After months of testing...

[The way forward]

Hey all, just a few words about my experience using the R1.

 

I purchased the R1 earlier this year, around February time, as i was unable to play Call of duty on my XBox 360. This was due to the horrid 'Lag compensation' as most people in the know complain about, as it makes the game completely unfair/unfun, especially if you've a fast internet connection like myself (50 down, 20 up, 15 ping). I've actually found using the R1 actually makes the games worse for me, and here's why:

 

The lag compensation is far greater, as i now only connect to people within local regions (England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and part of Europe), as when i connect to players in America, my ping is well above 150ms+, and the lag compensation is no more a burden, and more on my side as i win more gun fights like i should be winning.

 

I turned the Netduma off last night, after having terrible connections for an hour, and played a few Ground War games in an American lobby, and went 76-3 the first game. I haven't been able to do anywhere near good as that with the Netduma on. To be honest, it's been unplayable. With it on, i don't see players, they pop out of nowhere on my screen, and when i look at killcams, i'm shooting the opposite way, after being killed with 1 bullet. This has been the case before i bought the R1, and after, nothing has changed.

 

My internet runs smoothly with no packet loss, and I've tested different settings such as: tweeking the Geo filter, Strict mode, Ping assist, and even the Congestion control, and nothing really works.

 

The funny thing is, i've had better results connecting my XBox directly to my wireless P.C in bridge mode and the game plays better lol, but still not enjoyable enough to play.

 

The R1 does what it says on the tin: ''Dominate lag'', which it does do without a doubt. There is no more lag within the game, as you connect to the host nearby, but to those who bought this router to solve issues only with COD, as i did, it hasn't solved the issue for me, which has been frustrating. The only way to solve the issue i feel, is to delay my ping by 100ms or so, so that i'm playing in real time, as i'm always behind people in game. This is an inbuilt algorithm by the COD dev team, as i watched a YouTube video a while back from OvenBakedMuffin explaining just that.

 

I've got nothing bad to say about the Netduma gang, all seem real friendly on here, and willing to help, but this has been so frustrating. Is there anything that i can do differently that others have found important? Is anyone else suffering with the same thing?

 

Any help will be appreciated, otherwise it's a few weeks of learning how to use Netem etc... and i really don't have time for that lol, but it may only be the solution.

 

TWF.

[lukasz]

Well i know that you had stated you have done all the tuning but if you could post those info form that link

http://wiki.netduma.com/doku.php?id=lag_support_instructions

as well as what version of firmware you are runing and what cloud settings you are using right now?

[abc123]

so this actually sounds like the netduma exposed an issue with Jitter i'd wager...

 

The reason you play so well in games against the US with 170ms+ ping times is because lag compensation works in your favor for these games.

 

But when you get to around 40ms and below this likely is no longer the case...

 

Things to check:

1. What is the latency on your monitor/TV (some people don't know but this can be over 150ms on some TVs when not setup properly)?

2. What is your jitter and line quality? http://www.pingtest.net/ http://www.dslreports.com/pingtest

 

Of course, i could just be whistling dixie and maybe you are having a bad experience.  I'm just a dude on the internet trying to help another dude, dude.

[Netduma Iain]

Honestly not being defensive but I don't believe the lag comp theory at all. BUT if it's true just move your home to USA on the router and problem solved.

[pingleetful]

Honestly not being defensive but I don't believe the lag comp theory at all. BUT if it's true just move your home to USA on the router and problem solved.

This is what they tried to do in MW3 (failed) and BO2 (succeeded, but with modifications): automated latency balancing (aka lagcomp, one of its many definitions). It's a software-based fairness-balancing technique which "... attempts to equalize the delay differences [between players] by constantly measuring network delays and adjusting players' total delays by adding artificial lag." Obviously it has positive intentions -- to let laggy players have good games too -- which is what the devs repeatedly stated during the public outcry; they just didn't implement it very well and many players hated it.

The problem with MW3 is that their algorithm added too much artificial delay to players with low pings, leaving them with more total delay than the laggy players, not the same amount of delay; that's why purposely delaying your connection (if you had a good connection to begin with) made gameplay better. On top of that, if there were no laggy players in the lobby when you delayed your connection, the game would bug out and add a huge amount of delay to everyone else, thereby giving you a massive advantage over them. Thus the "lag comp theory" was borne, where being laggy gave you an advantage.

