Netduma R3 freezes up

[PetFoodOnly]

Netduma R3 running firmware 4.0.41

Netduma R3 seems to stop sending packets from Internet Modem on WiFi (IPhone) and Ethernet connection (Gaming Computer). I can be playing a game and the router works perfectly. GeoFilter is doing it's job that part of it is very good and I'm happy with it. Then the Netduma R3 freezes can't access anything. I run a ping to 8.8.8.8 or 8.8.4.4 nothing the R3 responds back with host cannot be reached. I bypass the R3 by placing Ethernet cable directly from Modem to computer and ping to Google works flawlessly. I connect back to R3 and power cycle the R3 it comes online and all is working. Then after a couple of minutes it freezes again. I go to the 'troubleshooting section' of the R3 and factory reset. After factory reset in the initial setup it takes about 5 mins to get the R3 to detect the connection. When it does everything works fine for a couple of days then the freezing starts again.

[Kerry Aldae]

well sadly, the R3 is a massive downgrade. its as if someone bought the company and internally sabotaged it. devs went from useful features to watering down OS. deliberately. for example.

 

Before purchase, helpful patch notes would be:

1. Removed ability to save network changes without router disconnecting each and every time. Can’t save network settings without being disconnected. R3 is deliberately coded to disconnect as previous OS, doesn't. R3 = massive downgrade.

 

2. Removed ability for players to have a custom ping list in ping map. Which means players are limited to only a hand full of preloaded games automatically curated. Can’t ADD a custom list to ping map. A function which once made ping map actually useful to begin with.

 

3. R2 ethernet port is instant. R3 ethernet port is delayed. Indicating zero care or concern for wired users. Imagine anytime that you plug in your ethernet cable,  there's a 10 second delay before you actually have a connection. Whereas with R2 your connection was instant. R3 = massive downgrade.

[Netduma Fraser]

I've added you both to Early Access which I think will help with the issues being faced: https://forum.netduma.com/forum/151-netduma-r3-early-access/

8 hours ago, Kerry Aldae said:

well sadly, the R3 is a massive downgrade. its as if someone bought the company and internally sabotaged it. devs went from useful features to watering down OS. deliberately. 

Before purchase, helpful patch notes would be:

1. Removed ability to save network changes without router disconnecting each and every time. Can’t save network settings without being disconnected. R3 is deliberately coded to disconnect as previous OS, doesn't. R3 = massive downgrade.

2. Removed ability for players to have a custom ping list in ping map. Which means players are limited to only a hand full of preloaded games automatically curated. Can’t ADD a custom list to ping map. A function which once made ping map actually useful to begin with.

3. R2 ethernet port is instant. R3 ethernet port is delayed. Indicating zero care or concern for wired users. Imagine anytime that you plug in your ethernet cable,  there's a 10 second delay before you actually have a connection. Whereas with R2 your connection was instant. R3 = massive downgrade.

1. That's not a bug I've encountered/seen reported, if you really think we would deliberately make that happen that would cause more work and frustration for everyone then I don't know what to tell you. It's likely the Early Access version will help.
2. That feature you can add server IPs yes, however it's likely if you're adding other game IP addresses then they would time out when you ping them.
3. Should be improved in the new one

[Kerry Aldae]

R3 OS: you cannot add a custom list in ping map. maybe an oversight somehow.

R2 OS: you can add custom list as screenshot illustrates.

nothing i said was a bug. proof? R2 saves any network setting adjustment that user submits, without device rebooting connection each time. R3 reboots connection each time upon saving/updating any submitted network setting adjustment, resulting in nuisance disconnects. whereas R2 does the same task, yet rarely ever disconnecting upon user submitted network setting adjustments.

.

[Netduma Fraser]

I understood that, that's what I mentioned in 2.

That would be a bug, we wouldn't intentionally make it so it would do that and I've not seen anyone report it, try the Early Access version and I'm sure you'll be happier with it.

[Nate808]

Im getting same problem can u send me early invite? my connection wont connect instantly to internet it takes awhile when i turn on pc or console. also i cant play any games as i lag out on every match with different games..

[Kerry Aldae]

On 5/12/2024 at 1:06 PM, Netduma Fraser said:

I understood that, that's what I mentioned in 2.

 

i don't see how you understood. you cannot add custom ping list in R3. as i originally stated. R2, you can add custom ping list as image illustrates.

On 5/12/2024 at 1:06 PM, Netduma Fraser said:

That would be a bug

what would be a bug? inability to add custom list in R3?  surely i can't be the first to have noticed such. if you're suggesting its a bug.

ALSO R3 losing connection anytime users saves a different network setting is a catastrophic downgrade. Imagine noticing ping spike, so you adjust network settings, only to be disconnected then suspended from ow all because R3 was deliberately coded to disrupt connection upon any setting adjustment. Whereas R2 rarely ever disconnects whenever adjusting network settings. R2's resiliency at keeping users connected is impeccable compared to R3.

