wrathoftank Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 So I'm having a house built and there will be 5 ethernet cables running throughout the house, several of the longest will be around 75ft. What sort of impact would I see with such a long run? Also the standard installation is cat 5e, should I pay extra and switch it to cat 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 75 real feet? Or "you know, about 75 feet or so"? Loss in a line like this is called Attenuation. The Attenuation factor would vary depending on the frequencies tested, compounded by the length of the cable (your needs) and otehr unforeseen issues like bends and micro attenuation due to restrictions placed on the cable during installation. Did a couple of quick google checks looking for the exact loss numbers. I found one that claimed 26.85 at 250feet, but it was a forum post with no link, so dubious at best. Cat6 has a much longer range, but I suspect some of that is based on the density/type of construction and may not be needed for "short" runs like this one*. *Caveat: If it's 75 feet as the crow flies, but you add 8-10 feet on each end for wall height and any difficult routing you need to do because of wall layout and ceiling joist. On the surface, I would say you shouldn't have any issues with attenuation for the run itself. Now if the driving source is lower powered, and you mix in a noise floor issue? Sure, it could be problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathoftank Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 75 real feet? Or "you know, about 75 feet or so"? Loss in a line like this is called Attenuation. The Attenuation factor would vary depending on the frequencies tested, compounded by the length of the cable (your needs) and otehr unforeseen issues like bends and micro attenuation due to restrictions placed on the cable during installation. Did a couple of quick google checks looking for the exact loss numbers. I found one that claimed 26.85 at 250feet, but it was a forum post with no link, so dubious at best. Cat6 has a much longer range, but I suspect some of that is based on the density/type of construction and may not be needed for "short" runs like this one*. *Caveat: If it's 75 feet as the crow flies, but you add 8-10 feet on each end for wall height and any difficult routing you need to do because of wall layout and ceiling joist. On the surface, I would say you shouldn't have any issues with attenuation for the run itself. Now if the driving source is lower powered, and you mix in a noise floor issue? Sure, it could be problematic. So would a modem or a router be a lower power source? I was thinking of putting all the networking components in the basement and keeping everything as clean as possible upstairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretface Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 So would a modem or a router be a lower power source? I was thinking of putting all the networking components in the basement and keeping everything as clean as possible upstairs I have all mine in the basement on a small rack and the whole house wired cat5e and cat 6 . Nothing got anywhere near 75' though. I don't know what impact it would have on gaming but as far as the networking I use at work it has no effect being that long for computers and security equipment. Or CCTV for that matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willphule Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Also the standard installation is cat 5e, should I pay extra and switch it to cat 6? Are they running it in conduit? If so you could always have them pull cat6 down the line when you need it, but if they are just stapling it up it might be worth the extra cost, which shouldn't be much, to have them run cat6 now, odds are high you will want it down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Cat5e and Cat 6 can go up to 295 feet that is just under the 100m recommended but it is better to stay within the realm than on the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
II N3MES1S II Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 You having the house built from scratch so then there would brand new power line ran throughout. Use powerline adapters and dont spend the money on the cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I would run Ethernet personally on a build over pla's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ij4xs Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Building a house for sure put in Ethernet. As far as the cat6 to cat5 argument goes, if you can afford to put in the cat6 go for cat6. It can handle longer runs, has tougher outer plastic with a solid core that makes it more ideal for being pulled through framing. The tighter twisted pairs inside make it more resilient to outside noise as well. Power line adapters are great if you can't put Ethernet in your walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 So would a modem or a router be a lower power source? I was thinking of putting all the networking components in the basement and keeping everything as clean as possible upstairs It would entirely depend on the output threshold of the device but my suspicion is no and you should be fine. Zennon said about you can go out to 295 feet, which would be a large step up from your estimate. Knowing Z from his posts, if he thought you would be running into an issue, he would have addressed it in his response. With in the wall wiring as long as it's fucked up when they put it in you should be good. By that I mean, it wasn't stretched out for days in the corner of one of the rooms with people walking all over it, or it