 

As shown by OvenBakedMuffin, it only applies to those two games; more recent CODs do not behave in this way (BO3 unknown), nor do older CODs, nor do any other known games outside of academia. Given that automated latency balancing was published ~5 years before MW3/BO2, he is well-within his right to suggest they used it; it makes perfect sense given the behavior of BO2 in particular. The only alternative is a spectacular failure in development which accidentally created the exact same behavior -- far less likely than they tried to make a fair game but made mistakes along the way.

Some recent conspiracy theories suggest they may have adapted the method for skill-balancing (delay good players as opposed to good connections), which is possible of course, but OBM has never suggested that.

 

The Netduma R1 should help with newer CODs (Ghosts and AW) because their main problem is matchmaking. It won't improve the games' code, however, which is just awful (and I say that lovingly, as I still enjoy the games despite that). You can't hope to play any recent COD game for a low-latency skill-based experience; the developers made sure of that, even in LAN games with ~0ms ping. There's also quite a few odd bugs floating around in the code right now, and some internet connections (ISP-related) seem to benefit/suffer more than others; it's so unpredictable no one has been able to find a "solution" other than trial and error to find what works best for you. On top of that, the COD dedicated servers (Ghosts and AW) use different software which behaves differently than the regular game. It's just a mess overall; just do what you can, and don't obsess over it. They say they've improved the netcode for BO3, so we'll see if the COD devs can get their game back on track. They still make fun games (subjectively), but they really need to make sure they build those games on a solid foundation.

 

 

 

Just thought I'd finally make an account and help clear that up. OvenBakedMuffin was correct, but people don't pay attention to anything else he says -- even if it's essential information contained in the same video -- because they'd rather obsess over something they find controversial; it's the same everywhere really, for everyone. Hope that helps you guys -- maybe you can design your next router to counter bad game development. And save the world while you're at it =D

[Zennon]

I played MW3 last night with a 20ms ping to host and it played soooo good , no disadvantage at all i played on different host and hosted myself what a great time.

 

So i have to say "The problem with MW3 is that their algorithm added too much artificial delay to players with low pings, leaving them with more total delay than the laggy players"

 

Does not ring any truth for me

[JConnor]

With all due respect, it seems the OP is riding the conspiracy train versus the fact train.

 

AW and BO2 engine branch games do have an unacceptable internal engine latency, but here is why the whole "lag comp fairness conspiracy" holds no weight:

 

Even with an increased engine latency, a player with a closer connection to a server / host... Thanks to the R1... Should have an advantage because the only thing they are dealing with is the internal engine latency and nothing else versus a player who has 200ms on top of the engine latency to begin with. I can attest to this being true since I average 40ms to a particular dedicated server with zero packet loss, and... I do dominate players with higher pings even if doing so is not enjoyable e.g. they are warping around screen, etc.

[pingleetful]

I played MW3 last night with a 20ms ping to host and it played soooo good , no disadvantage at all i played on different host and hosted myself what a great time.

 

So i have to say "The problem with MW3 is that their algorithm added too much artificial delay to players with low pings, leaving them with more total delay than the laggy players"

 

Does not ring any truth for me

It's been almost 4 years since MW3's release; I hope they would've fixed it by now.

[Zennon]

Turn the duma off and it plays like **** , so no they have not fixed matchmaking, the duma has

[The way forward]

Well i know that you had stated you have done all the tuning but if you could post those info form that link

http://wiki.netduma.com/doku.php?id=lag_support_instructions

as well as what version of firmware you are runing and what cloud settings you are using right now?

 

Thanks, I will upload some screenshots when i get a chance to play online.

 

Currently running the latest version.

[The way forward]

so this actually sounds like the netduma exposed an issue with Jitter i'd wager...

 

The reason you play so well in games against the US with 170ms+ ping times is because lag compensation works in your favor for these games.

 

But when you get to around 40ms and below this likely is no longer the case...

 

Things to check:

1. What is the latency on your monitor/TV (some people don't know but this can be over 150ms on some TVs when not setup properly)?

2. What is your jitter and line quality? http://www.pingtest.net/ http://www.dslreports.com/pingtest

 

Of course, i could just be whistling dixie and maybe you are having a bad experience.  I'm just a dude on the internet trying to help another dude, dude.

 

Yeh, that's it when playing against players in the U.S, lag comp is on my side, but the game lags terribly.

