Xbox Buffer Bloat Testing

[KindaBusted]

You can now test Buffer Bloat directly on Xbox. This has dramatically improved my game play experience. I Don't have a playstation 5 so let me know if the test works there. I'm also interested in Before & After results.

 

[TG3NOC1D3]

I had a Unified Dream Machine Pro and they released a firmware that causes me to drop literally every other packet. Now I switched over to my R2 and use my ISP's Eero Pro 6 and Eero 6 Routers in AP mode. One in the back of house, one in front, they work beautifully and give me plenty of wi-fi coverage and the R2 handles my fiber line very well for the upstream bloat i needed to correct. I'll never us a UDM or Ubiquiti device ever again.

[KindaBusted]

Wanted a camera setup with local storage. So far everything has been great. UMD + R2 for Geofilering. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Newfie]

19 hours ago, TG3NOC1D3 said:

I had a Unified Dream Machine Pro and they released a firmware that causes me to drop literally every other packet. Now I switched over to my R2 and use my ISP's Eero Pro 6 and Eero 6 Routers in AP mode. One in the back of house, one in front, they work beautifully and give me plenty of wi-fi coverage and the R2 handles my fiber line very well for the upstream bloat i needed to correct. I'll never us a UDM or Ubiquiti device ever again.

They are more complex, not for most as it’s easy to mess them up if you don’t understand the settings. Nowadays it’s very stable where they were once very messy.

[TG3NOC1D3]

41 minutes ago, Newfie said:

They are more complex, not for most as it’s easy to mess them up if you don’t understand the settings. Nowadays it’s very stable where they were once very messy.

I understand the settings just fine, even support is looking into the issue to see what caused it. I removed the UDM Pro from my network stack and running from ONT > PC directly, I experienced zero packet loss and stable ping. Not very impressed either with the fact that they still haven't released adblocking to the UDM Pro or cake qos like they said they would by now. I work as a network engineer and wanted to start using them in our environment due to their cost being way cheaper than Cisco. Now that I've seen numerous people having issues with their more recent firmwares, I'll hold off for now. 

[KindaBusted]

For network wide Ad & Tracker blocking I suggest NextDNS. It has a crazy number of options built in.

Pretty much every Block List is there to use. Been using it for a couple years now and & very happy with it.

Xbox users be aware that the built in Native Tracking Protection for "Windows" can block some needed services.

Two options are to not use the list or add the needed services to the allowed list. 

I'll make a video going over everything one day soon. 

[Newfie]

6 hours ago, TG3NOC1D3 said:

I understand the settings just fine, even support is looking into the issue to see what caused it. I removed the UDM Pro from my network stack and running from ONT > PC directly, I experienced zero packet loss and stable ping. Not very impressed either with the fact that they still haven't released adblocking to the UDM Pro or cake qos like they said they would by now. I work as a network engineer and wanted to start using them in our environment due to their cost being way cheaper than Cisco. Now that I've seen numerous people having issues with their more recent firmwares, I'll hold off for now. 

What AP were you using out of interest?

what versions are you on, controller and network?

 

which interface did you set the UDM up on?

FQ CoDel is fine, the CPU and non set values work just fine and no different to any other QoS as the chipset has plenty of grunt to handle that and threat control at over 3Gbs. Cake uses less resources. There’s been very little problems as it moves to 3.0, it’s those that had installed packages that have issues as it’s not built on containers. Other issues are not having the right controller firmware before updating. At no point did they say Cake was being added but if there’s a link I’ll be interested in it.

if you knew your stuff you could have added Cake but the kernel would be a problem with Unifis updates. There is sources out there under GitHub but since it offers little and as it will not play ball you would be stuck on old firmware. Some of their older routers had it but only due to being more friendly on resources due to hardware specs.

adblocking on the UDMSE and UDR is out, very basic feature, that’s due when the pro and base get 3.0 which is not long. It’s not a killer feature and more basic than Netdumas version.
 

if you have a link to your support thread I’ll be interested in seeing what’s going on.cheers.

Cisco have had issues with firmwares, no different apart from better support and you have licences, there’s plenty more out there like Juniper that are as good but are thousands more to deploy.

did you roll back the firmware and retry and if so how did you do that?

 

[TG3NOC1D3]

3 hours ago, Newfie said:

What AP were you using out of interest?

what versions are you on, controller and network?

 

which interface did you set the UDM up on?

