Dillinger Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I don't know if this thread will take off, maybe it will, maybe it won't. I feel the need to get this off my chest, but truthfully I am using it as a dodge to get that angry Wookie Vanilla Gorilla's attention back where it belongs. Namely on Netduma Fraser and the [Duma] T-shirts in size Texas Stadium XL. Now, Hollywood Bigshots, I have been a fan of your TV & movies, specifically action genre, since the time I was able to be distracted by them. That is a whole lot of years, and tickets, we are talking about here. But I have to be honest, from my earliest memories, I have seen shit in your work that I knew was wrong, unsound, and unsafe when it came to weapons and who/how they were used on screen. I'm not talking about the nit-picky stuff here guys, so don't choke on that $50 stogie and just hear me out here! Things happen and we can "excuse" that, if you just make some corrections elsewhere. Little stuff like, you know, where the dialog says "And Mr. 9mm here" when the guy is obviously holding a .45, or you show someone talking about a "long range sniper shot from 2,000 yards away" and the guy is hold a short barreled rifle with a built-in suppressor. Because I don't believe in just bitching about something, and because I automatically assume you are going to assume I am not talking about your studio's work, I am going to show you what I am talking about, and make some suggestions to help you get it right the next time. Because at the end of the day we, your fans, really want you to keep turning out top quality work that we will gladly pay to watch, but you really need to do some tightening up. So, let get started here with a few winners from my WTF category.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Flashpoint: I believe this was a CBS show, and it lasted like 5 seasons, SOMEHOW. I have heard from other gun folks that the gunsmith work got better in later seasons, but I couldn't make it past just a couple of episodes after I started seeing shit like this: This is their "sniper". He has just confirmed that he has "the shooting solution". Anyone notice a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Small time TV, filmed in Canada is one thing, but how about some big budget movie stuff? Mr Willis, you MAY want to check your optics sir... Mr Stallone, it's a .45 caliber sir, with as many weights as you have lifted in your life, I believe you will be okay to hold the gun correctly. Mr. Travolta, Mr Cage, both of these weapons are automatics, when you run out of bullets in them, they LOCK open and your adversary will know you are empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 No one is seemingly immune, but I don't think I have had as much disgust with a series as I have with The Walking Dead. This show is terrible for firearms discipline and safety. Let's just look at a standard shot from their promo kit. Norman Reedus has actually had some real firearms training as part of the Boondock movies, but the rest of them. smh So maybe the guy's optic died, but he has NO REAR SITE and a Ramped A2 front sight. This guy is going to be shooting down stars in the 4th Nebula. I don't care about the carbine issue, that is easily explained, it's the Apololypse, but use the thing right! Well, at least he had a scope and tried to use it. Worst shooting stance, EVER! I am just going to call this one, Gun on the Ground, because as soon as she pulls that trigger, that is where this Beretta is going to end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted July 28, 2015 Administrators Share Posted July 28, 2015 You'll get your t-shirt soon, artist is working on it as we speak I'm actually super glad that I've never noticed any of these things in films/tv shows so I don't get taken out of the moment, blissful ignorance can be useful sometimes haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukasz Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Dude you are always hmmm.... I think i will call you form now on DR. Dillinger. You are like one of those Myth Busters dude. Very Knowledgeable. Though the very first picture is it that he is standing to far form the scope on on the wrong side? Dude where you get all that knowledge form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dog Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Nice D man! This could be fun... LOL @ Bruce! The last picture. At least she looks confident with her 'cup and saucer grip'. Gun > Face > Floor > Tears before bedtime. I dunno what's wrong with the picture . The whatchamacallit next to the thingamabob looks discombobulated to my untrained eye? Until the Ape Man cometh, I'll put a few up. T2. Eyes on target Honey! We were soldiers. Safety on before, or after he was shot? Pulp Fiction. Jules! Cocking with a finger on the trigger. smh. Commando. Whoa careful! That rubber gun could take somebody's eye out! Commando Now that's a good way to stow your grenades Mr Matrix. Moar Commando I've drawn a 'blank' on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Dude you are always hmmm.... I think i will call you form now on DR. Dillinger. You are like one of those Myth Busters dude. Very Knowledgeable. Though the very first picture is it that he is standing to far form the scope on on the wrong side? Dude where you get all that knowledge form? LOL - Nah, just plain old JD, I just have a few years of wasted knowledge in my head and never got on Spontaneous Jeopardy. :-) First picture: The scope is mounted 90 degress off. There are (2) adjustment knobs on a scope (Windage and Elevation). In the picture above, he has his Windage knob pointing straight down into the receiver. Never mind being able to adjust it, how about being able to chamber and un-chamber a round of ammo?