested, with the only devices attached to the netduma being my PC (to run pingplotter) and the NVG589 provided by my ISP. google-public-dns-a.google.com.pp2.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yeah the lightspeed ISP hop is creating bad packet loss, You will have to push them on this or move to another provider gyrichjames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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