nollies1 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Let's see how this goes I am hoping to eventually be able to post and share to others my own setup in the event that it will help those who are still learning the ropes per se. I'm by far no expert but I've been dabbling here and there over the recent years where I know 'enough' about some things but am completely clueless about other things. Eh, no shame on my ego, just letting it out here haha. This particular post, for now, will be dealing with my various trials and tribulations with regard to my ongoing struggles to get the 'best' networking setup possible. PLEASE chime in as you see fit. I'm not too sure how I am going to organize my thoughts below but am thinking for now that I'll keep it very concise and in outline format... and in time I'll add any relevant links etc. for detailed information etc. All that I ask is to please keep as strictly to factual-based knowledge as possible. Keep thoughts and opinions etc. to yourself if you don't mind... e.g., let's try to avoid things like "why are you using 'x', that brand sucks, etc etc... OK --------------------------- Quota's overall list of equipment, devices, etc. in the home Internet: Comcast extreme 105 (cable) Modem: Motorola Surfboard model SB6141 *Typical speed tests (many performed; various times of day/week/etc.) using a Macbook Pro wired to modem: 25 ms ping; 150-180 Mbps down; 8-12 Mbps up Routers: - Asus RT-n66R - Mikrotik Routerboard RB951G-2HnD (aka 'Netduma') LIST OF DEVICES and intended goal for connection (for overall feel of what's needed for me to do): As of right now, what's connected to the Asus - 20-30 random devices (laptops, phones, tablets, a Wii, a PS3, etc etc) - Everything is wireless connected to this router As of right now, what's connected to the Duma - Windows desktop (wired) - PS4, mine (wired) - PS4, not mine (wired) - 4th slot varies (until I finally get around to buying a switch), currently being used by a Macbook Pro to be able to access the router's GUI; often swaps out with the PS3 mentioned above *Nothing is currently connected to the Duma by wireless I have to go for a bit but in a follow up post I will begin to describe all the various setups I've been tinkering with... stay tuned and for now, no need to reply just yet as I haven't finished this let alone gotten to any of my questions lols. -Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nollies1 Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 OK am back for a bit... So, originally I had the following setup Internet - Modem - Duma - Asus The Duma had wireless set to on but only so that I could access the GUI... it only was handling three wired devices (typically the two PS4s and the PS3). The Asus was set to AP mode and was in charge of all the various wireless devices. What I had hoped was to be able to only see 5 items in the Duma's device manager, i.e., the three consoles and JUST the Asus. Since I really hadn't planned on micromanaging the 20-30 wireless devices but rather had only wanted to have said control for the consoles, I found it too cumbersome in this configuration. What I mean is that the Duma saw not just the Asus but also listed all the zumpteen wireless devices, making it quite a challenge (to me at least) to figure out how to work things like device prioritization... with so many devices they were all by default set to like "2" or "3"... and so if I even just slightly tried to increase some bandwidth to my PS4 for example, everything else would just go to "0" or "1"... regardless of what these (relative/ qualitative) values truly mean, I just didn't feel like I had the wiggle room I wanted to be able to increase or decrease bandwidth to any of the consoles. And so, the other day I just tried a new setup (will post this one shortly, and for sure this next post will have many many questions lol) -Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nollies1 Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 Here is my current setup - NOTE that this by any means is not necessarily correct!... I am putting this up here in case anyone who knows what they're doing can help me out, AND in the event that anyone else has a similar idea with regard to using a second router, allocating non-gaming devices to the non-Netduma, etc. Overview at present: Internet - Asus RT-n66R (router mode; only used for the many wireless devices in the home) - Netduma (currently connected to two PS4s, a desktop PC, and this laptop I am using to type at present) Settings (again, not really sure if this is 'optimal' or not) - I will attempt to summarize what I believe are the most relevant settings, but do chime in if I'm missing one, or definitely if I have something wrongly toggled, etc.) Asus Duma is wired (LAN to WAN) No other devices are wired to this router My work laptop is currently the only device on the 2.4 GHz band; all the zillion other devices, including this laptop, is connected wirelessly via the 5 GHz band) QoS: Enabled 'Traditional QoS' selected (not sure how to use Bandwidth Limiter option, nor if it would help) *Entered is the average speedtest values I achieve as per above (170 Mbps down, 12 Mbps up) - Again, note that I am currently not choosing something less, e.g., '90% of my normal bandwidth' for this router. For priorities, I don't