 

I'm not using a gaming monitor etc... i play on a normal tv which has served me fine when i used to play COD4, MW2 and Black Ops 1.

 

I've no jitter by the way.

 

My experience honestly is a bad 1, but i appreciate the help fella 

[The way forward]

Honestly not being defensive but I don't believe the lag comp theory at all. BUT if it's true just move your home to USA on the router and problem solved.

 

Well it has to exist, otherwise we'd all warp around the maps wouldn't we lol.

 

I've tried moving the home to the U.S, but it's just 2/3 bars of laggyness.

[The way forward]

I played MW3 last night with a 20ms ping to host and it played soooo good , no disadvantage at all i played on different host and hosted myself what a great time.

 

So i have to say "The problem with MW3 is that their algorithm added too much artificial delay to players with low pings, leaving them with more total delay than the laggy players"

 

Does not ring any truth for me

 

Glad you had a good experience.

 

Yeh, since MW3 the games have never played the same for me, that's when they started to become unplayable.

 

I wonder why you're experience is much better than mine?

[The way forward]

With all due respect, it seems the OP is riding the conspiracy train versus the fact train.

 

AW and BO2 engine branch games do have an unacceptable internal engine latency, but here is why the whole "lag comp fairness conspiracy" holds no weight:

 

Even with an increased engine latency, a player with a closer connection to a server / host... Thanks to the R1... Should have an advantage because the only thing they are dealing with is the internal engine latency and nothing else versus a player who has 200ms on top of the engine latency to begin with. I can attest to this being true since I average 40ms to a particular dedicated server with zero packet loss, and... I do dominate players with higher pings even if doing so is not enjoyable e.g. they are warping around screen, etc.

 

No offense taken. I'm not riding any train, i'm just searching for a better connection, and the reason to why my experience is so bad.

 

I'm pretty sure that the server in the south of England that i connect to is the problem. I've had much better experiences connecting to other players hosting games, although the connection is never as solid as a dedicated server, but at least i feel i'm playing in real time that way.

[Zennon]

I am not sure why it plays fine for me, do you try the older titles now you have a Netduma? I stopped playing AW because of the low numbers and the awful gameplay.

[The way forward]

I am not sure why it plays fine for me, do you try the older titles now you have a Netduma? I stopped playing AW because of the low numbers and the awful gameplay.

 

I play mainly Black Ops 2, but i have jumped back on Ghosts, MW3 etc... and they play the same way. I didn't buy AW. None of the games have played well for me since Black Ops 1.

[JConnor]

 

I'm not using a gaming monitor etc... i play on a normal tv which has served me fine when i used to play COD4, MW2 and Black Ops 1.

 

 

If you are playing on a TV from 2007 (when CoD4 was released), chances are it is NOT good for gaming... Even if it has a so-called gaming mode.

 

The only way to rule out input latency is to  go  to a 1ms PC monitor because there IS a difference between how TVs render images and how monitors render images as far as speed goes.

[Zennon]

It is input lag you need to look for on a monitor or tv purchase not response time

 

Though a faster response time on top of great input lag cant hurt

[Zennon]

I play mainly Black Ops 2, but i have jumped back on Ghosts, MW3 etc... and they play the same way. I didn't buy AW. None of the games have played well for me since Black Ops 1.

I have a 316km geo in the UK covering just under Scotland to the south edge of the UK with ping assist set to 0 if you want to try that out for size.

 

My base ping is 15ms no jitter 56 down 17 up congestion control set to 70% for both. I had good result's on a 6mb down 1 mb up adsl package with these settings so it is not bandwidth based.

[The way forward]

It is input lag you need to look for on a monitor or tv purchase not response time

 

Though a faster response time on top of great input lag cant hurt

 

Yeh for sure. I'll keep that in mind 

 

Thing is, this was never a problem with the older COD's (COD4, MW2 & Black Ops 1), and my tv was a lot worse then lol.

[The way forward]

I have a 316km geo in the UK covering just under Scotland to the south edge of the UK with ping assist set to 0 if you want to try that out for size.

 

My base ping is 15ms no jitter 56 down 17 up congestion control set to 70% for both. I had good result's on a 6mb down 1 mb up adsl package with these settings so it is not bandwidth based.

 

Will try these settings tonight when i get a chance, but i've tweeked things so much, i don't know if there's anything else that i can do lol.

