Netgear XR500 issues in Australia with Vlan Tagging, PPPOE and UPNP

[Zac]

My first post on the forums as a new member, let's see how it goes and hopefully can assist any other Aussies with the same issues. Sorry for a long post in advance but I wanted to be as comprehensive as possible. 

I live in Australia and recently swapped ISP to Internode with a FTTP connection (fibre to the premis which comes with an NBN modem which you can't access or edit so it plugs directly into my router from my house Ethernet port). This requires me to use PPPOE and I have to set Vlan tag ID = 2 | Priority 0. After swapping to the new ISP I found out my old Linksys WRT 1900 ACS (V1) doesn't allow you to set VLan 2 as VLan 1/2 are system reserved so I bought the Netgear Nighthawk XR500 to solve my issues. 

After I swapped speeds are great, connection works but there are a number of known issues with the existing firmware which pertains to PPPOE connections using Vlan, some have also reported issues with IPV6 (I don't use and have disabled)

Consolidated issues:

1. PPPOE with VLan = QOS doesn't work with upload speed. It works and limits download and I read on the forums somewhere that it's because the upload isn't being Vlan tagged or something along those lines. Interestingly if I flash my router to the very first firmware addition the QOS seems to work but the UPNP is still a no go. 

2. Due to the above issue (presuming) even with UPNP enabled my UPNP tables always remain blank. This in turn also means that my port triggering rules I have set up don't get detected or applied. The simple solution to this would be to turn off UPNP and manually set up port forwarding rules but that also presents more vulnerability and it would mean I miss out on the cool features of this new router and my QOS still won't work.

 Potential solutions...

1. I know that Vlan tagging has been a known issue since the router released and a fix has been in the works for quite some time. I don't know if the new upcoming firmware addresses this issue but if anybody with access to the beta/ alpha can check or if it's possible for me to be added to testing program to provide feedback if it fixes the issue that would be amazing as it would eliminate the need for the following fixes. 

2. After sifting and reading through multiple forums some users have found success by setting up a router in front of the XR500 to handle PPPOE and the Vlan tagging. I am unsure on how to do this as my network knowledge is limited. In preparation to undergo this I have flashed my old Linksys WRT 1900 ACS with OpenWRT and connected it via PPPOE & VLan but I don't know the next steps to connect it to my XR500 and have my XR500 as my main router to control everything. (If anybody can assist me with learning how to do this I would really appreciate it) I have read about PPPOE Passthrough, Bridged Mode, using DMZ to connect to routers but I don't know the most appropriate solution or how they all differ. 

3. Flash my XR500 with OpenWRT and say goodbye to my beloved DumaOS and set up QOS manually (I really don't want to do this)

4. Some people have spoken about using a switch to do the PPPOE/ Vlan tagging but I assume I can use my OpenWRT to achieve this same result without buying hardware but might be a suitable fix for anybody else who has this problem and an available switch (Idk what a switch actually is, is it just a modem?)

5. ?

Here are links I found to posts within this forum for relatable issues and for quick reference:

1. Bert talks about DMZ, PPPOE Passthrough, Bridge mode from 2018. Not sure on all the terminology but it's relating to the same issue I am.

2. Netduma Jack suggests to this individual to  setup PPPOE on a seperate modem and it supposedly worked (again I don't know the steps to do this on OpenWRT)

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-Pro-Gaming-Routers/QoS-not-working-with-PPPoE-connection/td-p/1591720

3. 

 

4. Old issue regarding Vlan & QOS / UPNP

5. A couple NetDuma individuals present a couple solutions but not details on how to actually go about it. Probably one of the most relevant links and it's more recent. 

 If anybody could help me with this issue i would be greatly appreciative. At the moment I think my best option is to wait for new Firmware to be released and in the interim use my Linksys WRT 1900 acs flashed with OpenWRT to serve as my connection to PPPOE + VLan tagging and have that connected to my XR500 which can handle everything I just don't know how to do this. 

[Netduma Fraser]

Hey, welcome to the forum!

Will post here instead of via PMs, unfortunately we don't provide phone support as we're a small company. It seems like from your last message you were able to get internet through the Linksys using OpenWRT, so you were able to setup PPPoE and VLAN with it is that correct? If so that's great! All you would need to do now is connect the XR to the Linksys and then find the WAN IP of the XR in System Information, you would then put this IP address in the DMZ section on the Linksys - this can usually be found in Security or Firewall settings. Then disable WiFi on the Linksys. That way everything will be connected to the XR and you'll be able to control all the devices and still use QoS etc.

[Zac]

Hi Fraser,

Once again thanks for your help with this. My partner was a little frustrated with the internet today so I wasn't able to tinker. I will look to try this as soon as possible. Once I give it a go i will let you know of the results and see if QOS is working.