really know what I'm doing so I basically flubbed through it. There are really just two priorities of relevance/ that I'm using: "Highest" and "Medium" Highest - Upload Minimum reserved: 95%; Maximum: 100%. Download: Maximum: 100% (There's no minimum setting) Medium - Upload Minimum reserved: 50%; Maximum: 85%. Download: Maximum 80% *Duma was given a static IP and associated with that IP is the "highest" priority... I gave all the wireless stuff "Medium" priority, figuring that people streaming movies, random internet use, etc. will survive with this (though there's no real justification where I came up with said settings for Medium I admit lol) Wireless and LAN tabs - I think are just default/ whatever; let me know what I should be doing if this is not correct In the WAN tab: - Automatic IP WAN is Enabled (duh UPnP is NOT enabled (figured that would be bad if I have it enabled on the Duma) Automatically connect to the DNS server There is no port forwarding/ port triggering I put the Duma into the DMZ WAN NAT Passthrough settings are all Enabled except PPPoE relay (this was how it was; I touched nothing; not sure if that's good or bad or relevant etc) IPv6 NOT enabled NO VPN enabled either *Anything else I should disclose, check for, etc... do let me know, thanks! NetDuma (settings in no particular order; listed stream of consciousness style ) Wifi is NOT enabled NO port forwarding/triggering UPnP is Enabled LAN: Still has it's 192.168.88.1 address (this is where I still need to learn; not sure if this is 'bad' given the Asus recognizes it by the other address/other subnet mentioned above) DHCP Enabled DNS Enabled IPv6 NOT enabled WAN: Everything is disabled except for Auto MTU Additional settings I should probably mention and/or may tweak over time: - Using Reactive mode (though up here it seems some have had much success with Preemptive even with 'fast' internet) - FIVE devices are recognized: The four connected to the Duma and then the Asus router. - For Prioritization: Doesn't seem to matter if the 'five' devices are all set to 20% or if I tweak up or down the two PS4s, etc etc. it's always the same typical experience Any additional info/ inquiries I can come up with, including updates to my setup I will gladly post here. Meanwhile, if anyone by chance knows what they're doing and is willing to offer their two cents then for sure I'd be very appreciative. I'll also post here my 'general gameplay perspective' under these settings in hopes that it helps identify any problem areas and generate future solutions. Thanks, -Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nollies1 Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 I was reading an article on the web which states the following (Re what to do with the 'second' router... in my case this would be the ND) "Once you have that physical connect, all we need to do is tell the new router to point to the first router for Internet access. You can do this by going to WAN setup in the router configuration for the second router. Depending on which router you have, it may not be called that. Basically, you are looking for the section where you specify the Internet IP address. Normally, this is set to Get Automatically from ISP, but in our case we want the new router to point to the first router on our network." - July 25th, 2011 by Aseem Kishore I didn't do it this way and so now I am trying to figure out why one would take this approach rather than what I did (identify the IP that the Asus had given the Duma, then entered that in the Asus' settings under LAN titled 'manually assign an IP around the DHCP list'). I guess in essence I did the opposite(?); rather than the article I referenced, instead I had told the first router to point toward the second using an assigned static IP I gave to the second. Just adding it here in case anyone is like me and may not realize there is more than one 'way' to set this stuff up apparently. No clue if one way is better than another however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted December 21, 2015 Administrators Share Posted December 21, 2015 Good post, I would add that because some devices are connected wirelessly in front of the duma the dumas congestion control will not work correctly as it cannot control everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nollies1 Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yes, thanks for clarifying and good point. By doing it this particular way I do not have any congestion control (of said wireless devices connected to the Asus) via the Duma. On a quick separate note, I've been messing around with the geofilter settings again due to the recent rumors of SBMM sneaking in... and then supposedly removed/ lessened. For some reason during the few days that the game allegedly did have SBMM... I noticed that the up-til-then settings of ~1-2 'clicks' of radius from my home no longer helped all that much. I ended up going back to a setting that was similar to what I found worked best for me with AW... i.e., exclusively filtering based on ping (<30-50 ms, depending on game mode). As of today, aka alleged 'removal' of SBMM (?)