[Netduma Alex]

Hi @Kerry Aldae

16 hours ago, Kerry Aldae said:

i don't see how you understood. you cannot add custom ping list in R3. as i originally stated. R2, you can add custom ping list as image illustrates.

You're right, we actually removed the custom list feature in DumaOS 4 because very few people were using it. Is this a feature you'd like to see return?

 

16 hours ago, Kerry Aldae said:

ALSO R3 losing connection anytime users saves a different network setting is a catastrophic downgrade. Imagine noticing ping spike, so you adjust network settings, only to be disconnected then suspended from ow all because R3 was deliberately coded to disrupt connection upon any setting adjustment.

The disconnection and reconnection on settings change helps to avoid any issues with existing connections hanging around. I think what's needed here is a clearer warning to users that the change will disrupt network activity.

[Netduma Alex]

On 5/13/2024 at 9:43 AM, Nate808 said:

Im getting same problem can u send me early invite? my connection wont connect instantly to internet it takes awhile when i turn on pc or console. also i cant play any games as i lag out on every match with different games..

I've added you to Early Access

You can download here

[Kerry Aldae]

On 5/14/2024 at 10:46 AM, Netduma Alex said:

You're right, we actually removed the custom list feature in DumaOS 4 because very few people were using it. Is this a feature you'd like to see return?

 

yes. its the primary reason i'd bought an R3.

 

On 5/14/2024 at 10:46 AM, Netduma Alex said:

The disconnection and reconnection on settings change helps to avoid any issues with existing connections hanging around. I think what's needed here is a clearer warning to users that the change will disrupt network activity.

negative. connection disruption is the wrong direction. for a gaming router. imagine streaming or gaming, you make a minor subnet adjustment, then abruptly disconnected, whereas previous R2 OS, rarely ever disconnected, upon simple tweaks. the ideal and proper direction to resolve this, is providing users the option to select whether or not they want their connection disrupting over simple network tweaks.  needless disconnections make R3 unusable/unsuitable. in 2024 it is beyond unacceptable to stream or game and get disconnected over simple router tweaks. an astronomical oversight. imo. the R2 configuration with regard to handling tweaks without disconnecting user is the way forward. or providing R3 users the option of R2 resiliency with little to no disruption. please add command: connection reset upon user changes: false. (as in on/off option)

 

[Zippy]

3 hours ago, Kerry Aldae said:

yes. its the primary reason i'd bought an R3.

 

negative. connection disruption is the wrong direction. for a gaming router. imagine streaming or gaming, you make a minor subnet adjustment, then abruptly disconnected, whereas previous R2 OS, rarely ever disconnected, upon simple tweaks. the ideal and proper direction to resolve this, is providing users the option to select whether or not they want their connection disrupting over simple network tweaks.  needless disconnections make R3 unusable/unsuitable. in 2024 it is beyond unacceptable to stream or game and get disconnected over simple router tweaks. an astronomical oversight. imo. the R2 configuration with regard to handling tweaks without disconnecting user is the way forward. or providing R3 users the option of R2 resiliency with little to no disruption. please add command: connection reset upon user changes: false. (as in on/off option)

 

What kind/type of tweaks are you making that causes these disconnects? Like give the examples of what you mean..

Thanks!

Zippy.

[Netduma Fraser]

12 hours ago, Kerry Aldae said:

yes. its the primary reason i'd bought an R3.

 

negative. connection disruption is the wrong direction. for a gaming router. imagine streaming or gaming, you make a minor subnet adjustment, then abruptly disconnected, whereas previous R2 OS, rarely ever disconnected, upon simple tweaks. the ideal and proper direction to resolve this, is providing users the option to select whether or not they want their connection disrupting over simple network tweaks.  needless disconnections make R3 unusable/unsuitable. in 2024 it is beyond unacceptable to stream or game and get disconnected over simple router tweaks. an astronomical oversight. imo. the R2 configuration with regard to handling tweaks without disconnecting user is the way forward. or providing R3 users the option of R2 resiliency with little to no disruption. please add command: connection reset upon user changes: false. (as in on/off option)

 

If you're adding IP addresses manually to Ping Heatmap and they are game servers then the pings would likely not work, essentially rendering the function useless. If there are other IP addresses you are using that don't time out then that is fair enough and I can see why it would be annoying that it is no longer available.

If you're making a subnet change during the game (there is no reason to do this, it offers no benefit to gaming) then the expected behavior would be for it to disconnect/reconnect. In fact any settings in the actual settings pages if you're changing them then you could disconnect and so wouldn't advise doing it when gaming. 

I think we've actually discussed this in emails didn't we and you returned the R3 due to this.

[Kerry Aldae]

On 5/17/2024 at 1:41 AM, Zippy said:

What kind/type of tweaks are you making that causes these disconnects? Like give the examples of what you mean..

 

simple subnet tweaks. simple mtu tweaks. which the R2 handled fine without rarely ever disconnecting. R3 disconnects upon simple tweaks/changes bc it was deliberately coded to do so. making it unsuitable in a streaming/gaming environment. hopefully Alex will consider my passionate feedback and remove forced needless R3 disconnects.