Forgive my limited knowledge as this might seem like a really dumb question. When I connect my XR to my Linksys. Am I connecting the Lan port of my Linksys to my WAN port of the XR?

Also in my router settings on my XR do I then turn off Vlan and do I set my connection type as something else appose to PPPOE or do I just leave as if it was setup to use the internet by itself?

I don't want to over complicate the issues at the moment but I am currently connected to the XR on my other ISP which doesn't require PPPOE or VLan so QOS is working as normal. I have IPV6 disabled however when I check UPNP nothing shows up in the Portmap table. Even if I connect on my Nintendo switch or if I run games from my PC etc. I'm not sure if this is just a cosmetic issue and it is actually working and just not displaying on the table but if there are any potential causes of this issue I would love to resolve it. I usually set up a bunch of port forwards but I was keen to see if this feature worked with port triggering.

[Netduma Fraser]

Yes that is exactly right - LAN of Linksys to WAN of XR. Yes you would disable both PPPoE and VLAN on the XR as the Linksys is now handling those. I believe the UPnP issue is aesthetic, easiest way to tell would be to see if you get an open NAT on the Nintendo by just using UPnP.

[Zac]

Awesome I feel privileged getting such a quick response! Okay so it's all hooked up and working but I haven't set up a DMZ yet got to work out how to do that part next. It would also appear that the QOS is working!  Standby while I set up this DMZ!

As for the Switch I tried turning UPNP on and off again but then I realised I have port triggering enabled still. If it's just cosmetic hopefully patched in next firmware update I can 100% live with that.

[Netduma Fraser]

All you need to do is grab the WAN IP from the XR System Information page and pop that in the DMZ section on the Linksys - you might need to search for how to do this and then you're golden!

[Zac]

Alright you're a legend, I think i'm nearly there. Just read through a couple forums tried some settings and had to hard reset. Would anybody know how to set up a DMZ in OpenWRT possibly with links to a guide i could follow or screenshots? Can't seem to figure it out. Also would I need to disable other functions in openwrt after like firewall or anything?

In relation to grabbing the WAN IP is it likely to change or is that ISP related? Is there a way to change it to a static one or should I just leave it?

[Netduma Fraser]

Apparently there is no specific DMZ but you can do so by port forwarding instead, here is how do do so: https://serverfault.com/questions/441257/how-to-configure-totally-open-dmz-with-openwrt

You could set that WAN IP as static on the Linksys to make sure it doesn't change yes. You can leave all other settings just make sure to disable WiFi on it so you use the XR exclusively.

[Zac]

For the life of me I can't figure this out. I tried the above in the link you posted but it didn't work. Getting NAT type B on my switch now so I know I have double NAT happening. At least it's nearly fixed. If anybody can help would be awesome.

Also once this is all fixed and done how do I buy you a beer Fraser to say thanks? XD

[Netduma Fraser]

8 hours ago, Zac said:

For the life of me I can't figure this out. I tried the above in the link you posted but it didn't work. Getting NAT type B on my switch now so I know I have double NAT happening. At least it's nearly fixed. If anybody can help would be awesome.

Also once this is all fixed and done how do I buy you a beer Fraser to say thanks? XD

Well just to double check that isn't the XR causing it put the switch in the DMZ of the XR in WAN Settings. No beer necessary just stay safe out there!

[Zac]

Well we have good news. I was reading through this https://forum.openwrt.org/t/guide-to-set-up-dmz-via-luci/21616/10 and came across this:

config redirect option target 'DNAT' option src 'wan' option dest 'lan' option proto 'tcp udp' option src_dport '1-65535' option dest_ip '192.168.xxx.xxx' option dest_port '1-65535' option name 'DMZ'. Which supposedly should work for a single host which in my case i assume is the router. 

I wasn't sure on the "Target DNAT option src" so I haven't changed that but the good news is.. it has apparently worked and my devices are getting open NAT status. 

Also I am now getting my UPNP table showing up and it was showing the IP address of both my Switch and my Desktop PC. So i'm not sure if I need port triggering on still or not or if UPNP will now automatically open the ports it needs when requested? I'm a little unsure on exactly how it works. 

So it looks like it's working but i'm not entirely sure everything is set up properly as I am now seemingly getting a little bit more latency. I'm not sure if by running from router to router introduces lag but i ran a tracert to 8.8.8.8 and it is showing:

 1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  4.064 ms  1.755 ms  1.179 ms - Nighthawk IP

 2  192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1)  3.332 ms  3.058 ms  2.119 ms - Linksys IP

 3  10.20.22.53 (10.20.22.53)  3.339 ms  5.014 ms  5.463 ms - Shows as my network gateway IP in my Linksys ?