... I was getting wrecked all of a sudden. And am now back to the radius-only settings and no longer using ping assist. Interesting. Or... placebo lol. Who knows. As I continue to tweak things here and there I'll offer updates. Hopefully this will help somebody out there, at some point Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Iain Posted December 22, 2015 Administrators Share Posted December 22, 2015 Cheers nollies! From a technical perspective the key is to get low ping lobbies. If you can do that using ping assist exclusively I would suggest that. But of course have fun playing and finding your own settings Happy Christmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex49H Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Here is my current setup - NOTE that this by any means is not necessarily correct!... I am putting this up here in case anyone who knows what they're doing can help me out, AND in the event that anyone else has a similar idea with regard to using a second router, allocating non-gaming devices to the non-Netduma, etc. Overview at present: Internet - Asus RT-n66R (router mode; only used for the many wireless devices in the home) - Netduma (currently connected to two PS4s, a desktop PC, and this laptop I am using to type at present) Settings (again, not really sure if this is 'optimal' or not) - I will attempt to summarize what I believe are the most relevant settings, but do chime in if I'm missing one, or definitely if I have something wrongly toggled, etc.) Asus Duma is wired (LAN to WAN) No other devices are wired to this router My work laptop is currently the only device on the 2.4 GHz band; all the zillion other devices, including this laptop, is connected wirelessly via the 5 GHz band) QoS: Enabled 'Traditional QoS' selected (not sure how to use Bandwidth Limiter option, nor if it would help) *Entered is the average speedtest values I achieve as per above (170 Mbps down, 12 Mbps up) - Again, note that I am currently not choosing something less, e.g., '90% of my normal bandwidth' for this router. For priorities, I don't really know what I'm doing so I basically flubbed through it. There are really just two priorities of relevance/ that I'm using: "Highest" and "Medium" Highest - Upload Minimum reserved: 95%; Maximum: 100%. Download: Maximum: 100% (There's no minimum setting) Medium - Upload Minimum reserved: 50%; Maximum: 85%. Download: Maximum 80% *Duma was given a static IP and associated with that IP is the "highest" priority... I gave all the wireless stuff "Medium" priority, figuring that people streaming movies, random internet use, etc. will survive with this (though there's no real justification where I came up with said settings for Medium I admit lol) Wireless and LAN tabs - I think are just default/ whatever; let me know what I should be doing if this is not correct In the WAN tab: - Automatic IP WAN is Enabled (duh UPnP is NOT enabled (figured that would be bad if I have it enabled on the Duma) Automatically connect to the DNS server There is no port forwarding/ port triggering I put the Duma into the DMZ WAN NAT Passthrough settings are all Enabled except PPPoE relay (this was how it was; I touched nothing; not sure if that's good or bad or relevant etc) IPv6 NOT enabled NO VPN enabled either *Anything else I should disclose, check for, etc... do let me know, thanks! NetDuma (settings in no particular order; listed stream of consciousness style ) Wifi is NOT enabled NO port forwarding/triggering UPnP is Enabled LAN: Still has it's 192.168.88.1 address (this is where I still need to learn; not sure if this is 'bad' given the Asus recognizes it by the other address/other subnet mentioned above) DHCP Enabled DNS Enabled IPv6 NOT enabled WAN: Everything is disabled except for Auto MTU Additional settings I should probably mention and/or may tweak over time: - Using Reactive mode (though up here it seems some have had much success with Preemptive even with 'fast' internet) - FIVE devices are recognized: The four connected to the Duma and then the Asus router. - For Prioritization: Doesn't seem to matter if the 'five' devices are all set to 20% or if I tweak up or down the two PS4s, etc etc. it's always the same typical experience Any additional info/ inquiries I can come up with, including updates to my setup I will gladly post here. Meanwhile, if anyone by chance knows what they're doing and is willing to offer their two cents then for sure I'd be very appreciative. I'll also post here my 'general gameplay perspective' under these settings in hopes that it helps identify any problem areas and generate future solutions. Thanks, -Q So I do not need UPNP enabled on my Netgear router but definitely on the R1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netduma Staff Netduma Crossy Posted December 30, 2015 Netduma Staff Share Posted December 30, 2015 So I do not need UPNP enabled on my Netgear router but definitely on the R1? If Netduma is DMZd then no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex49H Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 If Netduma is DMZd then no Ok because I have it Modem > R1 > Netgear in AP mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netduma Staff Netduma Crossy Posted December 30, 2015 Netduma Staff Share Posted December 30, 2015 Ok because I have it Modem > R1 > Netgear in AP mode. Oh I see. I don't think you would, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nollies1 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 UPDATE: Dec 