UPnP Drop and Not Working

[TwiztedDemise]

Keep having the issue with after adjusting QOS a bunch to find sweet spot the UPnP drops everything and will not pick anything up. Turning it off and rebooting and turning it back on will not work. Only way i have got this to correct is to factory reset. I have also noticed the ports do not drop after use like it should unless immediately after a factory reset. Ports Black Ops 4 uses with 3075 pick up and will not be released sometimes for atleast 12hrs. I have adjusted time to live to around 5 mins to experiment, hops to 25 to see if they are failing to make it to destination in time. Nothing seems to work after a period of time as per say, a week.

[Netduma Fraser]

Are you just having an issue with UPnP visually or is it causing you NAT problems?

[TwiztedDemise]

I would have to do further test to verify that. I know visually but thought it was not actually picking up as well. Also noticed with device prioritization if u use advanced option for a device and select 1-65535 as opening ports and 1-65535 with option for both udp and tcp it completely ignores the qos bandwidth set. Allows device full band reguardless if share excess is turned off. But if seleceted tcp or udp alone it does not ignore qos band set. 

[Netduma Fraser]

That's expected behaviour, Traffic Prioritization supercedes QoS. You're telling the router to prioritize that ahead of everything else.

[Sunaikinti]

Upnp needs to be updated to the latest miniupnpc. That's on netgear. Good luck with that. They haven't updated it in years.

[Zippy]

Hey Fraser.. What the Op is saying is also something im experiencing as well and have been for sometime now.. UPnP is not properly doing its job. It becomes stagnant. If I do a hard reset to the router and jump into a game its fine.. But with the very next new session it sometimes does not refresh to pick up any additional new ports if there are any.. Its not a problem if the next new session doesn't have any new ports but that is very hit and miss. Every new session usually always has a new port. Also even when the session is over and the said device is no longer online UPnP is still showing active.. Even when I pull the ethernet cord from the said device days later it still shows its active.. Which just tells you that UPnP has become unreliable at this point.. And ones NAT type will become inaccurate.. Again this is something ive reported almost 5 months ago.. This is not a visual error.. Im starting to see that used a lot on here for a answer to issues these routers are having..  If it was a visual error one would not have a performance hit from this with each new session.. One can easily test this using wireshark..  Things like this need to be resolved in a much more timely manner. Now this is likely a Netgear issue.. But also don't forget that DumaOS is on it as well and I would make sure Netgear is representing you guys properly.. Is there any beta firmware's out there that you or Netgear ever let people test? If so how can I become part of this?  Again please don't take this to heart.. These are issues that ive been trying to express for sometime and what causes this is uncertain to me..  But its literally impossible to help with things like this without any test or trial from either Netgear or NetDuma..

Zippy.

[Netduma Fraser]

I appreciate that visual issues are sometimes an unsatisfying answer, there was a case with UPnP that we confirmed was visual by asking users to do a backend command and it did show different ports than the table showed. I don't know if that is the case here or not. What performance hits are you getting? Theres a current beta firmware for XR700 that is available and requires you to join the Netgear beta forum, there is no such one for the XR500 as far as I am aware.

[Sunaikinti]

The geo filter is the only thing keeping me on this router. Openwrt has better qos, bufferbloat, wireless speed, and an updated miniupnpc. Netgear will eol the router before fixing it. If I knew duma didn't have complete control over firmware and updates, I would of bought the r1, which I assume duma has complete control over the hardware.

[Netduma Fraser]

1 hour ago, Sunaikinti said:

The geo filter is the only thing keeping me on this router. Openwrt has better qos, bufferbloat, wireless speed, and an updated miniupnpc. Netgear will eol the router before fixing it. If I knew duma didn't have complete control over firmware and updates, I would of bought the r1, which I assume duma has complete control over the hardware.

I doubt the QoS is better than what we can offer. Are you having issues? If so I suggest you make a post and we can take a look.

[Sunaikinti]

I just like being able to set bandwidth limits per device and priorities per device also. Example, gaming first, media second, pcs third and torrents/downloads last. And limit bandwidth to my son's pc because he's always downloading something. 

[Zippy]

8 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

I appreciate that visual issues are sometimes an unsatisfying answer, there was a case with UPnP that we confirmed was visual by asking users to do a backend command and it did show different ports than the table showed. I don't know if that is the case here or not. What performance hits are you getting? Theres a current beta firmware for XR700 that is available and requires you to join the Netgear beta forum, there is no such one for the XR500 as far as I am aware.

