XR500 setup with Virgin Media Hub 3.0

[endo2406]

Hi all,

Looking for help/advice on setting up my XR500 that I just got. My ISP is Virgin Media and my package is 500mb download. I have the Hub 3.0 and have switched it to modem mode. I've had a look around to see what kind of settings with a similar setup to me I should have, and I noticed past users mentioning to set the WAN IP from the XR500 to the DMZ setting in the VM Hub settings. Not sure if I am doing it wrong but I don't have the flexibility in that setting area to input my own custom ip, as the only option I have is to add the last two digits to the end of a hardcoded IP (greyed out).

Anyway, from initial setup I factory reset the XR500 upon receiving (refurbished) and installed the latest firmware. Here is some results:

BEFORE with isp as router:

https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=0d6a49bd-3034-4daa-8a08-330d45d9232b

https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=52192f90-ac4c-4210-bae4-709f854cc431

AFTER with XR500 (QoS and goodput disabled):

https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=23d78412-14e4-4b8e-baa8-544233c59f34

https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=1493c86d-35be-4840-840a-3ced0fd7a868

AFTER with XR500 (QoS - 70% 70% and goodput enabled):

https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=4f6d488b-d019-4b8e-9090-f4c77acfffed

Now I noticed the before with ISP and after enabling QoS with xr500 they seemed to give similar results. I am a total noob here, so not sure if I am suppose to enable QoS? It just seems that I get worse results based off that? Just to clarify, my setup is two gaming pcs (one mostly wireless and one always wired) so not sure what to set as bandwidth allocation either.

Any suggestions/advice is appreciated, many thanks!

[Netduma Fraser]

Hey, welcome to the forum!

That's correct on the DMZ, if you have a look at the IP on the System Information page the IP will be the same other than the last digits, that's what you put in.

Yes we generally recommend to use QoS, have a look at https://support.netduma.com/en/support/solutions/folders/16000090646 and that should help you get setup. QoS may need tweaking from the standard 70% to get better results.

[endo2406]

Hi Fraser!

Thanks for the prompt reply! I initially got confused with the DMZ setting, as the XR500 shows the WAN ip starting with 82 as apposed to 192 in the ISP setting. I've added the last two digits into the DMZ setting and the WAN ip changed now completely starting with 192. I assume that's right? Probably a stupid question, but do I switch the ISP router back to modem mode? Or do I just keep it in router mode an the DMZ will just work its thing like this? I've also turned off wifi 2.4 and 5ghz in the ISP router as I assume the XR500 will just manage that.

 

I will have a look at the link you send thanks, if I have any other questions, I will fire them over this way! Thanks.

[Netduma Fraser]

You'll need to change the VM Hub back to router mode, then check the System Information page for the WAN IP which will then be in the 192 range, then you can enter the last digits in the DMZ on the Hub. Then yes you can disable the WiFi on the hub if you wish and just use the XR WiFi, that is the best setup.

[endo2406]

Hi, I have tested different slider settings and speed settings, just can't seem to get the latency down  Not sure what I could be doing wrong, any suggestions?

[Netduma Fraser]

Are you just measuring using the test or are you going off your experience in game? Bufferbloat cannot occur when Congestion Control is active as it prevents the connection being saturated which is when bufferbloat occurs. 

[endo2406]

Hi Fraser!

I am just testing with waveform's bufferbloat tool, and recently the connection benchmark one in DumaOS. Latency for download is usually around +20ms. Haven't really tried in game yet! I just assumed I could use these test tools to get it right then just play away, guess I am wrong? 

[Netduma Fraser]

37 minutes ago, endo2406 said:

Hi Fraser!

I am just testing with waveform's bufferbloat tool, and recently the connection benchmark one in DumaOS. Latency for download is usually around +20ms. Haven't really tried in game yet! I just assumed I could use these test tools to get it right then just play away, guess I am wrong? 

You can absolutely do that, I would just say don't get too bogged down trying to get those values down and get gaming and see how it feels!

If you really want to get into it:
Saturate your connection with downloads, streams etc while following this guide https://support.netduma.com/en/support/solutions/articles/16000074717-how-to-test-your-internet-ping It's best to start with a high value for Congestion Control (set to Always), say 95% then check the results, decrease by 10%, test, decrease by 10% etc, until you get to a value that is pretty good and then try 5% either side of that value to see if it can be improved. It's important to note that Download & Upload on Congestion Control don't have to be the same value and that you may have a better experience with differing values.

[endo2406]

Ah that's great to know thank you Fraser! Started to get down a rabbit hole with the values 😂 I will have a look at the guide you linked and your advice, thanks for all your help!

[endo2406]

Hi Fraser,

I've been looking into the guide you linked, ran a few pings and found my latency spikes and also certain tests gave me packet loss. In regards to the ones attached below where its mainly/just latency spikes, is this something I should contact my ISP about?

 

google.co.uk

 

bbc.co.uk

[Netduma Fraser]

Under what circumstances were these tests done? Were they with nothing using the internet or normal usage, were you saturating and using QoS? 