FQ CoDel is fine, the CPU and non set values work just fine and no different to any other QoS as the chipset has plenty of grunt to handle that and threat control at over 3Gbs. Cake uses less resources. There’s been very little problems as it moves to 3.0, it’s those that had installed packages that have issues as it’s not built on containers. Other issues are not having the right controller firmware before updating. At no point did they say Cake was being added but if there’s a link I’ll be interested in it.

if you knew your stuff you could have added Cake but the kernel would be a problem with Unifis updates. There is sources out there under GitHub but since it offers little and as it will not play ball you would be stuck on old firmware. Some of their older routers had it but only due to being more friendly on resources due to hardware specs.

adblocking on the UDMSE and UDR is out, very basic feature, that’s due when the pro and base get 3.0 which is not long. It’s not a killer feature and more basic than Netdumas version.
 

if you have a link to your support thread I’ll be interested in seeing what’s going on.cheers.

Cisco have had issues with firmwares, no different apart from better support and you have licences, there’s plenty more out there like Juniper that are as good but are thousands more to deploy.

did you roll back the firmware and retry and if so how did you do that?

 

I have 2 FlexHD units, Wi-Fi was pretty good but it wasn't Wi-Fi 6 and it left some coverage to be desired.

 

I'm very aware that FQ Codel is fine, UI-Glenn on the forums had stated that they were looking into using Cake QOS with POC like what is popularly used in OpenWRT. That is where my source came from, however, I do not have the time to go digging for it as it was a response to someone sometime mid last year. Not really a big deal but it would be nice to have. Considering with the right device, you can pull closer to gigabit with cake versus when i set QOS on the UDM Pro, I got around mid 700 Mbps. 

I never bothered adding on packages or Cake due to the issues and them not being support and a "Use at your own risk" kind of deal. Me knowing "my stuff" has no bearing here, I've seen a lot of people suffer due to problematic 3rd party apps.

Adblocking would be nice to check out if they advance it but the Netduma R2 has a pretty robust adblock system. My issue still stands that they promised these features to us a long while back and dropped a new router/IPS/Firewall instead of working on the UDM Pro. That is where a ton of people, myself included because I won't lie here, got pretty friggin salty over feeling like a second though.

I was told by support that on Unifi OS 2.x and higher you can't roll back, so I haven't bothered digging into it.

 

This is my issue though is that a lot of Ubiquiti users get bent out of shape anytime someone criticizes their product or support. Numerous people have had issues with them and their giant breach due to shit management sent a huge red flag up the pole for a lot of people. You immediately felt the need to call my intelligence of said product into question, which was bush league move at best imo. If you didn't mean offense, you have a hell of a way of showing it.

 

At the end of the day, my current setup works great and I have been very civil with Ubiquiti's support team in getting the issue resolved so I can hopefully use my expensive paper weight as an actual router again.

[Newfie]

6 hours ago, TG3NOC1D3 said:

I have 2 FlexHD units, Wi-Fi was pretty good but it wasn't Wi-Fi 6 and it left some coverage to be desired.

 

I'm very aware that FQ Codel is fine, UI-Glenn on the forums had stated that they were looking into using Cake QOS with POC like what is popularly used in OpenWRT. That is where my source came from, however, I do not have the time to go digging for it as it was a response to someone sometime mid last year. Not really a big deal but it would be nice to have. Considering with the right device, you can pull closer to gigabit with cake versus when i set QOS on the UDM Pro, I got around mid 700 Mbps. 

I never bothered adding on packages or Cake due to the issues and them not being support and a "Use at your own risk" kind of deal. Me knowing "my stuff" has no bearing here, I've seen a lot of people suffer due to problematic 3rd party apps.

Adblocking would be nice to check out if they advance it but the Netduma R2 has a pretty robust adblock system. My issue still stands that they promised these features to us a long while back and dropped a new router/IPS/Firewall instead of working on the UDM Pro. That is where a ton of people, myself included because I won't lie here, got pretty friggin salty over feeling like a second though.

I was told by support that on Unifi OS 2.x and higher you can't roll back, so I haven't bothered digging into it.

 

This is my issue though is that a lot of Ubiquiti users get bent out of shape anytime someone criticizes their product or support. Numerous people have had issues with them and their giant breach due to shit management sent a huge red flag up the pole for a lot of people. You immediately felt the need to call my intelligence of said product into question, which was bush league move at best imo. If you didn't mean offense, you have a hell of a way of showing it.

 

At the end of the day, my current setup works great and I have been very civil with Ubiquiti's support team in getting the issue resolved so I can hopefully use my expensive paper weight as an actual router again.

