UPnP and two ps4's

[belly120]

Ok so the ongoing saga of two consoles on one network continues.  Netduma is setup on point as when i play solo it works really well for the most part.

 

Upnp is active and there are no port forward rules to conflict with it.

 

Only one ps4, mine is active in the geo filter.

 

Only mine is in hyperlane, again to prevent conflicts.

 

UPnP table shows that port 9308 is directed to my ps4.  It also shows 3074 is direct to mine.

It has port mapped 3074 via another external port number to the other ps4 so in theory, open nat although the game on that machine reports moderate.

 

My question is why doesn't port 9308 get port mapped the same way to the other ps4 via an alternate external port?

 

We often find games together are pretty messy, activision talk horse kack about routing 3075 to the second console which doesn't work at all.  case in point, if that were the solution they would allow the port mapping to switch it via UPnP to the second port.  having tested the non UPnP setup and done port forwarding, the second console has massive issues and moderate NAT.  

 

port 9308 gets mapped immediately when i turn on my console after clearing the table so its clearly a core port for ps4's systems.  i don't understand how the second console can simply be blocked and not mapped in the same manner as 3074 via UPnP.  

 

Its fairly safe to say that most posts on the web heavily criticise the ps4's poor UPnP qualities but can you guys buff it from your side at all?

 

we can't join the same party as the first to join a party locks the second console out and then can lead to us getting totally kicked from a game and our NAT status gets messed up.  

 

How in the name of all sanity Sony didn't think that more than one console may exist on the same network is beyond me but i guess they figured saying next gen a lot may make magic happen to solve stuff they couldn't be bothered to address.   

 

we use our billion 8800nl in bridge mode and then the duma dials out to plusnet fibre, we get great solid speeds, both consoles run via powerline adaptors over lan so no wifi.  all the mtu values are adjusted to plusnets recommended 1492 value on duma and consoles, ipv6 is disabled, deep packet processing etc in misc is all off as is local link ipv6 so its all in line on that front. any ideas or is it just down to sony being totally useless which is the general internet consensus?

  

[omega4]

It's my understanding that UPnP is a dynamic process. UPnP forwards ports to consoles as they are needed, not automatically. So, UPnP forwards ports as needed depending on the game, type of activity (e.g. multiplayer), etc.

[belly120]

It's my understanding that UPnP is a dynamic process. UPnP forwards ports to consoles as they are needed, not automatically. So, UPnP forwards ports as needed depending on the game, type of activity (e.g. multiplayer), etc.

yes but simply turning on the ps4 triggers port 9308 to register in the upnp table not gaming or accessing anything hence my annoyance that the 2nd console is getting locked out of that port is a pain.  

[Netduma Fraser]

Have two consoles open at the same time is tricky. However, if you look at the network settings for both consoles they should say NAT Type 2 which is open. I believe the CoD reading to be inaccurate. It does sound like you need to add the other console to the allow list if it pops up: http://support.netduma.com/support/solutions/articles/16000022357--with-the-geo-filter-how-do-i-play-with-friends-

 

We will see what we can do with UPnP in DumaOS to see if there is anything we can do. At the very least port forwarding should allow you to specify external & internal ports which will help.

[XSXS]

What is your nat type on the ps4's? The reason I ask is that on multiple xbox you can open nat on the dashboard but in game one will be moderate. From my research the xbox and router are doing their job, it is just that Activision cant handle dealing with multiple consoles on the same network.

[belly120]

Have two consoles open at the same time is tricky. However, if you look at the network settings for both consoles they should say NAT Type 2 which is open. I believe the CoD reading to be inaccurate. It does sound like you need to add the other console to the allow list if it pops up: http://support.netduma.com/support/solutions/articles/16000022357--with-the-geo-filter-how-do-i-play-with-friends-

 

We will see what we can do with UPnP in DumaOS to see if there is anything we can do. At the very least port forwarding should allow you to specify external & internal ports which will help.

Ok i'll give that a look tonight

[belly120]

What is your nat type on the ps4's? The reason I ask is that on multiple xbox you can open nat on the dashboard but in game one will be moderate. From my research the xbox and router are doing their job, it is just that Activision cant handle dealing with multiple consoles on the same network.

both post as type 2 but from time to time it will be at the expense of the other console. 

[Netduma Jack]

both post as type 2 but from time to time it will be at the expense of the other console. 

 

We've been struggling with this NAT issue since we launched. I can tell you that it often ends in the conclusion that indeed, Sony has dropped the ball on their UPnP. Our UPnP is generally fantastic, but it often can't overcome the issues surrounding multiple PS4's on the network. You've tried all the correct steps however, and if you get type 2 from time to time that's great. It's frustrating that it's almost impossible to solve from our end, but we're giving it our best shot in DumaOS.

 

How's your gameplay with both consoles? How often do you get type 2 on both?

[mosvalve]

Forgive me if I'm being a contrarian. Wouldn't it technically be Activision's problem since the issue persists on both XBOX and PS4? Doesn't the issue also persist when ports are manually forwarded?

 

Also, as an example, back in year one Destiny Bungie had major issues with the dual console dilema. I know because we had the problem on our network. Then with some persistent nudging from the community, Bungie stated they found the issue to be theirs and fixed it.

 

Later, maybe around ear two? Bungie came out with a major patch. Some of that patch had supposed network fixes. Lo and behold, the patch broke the dual console communication issue once again so the wife and I couldn't play destiny together. They admitted the error and then fixed it. I'll try to link Bungies posts.

 

The wife and I play Battlefield 1 and other games together-no problems. COD...well it's a struggle.