30 2015 Still as of right now, the 'best' lobbies/ gaming experience I am having thus far when I am playing with more than 3 other people is with the filter completely turned off. The experience ~8 times out of 10 is amazing with the filter on... but ONLY when playing solo, which I should say is either not very 'fun' in itself as I'm a sociable creature lol not to mention command a 'clan' of 60+ members making solo play quite often a rare event lately. *Not complaining up here, merely noting for reference and to continue updating in this post for anyone/me/etc. to chime in now and then. I wanted to simply capture up here my current experience and to seek anyone's input on this, even if it's as simple as 'yeah I have the same experience' or 'no Q you're nuts bc I'm having no issues at all' ***If you are reading this... Whether you are having a similar experience or not... what are your settings? i.e., hey Q, I'm having/ not having the same thing happen to me; my settings are currently x, y, z... etc. Post them if you don't mind, or PM me, I'd like to know! ------------- TLDR... What are my metrics used to make the conclusion that disabled filtering is 'better'?... Good point and I'll address that near the end, below. For now, I'll just try to briefly describe three key sources of said experience: a) Finding lobbies gets pretty tough at times, although this is much dependent on game mode popularity as well - Makes sense however, as filtering would in principle reduce the pool of those who can join a lobby I'm in (functionally that is; this isn't really how the Duma 'works') - Disabling the filter increases chances of loading into a match, but as you'd expect runs risk of hopping into problematic lobbies in terms of ping/connection etc. It's just a risk/benefit ratio, we just suck it up and deal with 150-400 ms ping lobbies until we finally get a good one, stay in that one until enough people come in/ leave such that the lobby goes bad again... and repeat the process. ha MY connection/ experience in-game just does not feel 'correct' or if anything is flat out worse than I'd surmise as if using a 'regular' router - Call me crazy but for some reason when I'm hosting parties I am convinced my experience is biased one way or another, i.e., I'm too often either the 'beast' (say, ~2 out of every 10 games) or notably the guy who's 'one second behind everybody' (8 out of 10, argh lol)... i.e., my matches, either way, just don't seem fair/balanced... kind of like how AW was before I purchased my Duma *please no hate replies... I am well aware of my skill/ abilities and am not trashing the Duma; I am honestly trying to be as objective here as possible* c) The frequency of my mates bit..ing about their experience, e.g., increased OPM factor ('oh my god's per minute'). - Filter on --> someone, often more than a few in a full 6-member party is complaining about their connection... this occurs multi-fold more frequently with the filter on. I do try often to find the best settings for everyone in my parties, e.g., move my home around to the ~center point in terms of where everyone in my party is geographically located, toggled such that only ping is and not location is filtered, etc etc... and nothing seems to be consistently beneficial. The result?... While these are my friends and nobody would seriously attack me per se, there are certain individuals who now regularly enjoy teasing me about this LOL (... 'hey Q, you using that wonky router of yours again so we can constantly lose the whole time, crash out, or never find a lobby' or 'I dunno about him guys, maybe we should go start our own party without him, you know how that router of his gets every time we join up on him...' etc etc... I get it, it's an fps and we as humans often tend to make excuses for why we lost a gunfight, got turned on, etc etc., but I have definitely noticed a change in my teammates' views lately on this Duma experience... I just want to cover all angles and so if it's simply that the game is 'broken' or some tweaks are still in the process with regard to getting the router more 'aligned' with this particular cod, so on and so forth... I'm seeking to determine what the deal is. My filtering when on is just too often seemingly impacting their experiences with the game, and, while I do not intend to sound so prima donna ish... it does stress me out to where it's just not worth it to constantly tinker with the settings, especially when the resulting outcome is often not predictable, or one thing that seems to work may totally not work at all the next day, etc. That's the internet gaming thing for ya... I do wonder if there will ever be one tried and true algorithm per se lol, probably not. Anyways... Thus the current status... Keeping the filter off, while serving no purpose per se, does seem to minimize these experiences. It seems that in a group setting that the typical 'basal levels of the good ol cod-ness wacky net coding connection weirdness' we are all so acquainted with, is tolerable vs. the a-c items up above. Moving forward... I'm thinking what I'll do is actually start documenting on paper this experience so as to have real data and be certain that it's not just in my head 'til next time. -Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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