Bufferbloat all over the place

[Rousey]

Hi, 

 

XR500 landed Friday very excited about the possibilities of this hardware. Set up was very straight forward and began getting the QOS set perfectly like I did on my R1. Using dsl reports on the R1 I had solid 10ms across the board (idle, down and up) just adjusting the buffer bloat before even getting into the geo filter on the R1 I could feel a huge improvement. Anyway i've spent the weekend adjusting the sliders and running test after test and I cant even get remotely close to the results I was getting on the R1. I read on another post that the packet inspection can effect the first sample and give a bad result but when I look at the rest of the samples they are erratic all over the place. The reason I post is purely the fact that Im experiencing the fun times of getting shot before I walk around the corner 

 

So basically im unsure what to do 

[Netduma Fraser]

Hi rousey, 

 

First just a few questions just to assess where you're at.

 

Are you using PPPoE?

Are you using IPv6? 

What is your physical setup?

Are ALL devices connected to the XR500 via WiFi or ethernet?

 

It's not the first sample (test I assume). It's the first few packets of every test that our enterprise level deep packet inspection analyses. This means it can give a slightly lower reading. What are the results you're actually getting (letter wise). 

 

It's not the best test because bufferbloat (lag) only occurs when your network is saturated and with Anti-Bufferbloat enabled your network can never become saturated enough to get any bufferbloat.

 

What are your current QoS settings? We recommend setting Anti-Bufferbloat to 'Always' and then 70% for both download & upload sliders. 

 

What is the average ping you're getting as shown by the Geo-Filter?

[Rousey]

Hi Fraser, 

 

Sorry for the delayed response work calls. My knowledge of networking isn't fantastic so bare with me   

 

Im pretty sure im not on PPPoE as forgive me if im wrong but thats the one that needs credentials to get online?

 

I have Sky broadband with Sky Q so have to use there modem/router but I have got the XR500 in the DMZ. So its set up as SkyQ->XR500->PS4/PC

 

IPv6 is not enabled on the XR500 but It could be on my Sky modem/router should I turn this off would it make a huge impact?    

 

Not all devices are on the XR500 but this goes back to the fact I have to use the SkyQ modem/router as it uses the other boxes to push the video service around the house (im sure you know more about the SkyQ setup than I do) but its only phones that use the SkyQ wifi. I used the wifi from SkyQ before when I had the R1 and never had issues

 

So the best I can get the buffer bloat to is A which I assume is still good but the R1 got A+ 

 

But putting the rating aside once the dslreport had finished you know you can click on the upload or download and it showed you every result? the R1 was solid always consistent for example always a 10 but I cant get a reading that is consistent with the XR500

 

The best setting for me on the anti buffer bloat settings for me on the R1 was 80 down and 85up I would get solid A+ across the board with 10-12ms report the in game ping on the geo filter shows 9/10ms 

 

My current buffer bloat settings is still 80/85 as thats what worked before and the setting is set to always

 

I hope what ive said makes sense apologies if not, I think ive covered everything thank you so much for your help 

 

Hi rousey, 

 

First just a few questions just to assess where you're at.

 

Are you using PPPoE?

Are you using IPv6? 

What is your physical setup?

Are ALL devices connected to the XR500 via WiFi or ethernet?

 

It's not the first sample (test I assume). It's the first few packets of every test that our enterprise level deep packet inspection analyses. This means it can give a slightly lower reading. What are the results you're actually getting (letter wise). 

 

It's not the best test because bufferbloat (lag) only occurs when your network is saturated and with Anti-Bufferbloat enabled your network can never become saturated enough to get any bufferbloat.

 

What are your current QoS settings? We recommend setting Anti-Bufferbloat to 'Always' and then 70% for both download & upload sliders. 

 

What is the average ping you're getting as shown by the Geo-Filter?

[Netduma Fraser]

Hi Fraser, 

 

Sorry for the delayed response work calls. My knowledge of networking isn't fantastic so bare with me 

 

Im pretty sure im not on PPPoE as forgive me if im wrong but thats the one that needs credentials to get online?