[Kerry Aldae]

16 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

If you're making a subnet change during the game (there is no reason to do this, it offers no benefit to gaming)

invalid speculation. on the fly subnet changes are essential. the default automatically assigned subnet is often not the correct subnet to utilize HALF the time. i'm a network engineer. so simply ask one from your local area. or invite one to forum.  if the wrong subnet is assigned, then manual adjustments is the remedy for which such manual input option exist. manual tweaks is standard in all routers. the subnet which is auto assigned to a network router is done so randomly. not often properly. sometimes the auto assigned subnet is correct. sometimes its incorrect.

16 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

I think we've actually discussed this in emails didn't we and you returned the R3 due to this.

yes. due to the automatic disruptive needless connection resets, that occur due to simple subnet and mtu tweaks + delayed ethernet port + custom ping list removed. my point about subnet has never been refuted. 

[Netduma Fraser]

1 hour ago, Kerry Aldae said:

invalid speculation. on the fly subnet changes are essential. the default automatically assigned subnet is often not the correct subnet to utilize HALF the time. i'm a network engineer. so simply ask one from your local area. or invite one to forum.  if the wrong subnet is assigned, then manual adjustments is the remedy for which such manual input option exist. manual tweaks is standard in all routers. the subnet which is auto assigned to a network router is done so randomly. not often properly. sometimes the auto assigned subnet is correct. sometimes its incorrect.

yes. due to the automatic disruptive needless connection resets, that occur due to simple subnet and mtu tweaks + delayed ethernet port + custom ping list removed. my point about subnet has never been refuted. 

It's probably best to agree to disagree because we'll never agree on the subnet aspect and as I did mention in emails before it's not something the team will change but we'll take your point about the custom list and see if we can add that back in.

[Kerry Aldae]

 

22 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

it's not something the team will change

what do you mean by this exactly? since the only recommended change, regarding the subnet resetting entire routers connection, was a reversion back to how the previous OS did not disrupt connections upon subnet tweaks. simply code it to not hard reset connection. i don't think reverting, or an option to revert, is a request for anything special. forced hard connection resets aren't practical. as far as you saying what the team will and won't do. well they haven't spoken with me about it. what i said is provable. and i offered to prove it. which would've been brief. but get it. you prefer that it not be true. it's imprudent to assume that anyone knows all. forum is for feedback. i provide feedback and its dismissed. fascinating.

[Netduma Fraser]

The team will not be looking into the subnet change disconnecting you as they do not believe this is an issue, changing network settings such as this would cause devices to reconnect and changing the subnet wouldn't have an impact on gaming. Over the years I've seen many people change settings that make absolutely no sense and they say it gives them a better experience and that's great, whatever works for them but we can't investigate every single one of those instances. 

I respect that it works for you and you want to bring that to our attention, I do appreciate it, however it won't be looked into further. Just to give you an idea, I've been doing this for 10 years and I've never had anyone report this across any of the DumaOS platforms, if it had wide implications people will have found it by now I can assure you.

[Kerry Aldae]

On 5/19/2024 at 5:40 AM, Netduma Fraser said:

changing network settings such as this would cause devices to reconnect

precisely why R3 is unfit for gaming. R2 doesn't usually disconnect during MTU or subnet changes. For you, (not team as i've never spoken with them), to think that default subnet is always the correct subnet, proves that you are new to networking. or have a one dimensional understanding of networking.

On 5/19/2024 at 5:40 AM, Netduma Fraser said:

subnet change disconnecting you as they do not believe this is an issue

disconnects are always an issue for anyone. hence the return.

 

On 5/19/2024 at 5:40 AM, Netduma Fraser said:

Over the years I've seen many people change settings that make absolutely no sense and they say it gives them a better experience and that's great, whatever works for them but we can't investigate every single one of those instances. 

now, i understand your impulsive dismissiveness. i gave you a step by step how to prove it. or you could've invited me to a private lobby and discord. it would've taken mere minutes. but clearly you weren't interested in making the product better, bc its easier for you to assume that you are always correct when you're rarely ever. which is why liam was always a zillion times more insightful than you to be honest.

On 5/19/2024 at 5:40 AM, Netduma Fraser said:

if it had wide implications people will have found it by now I can assure you.

subnet and MTU are advance settings. advance setting are often rarely tweaked by anyone outside of advance users. so your dismissiveness holds no validity. to summarize your dismissiveness: we're too understaff to look into anything that is simply easier to dismiss. its funny how your dismissiveness is endless, YET email logs between myself and liam would LIKELY PROVE that my feed back on the matter LEAD TO devs coding R3 TO disconnect upon setting changes. which makes your dismissiveness even more so disingenuous. 

[Netduma Fraser]

Thanks for the feedback, you've returned the router and so it's not longer something we need to keep discussing, you have your position and I've given you our position on it. I'm not going to keep arguing this with you especially with personal comments involved.