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 LOL - GREAT additions Double D! I wanted to save some good images for those that wanted to play along. That grenade scene from Commando always had me scratching my head. Granted I was young enough to never have even SEEN a fake grenade when I first watched it, but the mechanics of how it worked, seemed like that might be a bit more risk than I was willing to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy clam Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Nice thread Dillinger,as always you never disappoint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 And now some scenes, or shows, where they get it a whole lot right. Mr. and Mrs. Smith. I assume you all know about them. Brad and Angie. They both are HUGE firearms proponents and there is a scene in this movie that was really cool. When they are in the imitation Home Depot and they are crisscrossing sight/fire lines as they stalk the bad guys, this is before the wrench swinging I think, and as soon as Brad goes to cross over, Angie actually rolls her eyes and lowers her weapon muzzle, as if she is upset with his unprofessionalism. It's a brilliant scene, and I don't know how much was scripted and how much was ad-libbed, but this scene was one of the high points on a movie I already thought was pretty good in the "firearms/action" genre. Make no mistake, there are some errors in this one, but there is a lot right in a movie that is known for "other" reasons by most. https://youtu.be/WnK__fdwEWk?t=2s Strike Back: This is probably the best show out right now for this type of action. Last season the show had a special screening of the first two episodes at a military base for recovering soldiers here in the States. These were all battle worn guys that got purple hearts, and whole lot more, so they know bullshit when they see it. The actors were really nervous, for obvious reasons, but the troops all were really impressed with how the scenes looked and "felt". I don't know who is handling their weapons work on the set, but the person or team is doing a great job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Netduma Fraser Posted July 29, 2015 Administrators Share Posted July 29, 2015 Ahh this reminds me, I watched the first season of strikeback and about 1-2 episodes of the second season one Friday night. Top quality show, thanks for recommending it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Ahh this reminds me, I watched the first season of strikeback and about 1-2 episodes of the second season one Friday night. Top quality show, thanks for recommending it Ha ha - Glad you like it. I think it's a great show and I am going to be seriously sad when it ends it's run this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Now that we have had some chuckles, it’s time to get into the meat of the thread. I have a couple of REAL issues that CONTINUE to pop up, all over the place, so it’s time to put some dirt on this bad writing and bad filming so we can bury it for good. “SNIPERS” Okay, first off, let me give you a very brief rundown of a couple of terms. Gunman: This is an unskilled, untrained, “Billy Basic” of owning a rifle, pointing it at something, shooting it and hoping for the best. They usually look something like this: Basically a “gunman” refers to most of the people you see in news shootings. They aren’t highly trained and THEY ARE NOT SNIPERS. Professionally Instructed Gunman (P.I.G.): This is someone who has gone through basic instruction in firearm use, including but not limited to: Firearm basics, Firearm cleaning/care/maintenance, Range estimation, bullet flight paths & trajectories, scouting/knowledge gathering, cover, concealment, etc). This training can be either through military service, or there are “civilian sniper schools” that will march you through the first level of going from gunman to the equivalent of a “P.I.G.”, though whether you are “allowed/encouraged” to call yourself that depends greatly on the company you keep. These guys usually compete in a wide variety of weekend competitions to keep their skills up as they don’t hold a “job” that allows them to shoot people on the regular, if you can imagine that. O.o A P.I.G. typically looks something like this: http://i.imgur.com/mYI5WCw.jpg[/img] Hunter of Gunman (H.O.G.) aka SNIPER: This is the top of the heap. This is OLYMPICS quality training, practice and more practice we are talking about here. For every 20 people telling you “I was a sniper”, you’d be hard pressed to research and find records confirming that on any of them. Real snipers are very quiet individuals who are usually a bit standoffish and reserved. They don’t brag. They sure as shit don’t mention “I’m a Sniper” between the “H” and the “I” when saying hello. The most recent person you probably know who was a True HOG was Chris Kyle. You might have seen his movie starring Bradley Cooper, or read the book, American Sniper. One thing that you will routinely see when a sniper is going to work is they have a spotter. The actual classification is SCOUT/SNIPER, as the first order of business is to Scout the area and record data. This "Scout" is another trained PIG or HOG who will constantly be glassing the lanes of fire, estimating and documenting ranges, indicating hits or misses and they almost always handle the radio and “permission to engage” calls. If you see them, that is if they aren’t trying to hide, they look like this: Now that we have some basic information out of the way, let’s talk specifics of where you guys have made a fucking silly mockery out of this incredible skillset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dog Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 If HK and can fuck-it-up... 'Sillywood', gots no hope! Accuracy, Reliability - No Competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca65 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Liked the topic. In a former life I was in the military, the Army to be precise. I have watched films an programmes show weapon handling in good and atrocious instances. One of the best WTF moments was in Saving Private Ryan a great film in my opinion. But you may have seen the sequence when the American sniper shoots the German sniper in the church tower through the scope into his eye Well believe it or not that was impossible, but a great movie moment all the same, sometimes you just have to go with the flo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca65 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Same film SPR when soldiers were being shot while under water...... Again almost impossible as the water density will stop the round (bullet) after a few inches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca65 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 One good and very realistic part was when the German machine gunner had Tom Hanks section pinned down. He said we'll move when they have to change barrels because of the barrel heating up through sustained firing.... an accurate event well done Hollywood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 But you may have seen the sequence when the American sniper shoots the German sniper in the church tower through the scope into his eye Well believe it or not that was impossible, but a great movie moment all the same, sometimes you just have to go with the flo So I was wondering if, and when, this would crop up. I have seen this a few times in