wasn't spiraled like a rats' nest in a pile with a bunch of junk on top of it and it wasn't bent, smashed and forced to go through holes in the joist that were just a wee bit too small. A little research on brand and cost, along with some basic care of installation and I think you should be okay. I personally would rather have the correct application of the transmission medium (cable size for the need) then to put actives like power adapters in your line. Actives like these can add noise to lower frequencies and if you compound them, they can cause ALL SORTS of "cool problems" to confound and frustrate your local service techs....LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy clam Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Just my opinion but if your building from scratch I would have the cat 6 run but there was an article someone posted awhile ago (like a year) about there not really being a big difference between cat 5 and cat 6.I could be wrong on that statement and hopefully Z,Dillinger or someone else will come along and let me know as I am curious myself as to the difference and if it's noticeable and in your case worth the money. But I would go for the best cable while you have the chance,before the drywall,mud and painting are done.and if your getting about a whole house stereo system or something to that effect now is the time to do that also as they can put the speakers in your chosen location and run the wires anywhere and have them be invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Here you go fuzzy. Cat5 1gb speed Frequency up to 100mhz Max cable length 100m Cat6 10gb speed over 33-55m Frequency up to 250mhz Cable length 100m for slower networks For up to 10gb 55m down to 33m in high cross talk conditions Source : Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
II N3MES1S II Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I'm curious as to why no one would use the powerline adapters, it costs less and works perfect. No need to get a certain amount of feet and pay outrageous prices for the cable and have to decide which to get. New electrical in the house means it would be a pretty damn good connection. Think about the money spent!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Because a well manufactured and correctly installed line of appropriate size is a PASSIVE device. You place it, you test it, and you can forget it (outside of a bad picture hanging experience or a random mouse/squirrel using it to keep their teeth in check). Powerline adapters, by their very name, are ACTIVE devices. They aren't self contained and they require an external source for power to run. Active devices fail at a much higher rate than static, Passive devices like the line in question. Now for those that don't know, and perhaps this is getting too technical here, but your home power lines are far from a "clean" source of energy. By adding that source, you can introduce external noise to your line which CAN cause transmission errors in the medium you are wanting to "boost" via use of this device. Those are just some basic electrical facts that all good cabling folks factor in when doing a design. But if you extrapolate that out further, you can run into an issue where the medium chosen (the wire) could be limited in transmission, which is why the powered line adapter helps, but it can mask other issues you will chase your tail trying to uncover. Passive is always better IF you have the time and money to build it proper the first time. This theory is why Fiber to the Home (FTTH) and Fiber to the Curb (FTTC) are such highly efficient models in terms of longevity (time between outages) and throughput (amount of data they can handle). They cost more to put in upfront, but they greatly limit the number of active devices, so their throughput and end to end efficiency are much higher than coaxial and twisted pair networks with lots of Actives. Pay for the right medium up front is ALWAYS going to lead to less problems down the line IF you take the care to do the research and install it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathoftank Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Thanks guys, your input has been very valuable. I think I'll be running Cat 6 just because I know there not running a conduit and I want as little outside noise as possible. Doesn't sound like distance will be an issue for me. I wanted to weigh in a little on powerline adapters as well. I have 4 of them only 100 mbps cable and they are very helpful because I bought my current home used and there was no ethernet, however I have ran into some issues. Such as I can't block any one device from accessing the internet, I found this out when trying to label all my devices using netduma, I would block a device but it wouldn't lose connection, I don't think it works for device prioritization either. Now if I only have 1 device connected using an adapter it works fine, only when I have more than 1 do I run into issues. Also it definitely cuts into my speed and added about 2ms of latency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zennon Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Now for those that don't know, and perhaps this is getting too technical here, but your home power lines are far from a "clean" source of energy. By adding that source, you can introduce external noise to your line which CAN cause transmission errors in the medium you are wanting to "boost" via use of this device. This is why I never suggest them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Cat5e can run 300' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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