 

I have Sky broadband with Sky Q so have to use there modem/router but I have got the XR500 in the DMZ. So its set up as SkyQ->XR500->PS4/PC

 

IPv6 is not enabled on the XR500 but It could be on my Sky modem/router should I turn this off would it make a huge impact?    

 

Not all devices are on the XR500 but this goes back to the fact I have to use the SkyQ modem/router as it uses the other boxes to push the video service around the house (im sure you know more about the SkyQ setup than I do) but its only phones that use the SkyQ wifi. I used the wifi from SkyQ before when I had the R1 and never had issues

 

So the best I can get the buffer bloat to is A which I assume is still good but the R1 got A+ 

 

But putting the rating aside once the dslreport had finished you know you can click on the upload or download and it showed you every result? the R1 was solid always consistent for example always a 10 but I cant get a reading that is consistent with the XR500

 

The best setting for me on the anti buffer bloat settings for me on the R1 was 80 down and 85up I would get solid A+ across the board with 10-12ms report the in game ping on the geo filter shows 9/10ms 

 

My current buffer bloat settings is still 80/85 as thats what worked before and the setting is set to always

 

I hope what ive said makes sense apologies if not, I think ive covered everything thank you so much for your help 

 

Hi rousey,

 

Totally understand!

 

Yes that's right so sounds like you don't have it. 

 

I don't think you have IPv6 so no need, if you do stumble across it in Sky hubs settings I would disable it yes.

 

Is it only the Sky TV boxes connected to it or is there other devices that need to be connected to it? I believe that if you set the XR500's MAC address to the Sky hubs MAC address and set anything@skydsl & password fubar for PPPoE it you might be able to connect everything to the XR500 though I haven't tried this. If you feel comfortable enough I would give it a go.

 

Yeah so you're getting A which is really good. The DPI (deep packet inspection) will be causing you not to get A+ but it doesn't mean it's not working. If you do a PingPlotter test when your network is saturated i.e. by downloading a lot and streaming with QoS off and then another with QoS set to Always and 70% for both upload and download you should see the difference.

[Rousey]

Firstly apologies for the long reply hectic times. I have found the settings for IPV6 on the sky hub so ill go ahead and turn that off. Can that be the cause of bad pings?

 

I believe the way the Sky Q network works is a mesh network which gets the tv to all the Sky Mini's throughout the house. im in no way an expert but I would assume that would mean I cant not use their gear for the tv side of things 

 

Apologies if this is a very stupid question is there a way to disable the deep packet inspection like there was on the R1? just for me to test

Hi rousey,

 

Totally understand!

 

Yes that's right so sounds like you don't have it. 

 

I don't think you have IPv6 so no need, if you do stumble across it in Sky hubs settings I would disable it yes.

 

Is it only the Sky TV boxes connected to it or is there other devices that need to be connected to it? I believe that if you set the XR500's MAC address to the Sky hubs MAC address and set anything@skydsl & password fubar for PPPoE it you might be able to connect everything to the XR500 though I haven't tried this. If you feel comfortable enough I would give it a go.

 

Yeah so you're getting A which is really good. The DPI (deep packet inspection) will be causing you not to get A+ but it doesn't mean it's not working. If you do a PingPlotter test when your network is saturated i.e. by downloading a lot and streaming with QoS off and then another with QoS set to Always and 70% for both upload and download you should see the difference.

[Netduma Admin]

Hi Rousey - yes it could be, as it will prevent Anti-Bufferbloat from working. Try turning it off and see if things improve.

 

There's no option to disable like on the R1 because there is never a need to. That option only existed on the R1 because DPI used so much of the R1's processing power that users with very high bandwidth would not get full speeds. This is not a problem with the XR500 because it has something called 'hardware acceleration', which means DPI and QoS can occur at the highest speeds.

[sharpz44]

Firstly apologies for the long reply hectic times. I have found the settings for IPV6 on the sky hub so ill go ahead and turn that off. Can that be the cause of bad pings?