 4  cbr-trn-nor-crt2-he-0-0-0-20.tpg.com.au (60.240.23.2)  8.742 ms  8.907 ms  8.821 ms - My ISP POI

from memory it normally looks like this:

 1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  4.064 ms  1.755 ms  1.179 ms - Nighthawk IP

 4  cbr-trn-nor-crt2-he-0-0-0-20.tpg.com.au (60.240.23.2)  8.742 ms  8.907 ms  8.821 ms - POI

It feels like 192.168.2.1 is introducing 3ms of latency  or the gateway or both i'm a bit confused at this level. Even in all my oceanic games it's showing 3ms longer. Not sure if this is normal using a double router setup and just a consequence or if i have set something up wrong or missed something?

[Netduma Fraser]

Well done that's great, I would continue just using UPnP on its own. The ms change is minimal, though it may be beneficial to switch ethernet cables between the routers to see if that helps at all. Could also be that you just need to dial in your QoS settings.

[Zac]

i was thinking perhaps it's double nat still but then ports wouldn't be open. I'll dig deeper into it tomorrow perhaps i missed something like are both routers meant to have DHCP/DNS enabled? perhaps I missed something small. i'll keep digging around forums and see what i can find.

One more question. If UPNP is enabled should I still set up port triggering or is it more one or the other? 

Look realistically it's now working in fact it looks like almost all features are working and I seriously owe you for your time and patience. Your a legend Fraser and I really appreciate your help and it's been refreshing the way you have assisted me 

 

 

[Netduma Fraser]

XR should definitely have those enabled, doesn't matter if the Linksys does, wouldn't affect the NAT either way. More one or the other so I would stick with UPnP for now. You're very welcome!

[Zac]

Okay as an update and a conclusion. I couldn't figure out how to set up a proper bridge with WRT. No matter how I tried I was double routing my connection so I am closing the book on that one I don't have the knowledge or expertise to properly configure it. I did however pick up one of my old routers from my ISP provider i was lending to a mate. It's an oldie, doesn't even have a WAN port but I configured it and set it into a bridge mode and wallah. My QOS is working and I tested my UPNP with COD and can confirm that it's cosmetic as with it turned on my ports for it were open NAT but when i turned it off they were moderate. I did however lose the Portmap table again so I assume that's something to do with PPPOE connection?

Moving forwards I really hope the next DumaOS addresses the VLAN issue. I would love to opt into the beta if it's something I can sign up to I would love to provide testing and feedback on my results. If it fixes it, I could finally move back to a single router setup which would be ideal. 

Anyway once again I can't thank you enough for your time and assistance with all the various issues I have had. It really means a lot. 

If you ever want that beer Fraser or if there is anything I can do to show my appreciation via feedback or such please let me know. Your the GOAT! 

[Bert]

The easiest way to solve this if you don't have a separate router is pick up a cheap managed switch from any brand. It just needs to support VLAN tagging.

 

Connect LAN cable from your ISP modem or ONT to port 1. Connect XR500 WAN to port two.

Create VLAN ID2 group in the switch

Set port 1 to tagged (adds the VLAN tag to outgoing traffic)

Set port 2 to untagged (strips the VLAN tag from traffig going to the router)

Set port 2 PVID to 2 (adds tag to traffic coming into the switch)

Set all other ports to excluded

 

In your XR500, set connection to PPPoE, enter PPPoE details, set connection to always on and that will work. No need to add anything to the VLAN menu.

 

It's possible to do this even with a bigger switch if you use that in your household. In that case you would leave all other ports set to VLAN 1.

 

Also you can run a second LAN cable from the XR500 LAN ports to the switch, that gives you access to management and you can use the other ports on the switch for your regular network as per above.

 

If you have a second router around then obviously better to use that for PPPoE and VLAN details as per above.

[Netduma Fraser]

10 hours ago, Zac said:

Okay as an update and a conclusion. I couldn't figure out how to set up a proper bridge with WRT. No matter how I tried I was double routing my connection so I am closing the book on that one I don't have the knowledge or expertise to properly configure it. I did however pick up one of my old routers from my ISP provider i was lending to a mate. It's an oldie, doesn't even have a WAN port but I configured it and set it into a bridge mode and wallah. My QOS is working and I tested my UPNP with COD and can confirm that it's cosmetic as with it turned on my ports for it were open NAT but when i turned it off they were moderate. I did however lose the Portmap table again so I assume that's something to do with PPPOE connection?

Moving forwards I really hope the next DumaOS addresses the VLAN issue. I would love to opt into the beta if it's something I can sign up to I would love to provide testing and feedback on my results. If it fixes it, I could finally move back to a single router setup which would be ideal. 

Anyway once again I can't thank you enough for your time and assistance with all the various issues I have had. It really means a lot. 

If you ever want that beer Fraser or if there is anything I can do to show my appreciation via feedback or such please let me know. Your the GOAT! 