 

Appreciate the help though, thanks. 

[Zennon]

I set these then turn off my pc , i do not look at the duma geo page, I pull the black out blinds down put my try hard pants on get in my chair and forget everything just get lost in the game.

 

I know the duma is working and just let it do its thing, I play much better not looking at pings and graphs and hosts and things.

 

If feel's good I play, if it dont then back out and find a host who's brother isnt watching Pr0nhub and start again.

[abc123]

 

Yeh, that's it when playing against players in the U.S, lag comp is on my side, but the game lags terribly.

 

I'm not using a gaming monitor etc... i play on a normal tv which has served me fine when i used to play COD4, MW2 and Black Ops 1.

 

I've no jitter by the way.

 

My experience honestly is a bad 1, but i appreciate the help fella 

 

 

if you don't mind sharing the brand and model of the TV i'll happily look up the input lag of said tv...

I honestly think that duma has just exposed an issue and isn't the issue as all it is doing is making you play with people close to you this lowers your ping time to those people and thereby rids the game of it's lag.

 

Pretty simple on a computing and networking front, so more than happy to troubleshoot more with you.

 

and you just got the duma, on the other games you mentioned this TV "worked" because you weren't likely playing with people around you but instead anyone and everyone

[lukasz]

Yebs i can only agrred with gus above...

 

When i frist started with duma i was playing on a tv and was getting crazy...

 

After some advice a have got me self a gaming monitor and boy did i notice a difference...

[Trolling_Farm]

Hey all, just a few words about my experience using the R1.

 

I purchased the R1 earlier this year, around February time, as i was unable to play Call of duty on my XBox 360. This was due to the horrid 'Lag compensation' as most people in the know complain about, as it makes the game completely unfair/unfun, especially if you've a fast internet connection like myself (50 down, 20 up, 15 ping). I've actually found using the R1 actually makes the games worse for me, and here's why:

 

The lag compensation is far greater, as i now only connect to people within local regions (England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and part of Europe), as when i connect to players in America, my ping is well above 150ms+, and the lag compensation is no more a burden, and more on my side as i win more gun fights like i should be winning.

 

I turned the Netduma off last night, after having terrible connections for an hour, and played a few Ground War games in an American lobby, and went 76-3 the first game. I haven't been able to do anywhere near good as that with the Netduma on. To be honest, it's been unplayable. With it on, i don't see players, they pop out of nowhere on my screen, and when i look at killcams, i'm shooting the opposite way, after being killed with 1 bullet. This has been the case before i bought the R1, and after, nothing has changed.

 

My internet runs smoothly with no packet loss, and I've tested different settings such as: tweeking the Geo filter, Strict mode, Ping assist, and even the Congestion control, and nothing really works.

 

The funny thing is, i've had better results connecting my XBox directly to my wireless P.C in bridge mode and the game plays better lol, but still not enjoyable enough to play.

 

The R1 does what it says on the tin: ''Dominate lag'', which it does do without a doubt. There is no more lag within the game, as you connect to the host nearby, but to those who bought this router to solve issues only with COD, as i did, it hasn't solved the issue for me, which has been frustrating. The only way to solve the issue i feel, is to delay my ping by 100ms or so, so that i'm playing in real time, as i'm always behind people in game. This is an inbuilt algorithm by the COD dev team, as i watched a YouTube video a while back from OvenBakedMuffin explaining just that.

 

I've got nothing bad to say about the Netduma gang, all seem real friendly on here, and willing to help, but this has been so frustrating. Is there anything that i can do differently that others have found important? Is anyone else suffering with the same thing?

 

Any help will be appreciated, otherwise it's a few weeks of learning how to use Netem etc... and i really don't have time for that lol, but it may only be the solution.

 

TWF.

I am going to have to agree with you, lag compensation is real and can be useful. I have messed around with flooding my network switching to different servers and by Geo-filtering country based IP's and using VPN's. To a certain degree lag compensation does help but to much lag hurts you also. You have to find a sweet spot in the lag compensation for it to help you.

 

I have never really noticed lag compensation when playing FPS games but since the net is evolving games are also, with peer to peer. Destiny is the game that really made me look into it.

 

https://www.bungie.net/en-US/Forum/Post/66207680/0/0

 

But to be honest playing around with lag compensation is considered cheating in my opinion. You start to use lag to help you rather then play fair with everyone around you.