All manufactures have weak points, it’s how it is as no one is perfect and yes you can’t roll back and the latest firmware is that which is more up to date and bring the whole line of their routers into one line for updates which is the correct way to go.

unfortunately people are impatient, and they want everything now, and there’s the problem and it’s the same here too. 

Their latest release is fine, you can’t roll back and support for third party stuff is not what it was and that upset users but that’s how it is. It’s more complex as they want code from any line used in all lines so upgrading is from one unit to another can be handled which is not something most routers support and I’m not sure if they will win there.

sadly their breach is a concern to all companies where honesty and confidentiality exist. We have no right in knowing what goes on internally which many wanted to know.
I say it as I see it, that’s how I am and I look at both points of view. there is no offence intended but I say it as I see it.
Their latest update is out, are you not on it. That went through a lot of testing, lots of issues were seen and solved which is what others do when beta testing. It was completed very quickly and there were several releases into the new line. In the early days to update you had to SSH in till they got to a set firmware, I hated that and yes it’s been a long ride. Their QoS failed to work for a year for PPPoE users and is finally working again.
you should try the latest and try with one of their APs as you don’t have the control with third party APs. Saying you will never use them again then hoping problems are solved is not the way forward. Their beta is open to all and is a simple sign up and interesting if you are into this type of technology. You can do the same with Netgear which I’ve helped in the past. The more you get involved the more experience you gather over a range of products and different technology till you get to a point where you settle in to what you want to do. Glenn will probably ask you to update to latest firmware as support will have ended on the old firmware now. 

they do a few WiFi 6 APs, the enterprise one is pretty good which I use and has 6E. They also produce WiFi 6 mesh points but they do run hot built on the same form factor as the ones you have. Their APs are known as steady but don’t have the coverage of say the likes of NG who produce a few units with very good hardware for the WiFi side. Mesh on the Unifi is not great and they don’t use a dedicated backhaul channel so latency is an issue. I run a NanoHD in mesh and it’s painfull as the latency is and always will be an issue due to the mechanics of WiFi in such a set up where resources are split doing several jobs. Client talks, APs acknowledge and send receipt, drops sends acknowledgement to main AP and wait for a response, once response is received then wait for another client and the whole process is continuous. Not great for low latency requirements and one poor client can slow down the network very quickly if retransmissions occur. It’s why most wire up.

Unifi do have scopes for their AP range and not all have the same output, the UDM for example has low output and dBi is lower than most routers creating a more circular impression. Most of their APs are the same and the likes of NG and others have higher dBi resulting in a narrower beam. You will always require more of their APs to cover a set area.

 The RAX120 was nice and the RAXE500 has great WiFi too. Ok the 120 was draft but still very good and the 500 has the lowest latency you could want.

Im sure Cisco who released the wrong firmware for routers recently felt silly too and the back door that weighed down for many years. Even the top dogs make mistakes so no one is perfect and the recent NG firmware for the CAX line went belly up. Asus had a period of security issues, the list is endless but they all get there in the end. 
 

me, well I’ll try most things, I like to see progression using the newer technology but I’ve found my feet and have stepped back a bit waiting for the next leap in WiFi tech. 
 

you have an issue with the unit maybe, with QoS on you should be able to hit roughly around 800 with 80%. You could go higher but 80% is a rough starting point. If you need to alter the parameters of priority then it can’t be done on Unifi sadly.
That would be fine if you have a very busy network. It’s the threat management IPS/IDS that hits the throughput too on early firmware and that’s over 3Gbs now that issue is sorted. With a Gb you should not require QoS unless you have large amounts of clients pulling huge amounts all the time. Did you try limiting devices as well rather than using Smart Queues? When I had issues other users were testing and hitting well above 700. What version of the board do you have?
What switch are you using?

here’s a test on a UDM pro. Notice the comments about priority. Here he correctly tests throughput at 80% and gets almost 800 with it on. When you set the limit it will always be under in tests ie set to 50 you will get around 47 or 800 you get around 770. 

At some point you will have to take the leap of faith and update and then see if your issue remains. 
 

 

 

[Ivanbad]

What changed? I've seen several posts not to check these tests on the Xbox directly.

 

[KindaBusted]

16 hours ago, Ivanbad said:

What changed? I've seen several posts not to check these tests on the Xbox directly.

 

The Xbox Edge app has been updated for a more reliable experience. Through the last few weeks of testing I found that testing with Waveform on Xbox has led to better in game results.