[endo2406]

Some tests where with nothing else using the internet (no browser open or apps, other devices not using either), others were with just browser open, and a couple of things in the background running like slack and discord (discord just running, not connected to a server) also no other devices again using the net. Definitely no saturating and wasn't using QoS because I was using the ISP router.

Switched to nighthawk using DMZ and attached a couple of tests with QoS disabled:

with slack, discord (only open), an browser

Nothing running

 

I've kept QoS disabled as I thought I needed to test how it was before enabling that and also using the xr500, wasn't sure at this point because of seeing the latency spikes / packet loss if this is something I need to speak to my ISP about (like the guide mentions) and if this was going to be of any problem trying to get a quality connection. Sorry if I have misunderstood!

[endo2406]

Did a couple of quick runs with QoS enabled at 95% and "Always" as you mentioned to start with:

slack and browser running:

nothing else running:

 

Just wondering since its already set at 95% high, if these latency spikes are a concern since the guide mentions to look at ISP? Or do I just keep tinkering with the values to find something better as you also mentioned?

[Netduma Fraser]

So that packet loss you're seeing at the top you can ignore, only if you see red bars on the bottom graph is when you should be concerned by packet loss.

The ping itself that you're getting isn't too spiky really so it's not bad, could be better of course but it's unlikely the ISP would do anything about it as its not severe enough.

[endo2406]

Seemed to find a temp sweet spot on and off downloading a game via steam, and playing with sliders and bandwidth allocation to see the line stay stable. However, I noticed that it would creep back up an go bad again. I paused downloads and ran speed tests with QoS disabled. Noticed I was getting different speeds so adjusted the QoS settings in accordance by lowering the sliders more. This would make the latency stable again but I noticed I had to repeat this. With the speed tests I noticed that in dumaOS I was hitting 248/330 but I could go straight to speedtest.net and hit around 540 speeds (I am on a 500mb package). So not sure which one to go off? Should I be relying on the dumaOS one and set it to the lowest speed I am getting in QoS? Right now my sliders are at 23% and 39%.

Thanks!

[Netduma Fraser]

Go off the ones on speedtest.net if they're accurate and more stable, once entered you can find what works for those speeds and then you won't need to adjust it again

[endo2406]

Hi Fraser,

 

I took a break from this as I just couldn't work it out. Come back again and still having issues getting a stable result. I think I have chased myself down a rabbit hole with completely misunderstanding how it's suppose to work and I am probably doing something stupid. As the last settings I tried with pingplotter running was 20mb download set and that was stable while watching a youtube video and downloading a game. This just doesn't sound right for a 500mb connection? 20mb just seems so little to be setting comparing it with the 70% recommended setting to begin with from the guide. That's why I think I am doing something stupid and I am completely misunderstanding it's use.

 

Anyway, I read the guide you sent me for QoS again, and it said at the bottom to contact here if I need help with dialing in the settings I should use, I assume that's just following the conversation here? Thanks!

[Netduma Fraser]

Could you provide a screenshot of your QoS page please and we can go from there

[endo2406]

Hi Fraser,

thanks for getting back. I have attached my settings. Below you can see a test I did now where I went from 70% / 70% (368mb / 25mb) and decremented both sliders 10%, you can see it gets stable when I am on 5% / 5% (24mb / 1.8mb). I was downloading a game, watching a youtube video, and listening to spotify to saturate my connection. My pc is the only current active device on the network (other pc is turned off). The devices on my network is two gaming pcs (sharing same bandwidth allocation and most), a PS4 pro, tablet/phone devices, macbook and two tvs.

I did a speed test before and changed the speed settings to what I got from speetest.net (527 / 36). Thanks for your help, let me know if you need any other information!

 

[Netduma Fraser]

Thanks for that, before you arrived at these settings being the best, had you tried at 5% intervals before that all the way up to 95%?

[endo2406]

I have tried sliders both up and down (up to 95% yes), I noticed that it was just worse if I increased by those intervals, so figured it would lower the the ping when I decreased by those intervals. If it helps, I have attached the data file for pingplotter so can see increases by 5% from the above settings used all the way to 95%. Below is a screenshot of the graph too:

 

bbc.co.uk.pp2

[Netduma Fraser]

Interesting, since you switched the VM back to router mode to set the DMZ are any devices now bypassing the XR and using the VM hub directly at all?

[endo2406]

No, all devices are going through the XR500, I have turned off all wireless in my virgin media router. Would you like a screenshot of my device map? Also to clarify, I am in modem mode for the router currently.

[Netduma Fraser]

When did you switch back to modem mode? As I found modem mode to be a little unstable which could be contributing to the issue, that's alright no need!

[endo2406]

My bad, I forgot to mention that when picking it back up again. I changed it to modem mode when I was playing around where I gave up for a while, then just forgot I left it in that mode when coming back here. I will switch it back now and re-run the tests (from 95% going down in 5% intervals) and get back to you. Thanks!