 

I believe the way the Sky Q network works is a mesh network which gets the tv to all the Sky Mini's throughout the house. im in no way an expert but I would assume that would mean I cant not use their gear for the tv side of things 

 

Apologies if this is a very stupid question is there a way to disable the deep packet inspection like there was on the R1? just for me to test

rousy, I have Sky Q with NO sky q router as I use BT, I currently use Asus GT5300 ( until I get home on Monday then XR500 ) , my main Q and Minis are connected via wifi  independently to the router just like any other device, so not sure how your`s connect but you could try reconnecting them one at a time to the XR500 and see what happens...Might help    

[Rousey]

So ive been trying all weekend using the suggestion thats now pinned with ping plotter while ping plotter is telling me im getting between 10-20ms its shows I have jitter which I thought the anti bufferbloat stops but I have also noticed if I have the sliders set to 100% or 70% there is no difference in the ping plotter result ill carry on testing but it is confusing. 

 

Sharpz thanks for your input ill give it a whirl. Have you managed to set it all up with the XR500 successfully ?

[Netduma Fraser]

Are you saturating your connection when you're doing the tests or are you just doing the tests on their own without doing anything else? If so then nothing will happen as the connection is idle.

 

Are your phones using a lot of bandwidth on the Sky Q during the test?

 

Do you have never selected for Anti-Bufferbloat or have it completely disabled in settings?

 

Have you set your bandwidth speeds as too high or too low compared to what you actually get - not what you pay for - what you get direct to Sky Q wired.

[migh2o]

I bought the xr500 and was very excited to plug in and get it going but it didnt work as I expected. My bufferbloat was bad my ping was fluctuating quite high when testing using ping plotter. I try moving the sliders around and it just wouldn't stop the ping spikes or bufferbloat . I have an arris modem 6183 maybe the two just dont get along very well I dont know. My bufferbloat is so much better when plugging my PC directly to the modem I actually get a A A A+ for the bufferbloat so I know it's not my line quality or my isp. I'm gonna keep on messing with the settings tonight if I cant fix it it's going back to the store. I bought the xr500 to see if dumaos was better than the R1 as far as the bufferbloat and ping spikes they are both about the same for me actually the r1 gave me better results . I also purchase the edgerouter x and that thing is amazing when you turn on sqm it's the only router that has kept my bufferbloat and ping spikes to a minimum. I wreally as hoping the xr500 with the dual core 1.7ghz cpu was as good or better than the edgerouter x but it's wasnt. I think maybe the xr500 hasn't been optimized yet, after all its netduma first time dealing with 2 core cpu and 5ghz wireless band and other specs the r1 never had for now most likely xr500 it's going back to the store.

[Netduma Fraser]

I bought the xr500 and was very excited to plug in and get it going but it didnt work as I expected. My bufferbloat was bad my ping was fluctuating quite high when testing using ping plotter. I try moving the sliders around and it just wouldn't stop the ping spikes or bufferbloat . I have an arris modem 6183 maybe the two just dont get along very well I dont know. My bufferbloat is so much better when plugging my PC directly to the modem I actually get a A A A+ for the bufferbloat so I know it's not my line quality or my isp. I'm gonna keep on messing with the settings tonight if I cant fix it it's going back to the store. I bought the xr500 to see if dumaos was better than the R1 as far as the bufferbloat and ping spikes they are both about the same for me actually the r1 gave me better results . I also purchase the edgerouter x and that thing is amazing when you turn on sqm it's the only router that has kept my bufferbloat and ping spikes to a minimum. I wreally as hoping the xr500 with the dual core 1.7ghz cpu was as good or better than the edgerouter x but it's wasnt. I think maybe the xr500 hasn't been optimized yet, after all its netduma first time dealing with 2 core cpu and 5ghz wireless band and other specs the r1 never had for now most likely xr500 it's going back to the store.

 

I've responded to one of the many posts you made with steps to follow. http://forum.netduma.com/topic/25007-xr500-or-r1/?p=186405