 

[Ivanbad]

Hi LagFixes. I have 1 gig d/150 up. I have 2 devices, xbox and laptop wired up to the XR1000, and rarely use both simultaneously.  Nobody else using the internet . Wifi is turned off and i get that from my isp modem

Suggestions? Upnp on or off? Share excess on or off?

When i had an Edge Router it was simple to get an A+. I just did a speed test on Ookla on laptop and put in those values. If that didnt work i dropped values slightly and booyaka.

With this router i can't for the life of me get even an A, on laptop or Xbx.  If i use ookla values....B at best. If i use iinitial setup speeds...B. if i use benchmark speeds...B. if i use auto detect speeds.....B.(all these different type speed tests give vasly different values also, wtf)

Whatever test i run, or whatever values i input, and then tweek and test like crazy w/ the sliders, i NEVER get a good bufferbloat score.

Only 1 time i did but since that day, those same values now are actually worse l than a B lmao

Currently i find the best but inconsistant setup for me is to set my bandwith at 200/200. 100% sliders. Set to Never. Share excess off on devices. Set BA to 144/144 on xbox.  Traffic prio off.

Despite a dogpoopy buffer score, it still feels decent.

Any suggestions would help

 

 

[TrayDay]

14 hours ago, Ivanbad said:

Hi LagFixes. I have 1 gig d/150 up. I have 2 devices, xbox and laptop wired up to the XR1000, and rarely use both simultaneously.  Nobody else using the internet . Wifi is turned off and i get that from my isp modem

Suggestions? Upnp on or off? Share excess on or off?

When i had an Edge Router it was simple to get an A+. I just did a speed test on Ookla on laptop and put in those values. If that didnt work i dropped values slightly and booyaka.

With this router i can't for the life of me get even an A, on laptop or Xbx.  If i use ookla values....B at best. If i use iinitial setup speeds...B. if i use benchmark speeds...B. if i use auto detect speeds.....B.(all these different type speed tests give vasly different values also, wtf)

Whatever test i run, or whatever values i input, and then tweek and test like crazy w/ the sliders, i NEVER get a good bufferbloat score.

Only 1 time i did but since that day, those same values now are actually worse l than a B lmao

Currently i find the best but inconsistant setup for me is to set my bandwith at 200/200. 100% sliders. Set to Never. Share excess off on devices. Set BA to 144/144 on xbox.  Traffic prio off.

Despite a dogpoopy buffer score, it still feels decent.

Any suggestions would help

 

 

ALL TEST DONE BELOW IS ON PC (Will TEST AGAIN DIRECTLY WITH PS5, AS I KNOW THIS THREAD IS FOR XBOX)
Edit: not possible with PS5 browser. Test starts but doesn't run.

Seeing that your ISP bandwidth is 1gig/150up. I'm assuming, that you don't have true FTTP. That's if you're even on the fiber package, as usually it's more symmetrical in the package i.e; 150d/150u.

Now the issue at hand with waveform, I've come to the conclusion with such high bandwidth, QOS sliders can be 100% and Share excess OFF on where you would see high latency/ping on either download or upload in the Mean of the chart. 

I don't have Fiber, only Copper internet and my ISP package is 400/10. But my ISP generously give me over saturation of 550/25.  My download is where I have bad latency/ping load as you can see from the chart. With Congestion Control set to 'Always' and my sliders set to 100%/100% for download and upload. I also have my Download/Upload SET(capped) at 515.9 DL/22.5 UL. As this is for not using ALL the bandwidth ISP provides.

Now BELOW is where SHARE EXCESS is OFF, ONLY for DOWNLOAD. Since DOWNLOAD ACTIVE latency is as high as +17ms and over Mean +20ms but also jitter is high too

Ideally, you want Download Active & Upload Active as close as possible to 0+ ms. Usually those on DSL and Fiber are usually closer or at 0+ ms once they have dialed in their QoS. Also 'jitter' is a big thing as well. If you can get that as close as 0-1ms as possible. It's a huge help as well. But, plese don't stress over the jitter in waveform. Just worry above Download Active / Upload Active. Again, 0+ ms is Ideal. Usually, +5 ms is obtainable.

Also here's the setup on how it looks in the QoS

I just noticed the A+ above is from having 'NEVER" as Congestion Control. The result below is with it set to 'ALWAYS". My apologies, but What I stated above still stands.

[Fuzy]

You can rely on the PC test, I get essentially the same results on an Xbox!