 

 

Edit: I'm inserting my foot in mouth as I type, seeing that Bungie has this issue again. lol

[Netduma Jack]

Forgive me if I'm being a contrarian. Wouldn't it technically be Activision's problem since the issue persists on both XBOX and PS4? Doesn't the issue also persist when ports are manually forwarded?

 

Also, as an example, back in year one Destiny Bungie had major issues with the dual console dilema. I know because we had the problem on our network. Then with some persistent nudging from the community, Bungie stated they found the issue to be theirs and fixed it.

 

Later, maybe around ear two? Bungie came out with a major patch. Some of that patch had supposed network fixes. Lo and behold, the patch broke the dual console communication issue once again so the wife and I couldn't play destiny together. They admitted the error and then fixed it. I'll try to link Bungies posts.

 

The wife and I play Battlefield 1 and other games together-no problems. COD...well it's a struggle.

 

That's interesting; I assumed it was mostly console based but you're probably right. Here's hoping Activision work on solving the issue, though I know that the issue has persisted since at least before Advanced Warfare, so I can't see a fix on the horizon. As I say, we're trying from our end to figure out a work-around. It'd be interesting to see those Bungie posts though, thanks for the info

[XSXS]

Forgive me if I'm being a contrarian. Wouldn't it technically be Activision's problem since the issue persists on both XBOX and PS4? Doesn't the issue also persist when ports are manually forwarded?

 

Also, as an example, back in year one Destiny Bungie had major issues with the dual console dilema. I know because we had the problem on our network. Then with some persistent nudging from the community, Bungie stated they found the issue to be theirs and fixed it.

 

Later, maybe around ear two? Bungie came out with a major patch. Some of that patch had supposed network fixes. Lo and behold, the patch broke the dual console communication issue once again so the wife and I couldn't play destiny together. They admitted the error and then fixed it. I'll try to link Bungies posts.

 

The wife and I play Battlefield 1 and other games together-no problems. COD...well it's a struggle.

 

 

Edit: I'm inserting my foot in mouth as I type, seeing that Bungie has this issue again. lol

Yeah totally agree that cod Activision is the cause of the moderate nat issues. My xbox and 3 different routers are handling the ports correctly. One will have 3074/75 and the other would one would have a random port number assigned to it and noth would be properly forwarded on my router. Open nat via the dashboard but one would be moderate in game at times. I think Activisions net code does not like any console using any ports besides 3074/75 and reports it as moderate or strict. At least this is what I've noticed on xbox.

[mosvalve]

That's interesting; I assumed it was mostly console based but you're probably right. Here's hoping Activision work on solving the issue, though I know that the issue has persisted since at least before Advanced Warfare, so I can't see a fix on the horizon. As I say, we're trying from our end to figure out a work-around. It'd be interesting to see those Bungie posts though, thanks for the info

Here is what Bungie says today about the problem and a little on how to fix it.

 

https://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Troubleshoot?oid=13602

 

Below is the statement that prompted me to buy NetDuma in the first place.

 

If you are using a combo modem/router, and are experiencing frequent disconnects from Destiny, you may be able to resolve your problems by disabling the router functions on your modem and connecting a separate consumer router.

 

This is commonly referred to as “Bridge” mode, but may also be called “NAT Disabled” mode.

 

*Once I purchased the NetDuma these issues went away for us on Destiny* edit

 

 

I'll try to find the comments they pushed out live. It might take a little digging, that was two years ago after all.

[Netduma Fraser]

Very interesting, thanks for letting us know!

[mosvalve]

Have two consoles open at the same time is tricky. However, if you look at the network settings for both consoles they should say NAT Type 2 which is open. I believe the CoD reading to be inaccurate. It does sound like you need to add the other console to the allow list if it pops up: http://support.netduma.com/support/solutions/articles/16000022357--with-the-geo-filter-how-do-i-play-with-friends-

 

We will see what we can do with UPnP in DumaOS to see if there is anything we can do. At the very least port forwarding should allow you to specify external & internal ports which will help.

I was wondering how useful an Ethernet switch in between the router and connected consoles would be. Forgive me for asking (loaded question), but is it possible that the auto negotiation be better in a dedicated switch than the NetDuma? Wouldn't the switch have a better time determining where the traffic is supposed to go...theoretically since that's all the switch does? Or is it robust enough in the NetDuma to handle it?

[e38BimmerFN]

Might give this a try:

http://forum.netduma.com/topic/20596-any-ideas-on-this-one/page-2?do=findComment&comment=144508

 

LAN wired connections between game consoles and router is preferred for best connections and performances. Use CAT6 lan cabling...

Direct connection with game console to the router is preferred rather than going thru a switch, however using a switch doesn't mean a bad thing necessarily.

[Netduma Fraser]

I was wondering how useful an Ethernet switch in between the router and connected consoles would be. Forgive me for asking (loaded question), but is it possible that the auto negotiation be better in a dedicated switch than the NetDuma? Wouldn't the switch have a better time determining where the traffic is supposed to go...theoretically since that's all the switch does? Or is it robust enough in the NetDuma to handle it?

 

I shouldn't think a switch would make a difference, the Netduma will handle it just fine

[mosvalve]

I shouldn't think a switch would make a difference, the Netduma will handle it just fine

Thats what I thought. Thanks!

[JustLosinIt]

Personally fixed this issue setting up a secondary router to my main router and connected the secondary playstation to that one while leaving the first playstation connected to the main router.

I originally had 1 playstation reading nat type 3 (strict) and one reading nat type 2 (moderate) but now they are both type 1 (open) 

I am sure there are other solutions but I tried multiple ideas and until i did the split was unsuccessful with any other solutions I could find online. 

Truly hope this helps anyone else with the same issue