movies, Tom Bergenger did the same shot in the original Sniper, shooting an enemy sniper through the scope. The first time I know of this being discussed was in Carlos Hathcock's book, "Marine Sniper: 93 confirmed kills", where he talks about shooting an enemy counter sniper through the scope after the guy had ALMOST out stalked him and his scout (who was shot in the canteen on his hip previously by the same guy). I saw the FIRST MythBusters attempt to re-create this shot. I was in San Fran at the time I swear they are located nearby because the range looked familiar. Then I saw the "re-enactment" and there was SO MUCH WRONG with their equipment, their assumptions and their conclusion. I lost a TON of respect for these guys after this episode, and I know they re-did the episode for more accuracy, but I haven't watched it because of how bad the first one was done. I don't know if the shot was made, was possible, or not. I do know that I attended a speaking engagement for Chuck Mawhinney, the guy who really had the record for most sniper kills through Vietnam, where he was asked about whether this happened or not. He stated he felt if it was in the book, it wasn't an embellishment. When asked if he saw the actual rifle that was supposedly confiscated he confirmed that he was NOT at the base of operations with Hathcock, so he would have had no way of knowing about it outside of word of mouth after the fact. So, for what it's worth. Nice additions to the thread Macca! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Same film SPR when soldiers were being shot while under water...... Again almost impossible as the water density will stop the round (bullet) after a few inches Ha ha ha - I always love these scenes. Such drama and tension building..... until you realize if the good guys were hit by the bullets, at most, they would get a welt/bruise...LOL Question: Why are the bad guys never underwater, making an incursion into a stronghold, and have good guys shooting at them?? Just wondering.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca65 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So I was wondering if, and when, this would crop up. I have seen this a few times in movies, Tom Bergenger did the same shot in the original Sniper, shooting an enemy sniper through the scope. The first time I know of this being discussed was in Carlos Hathcock's book, "Marine Sniper: 93 confirmed kills", where he talks about shooting an enemy counter sniper through the scope after the guy had ALMOST out stalked him and his scout (who was shot in the canteen on his hip previously by the same guy). I saw the FIRST MythBusters attempt to re-create this shot. I was in San Fran at the time I swear they are located nearby because the range looked familiar. Then I saw the "re-enactment" and there was SO MUCH WRONG with their equipment, their assumptions and their conclusion. I lost a TON of respect for these guys after this episode, and I know they re-did the episode for more accuracy, but I haven't watched it because of how bad the first one was done. I don't know if the shot was made, was possible, or not. I do know that I attended a speaking engagement for Chuck Mawhinney, the guy who really had the record for most sniper kills through Vietnam, where he was asked about whether this happened or not. He stated he felt if it was in the book, it wasn't an embellishment. When asked if he saw the actual rifle that was supposedly confiscated he confirmed that he was NOT at the base of operations with Hathcock, so he would have had no way of knowing about it outside of word of mouth after the fact. So, for what it's worth. Nice additions to the thread Macca! As a previous weapons instructor and Skill at Arms trainer, there are many factors to be taken into account, distance, light, wind, rain, curvature of the world etc, as you know rifles do not fire in a straight line as gravity will pull the shot lower the further it travels. So for the sniper to shoot through the scope it would have to travel straight, as the rifle would have to point upwards, therefore the shot would have to go in a slight arc reducing if not eliminating the chances of it going through the scope. I have thousands of hours experience in shooting during my military service, and was a qualified sharpshooter every year and was trained as a sniper although never fired a shot in anger as a sniper. I have competed in the Army Shooting competitions regularly held at Bisley so hopefully I have learned a little bit about shooting... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dog Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 As a previous weapons instructor and Skill at Arms trainer, there are many factors to be taken into account, distance, light, wind, rain, curvature of the world etc, as you know rifles do not fire in a straight line as gravity will pull the shot lower the further it travels. So for the sniper to shoot through the scope it would have to travel straight, as the rifle would have to point upwards, therefore the shot would have to go in a slight arc reducing if not eliminating the chances of it going through the scope. I have thousands of hours experience in shooting during my military service, and was a qualified sharpshooter every year and was trained as a sniper although never fired a shot in anger as a sniper. I have competed in the Army Shooting competitions regularly held at Bisley so hopefully I have learned a little bit about shooting... :) Talk about hiding your light under a bushel. Respect, Macca! I shot Bisley a few times and had a bit of coaching there. One of the instructors worked his magic on my distinctly average rising teal. They opened a second 'Bisley', in Scotland, a few years ago . I keep saying I'll go up and have a look, but not got there yet. You ever shoot clays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca65 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Talk about hiding your light under a bushel. Respect, Macca! I shot Bisley a few times and had a bit of coaching there. One of the instructors worked his magic on my distinctly average rising teal. They opened a second 'Bisley', in Scotland, a few years ago . I keep saying I'll go up and have a look, but not got there yet. You ever shoot clays? A long time ago I had a dabble at it, used a over and under 410 I think it was, the grey cells aren't as good as they were lol. Enjoyed it but it didn't grip me a shooting full bore. I used to love going to Bisley, it was a great two weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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