Glad to hear you found an alternate solution, the UPnP table should be fixed as it's just cosmetic so Netgear should be able to resolve that for the next firmware. We will be working on VLAN as well. We'll be making an announcement post regarding the beta and how people can take part soon. You're very welcome, unlikely to ever be in Aus unfortunately haha.

[Zac]

Hi Bert,

Thanks for the advice, I was looking at getting a switch device but I think they run around $50 or so aussie for VLAN tagging. Realistically if I didn't get this other old router working in bridge mode I would definitely opt for it and still might in the future. I'm hoping it's all temporary anyway as hopefully this new firmware fixes the issue and i can get back to my single beautiful RX500. Appreciate the advice though.

Fraser just know in spirit I am buying you a drink of your choice. 

[Zac]

Just wanted to update this thread to say that Duma OS 3.0 beta fixes VLAN Tagging with QOS for those of us in Australia at least. Super happy to have this component finally resolved and I no longer require a pass-through modem. 

Great job!

UPNP is still not working however or rather I think it is working but doesn't display the table of requested ports. Further to this while it seems to work flawlessly with most games I have noted that Guild Wars 2 isn't detected or prioritised traffic even if I manually set it. I think it's more to do with GW2 though.

@Netduma Alex @Netduma Fraser

 

Once again thanks for the help guys this router is performing outstandingly!

[Netduma Fraser]

That's great news! Please let us know about UPnP on the Netgear beta forum. Did you manually set it with ports or the Games Console service?

[Zac]

I'll post on the Beta forums, I wanted to do some more tinkering and testing to consolidate the bugs.

Ever since I have bought the XR500 UPNP is set to on but it never displays a table so I have no idea if it is actually opening up ports or not. I can confirm that sometimes it does, other times it does not. I tested on my Nintendo switch and in COD MW. Sometimes the NAT type is open. Other times it is moderate. Usually if I open/ close or turn of and turn on a couple times it will open the ports. But all in all rather unreliable.

If I have UPNP enabled and I set a manual port will they work in conjunction? Same question for port triggering. OR is it one or the other?

 

[Netduma Fraser]

21 minutes ago, Zac said:

I'll post on the Beta forums, I wanted to do some more tinkering and testing to consolidate the bugs.

Ever since I have bought the XR500 UPNP is set to on but it never displays a table so I have no idea if it is actually opening up ports or not. I can confirm that sometimes it does, other times it does not. I tested on my Nintendo switch and in COD MW. Sometimes the NAT type is open. Other times it is moderate. Usually if I open/ close or turn of and turn on a couple times it will open the ports. But all in all rather unreliable.

If I have UPNP enabled and I set a manual port will they work in conjunction? Same question for port triggering. OR is it one or the other?

Ideally it's best not to use them at the same time but in reality it should be fine to use it that way.

[Dave]

Was having a similar-ish problem - I am with TPG, had to enable VLAN=2, and was getting very flaky comms between devices on my network. Almost returned the router, but then found this post, and after implementing a similar solution (I used my original TP-Link router as my connection to the internet, then connected LAN1 from that router to the WAN on my XR500, etc) I got everything working - so far flawlessly after an hour. Touch wood :) 

Thanks all for your posts this really helped. I'm looking forward to DumaOS 3.0 coming out, which looks like it might fix it altogether. 

[Netduma Fraser]

1 hour ago, Dave said:

Was having a similar-ish problem - I am with TPG, had to enable VLAN=2, and was getting very flaky comms between devices on my network. Almost returned the router, but then found this post, and after implementing a similar solution (I used my original TP-Link router as my connection to the internet, then connected LAN1 from that router to the WAN on my XR500, etc) I got everything working - so far flawlessly after an hour. Touch wood

Thanks all for your posts this really helped. I'm looking forward to DumaOS 3.0 coming out, which looks like it might fix it altogether. 

Hey, welcome to the forum!

Glad to hear that. 3.0 is in open beta now so you can try it here: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-Pro-Gaming-DumaOS-3-0/bd-p/en-home-beta-npg-duma

[Zac]

5 hours ago, Dave said:

Was having a similar-ish problem - I am with TPG, had to enable VLAN=2, and was getting very flaky comms between devices on my network. Almost returned the router, but then found this post, and after implementing a similar solution (I used my original TP-Link router as my connection to the internet, then connected LAN1 from that router to the WAN on my XR500, etc) I got everything working - so far flawlessly after an hour. Touch wood :) 

Thanks all for your posts this really helped. I'm looking forward to DumaOS 3.0 coming out, which looks like it might fix it altogether. 

@Netduma Fraser knows his stuff! certainly helped me get through it. Glad this extremely lengthy post could help somebody XD. TPG owns IInet so they both use Vlan = 2. I have found the open beta to play nicer with VLAN and QOS and it's open beta right now like Fraser mentioned. I would get it and see if it fixes your problems outright.