Thanks Fraser.. With these visual effects and the lack to be able to verify anything because of such things makes me wonder if I showed up to early to the party with the merger of Netgear and you guys.. Maybe in a few years things will have moved into a more transparent situation so one can verify things.. I honestly wish I would have been here during the R1 hay days! Basically what I did was bridge my computer between my xbox and router and used wireshark to capture the ports.. With each new session the list of ports sometimes would change.. And for some reason they would not always be picked up by UPnP.. I did this verification by using a port checker tool while with in the capture of existing and new port numbers.. The existing ports would come up as opened. But there would be times that it wouldn't always open any new ports.. Sometimes it would finally open them but that would be in the middle or towards the end of a game or session.. And this is what I mean by a performance hit.. Because you can clearly feel the difference in a game..  I think for now I will just wait and see what the next new firmware does.. I have the XR500 btw.. And for any future ideas we need a up to date UPnP table that shows everything.. I feel this XR500 is dumb down way to much..  Thanks again!

Zippy.

[Zippy]

6 hours ago, Sunaikinti said:

The geo filter is the only thing keeping me on this router. Openwrt has better qos, bufferbloat, wireless speed, and an updated miniupnpc. Netgear will eol the router before fixing it. If I knew duma didn't have complete control over firmware and updates, I would of bought the r1, which I assume duma has complete control over the hardware.

Unfortunately that was my other issue you just brought up! QoS.. I also have much better luck using Openwrt or ASUSwrt.. And I know NetDumaOS should perform the same if not even better but it doesn't for me.. Im really putting a lot of faith in the next firmware update that I hope shakes something lose in my XR500.. If I knew someone near me that had an R1 for sale id buy it.. Id love to compare this to my XR500..

Zippy.

[Guest Killhippie]

9 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

I doubt the QoS is better than what we can offer. Are you having issues? If so I suggest you make a post and we can take a look.

I would say Streamboost is better and once set is relax and forget. FQ_CoDel  and Cake are both great, maybe you should have a look at Streamboost that's nestling under the hood of the XR500 still in NTGRS firmware or check out Cake, both work brilliantly. No offence to DumaOS which eclipses the Netgear GUi too, but I'm pretty much in the same boat as Sunaikinti. geo really helps but the R7800 QoS is much simpler, sadly no hardware acceleration with OpenSSL as NTGR never updated it from two+ years ago, although Voxel has, but QoS on DumaOS can be a pain, and after asking for months for guides for setting bandwidth for devices like printers and soundbars and Wi-Fi speakers, even phones and tablets still nothing. I really have no idea what my printer should be set to download or upload wise, or my iPhone XS or iPad Pro or Zeppelin Wireless, Its all guess work. Streamboost handled all this automatically and still gave you the option to adjust it manually as well. If DumaOS could do that or give the option for that function it would be brilliant.

[Guest Killhippie]

4 hours ago, Zippy said:

Unfortunately that was my other issue you just brought up! QoS.. I also have much better luck using Openwrt or ASUSwrt.. And I know NetDumaOS should perform the same if not even better but it doesn't for me.. Im really putting a lot of faith in the next firmware update that I hope shakes something lose in my XR500.. If I knew someone near me that had an R1 for sale id buy it.. Id love to compare this to my XR500..

Zippy.

R1 is really old and not even dual band Zippy. Also the CPU has no grunt for modern 4K streaming etc. I would suggest trying a R7800, same hardware as the XR500 but 128mb less flash ram, but better QoS using Qualcomms Streamboost. You can then use Voxels firmware to update all the packages that NTGR fail to. The XR500 is due a update, its just over 3 mths since the last one, lots of bugs need squashing but so far nothing has been released yet. Quarterly updates if you are lucky is not the way a company should update its routers especially ignoring things like miniupnd and OpenSSL etc. The latter having been patched by NTGR but not publicly and is still at version 1.0 which is over a decade old. Not sure about OpenGPL for the new AX routers but they are a hot mess right now anyway and not to be bought in my view till the final draft later in the year and the possibility of new new silicon that will work with the final features that present SoCs probably wont.

[Zippy]

19 hours ago, Killhippie said:

R1 is really old and not even dual band Zippy. Also the CPU has no grunt for modern 4K streaming etc. I would suggest trying a R7800, same hardware as the XR500 but 128mb less flash ram, but better QoS using Qualcomms Streamboost. You can then use Voxels firmware to update all the packages that NTGR fail to. The XR500 is due a update, its just over 3 mths since the last one, lots of bugs need squashing but so far nothing has been released yet. Quarterly updates if you are lucky is not the way a company should update its routers especially ignoring things like miniupnd and OpenSSL etc. The latter having been patched by NTGR but not publicly and is still at version 1.0 which is over a decade old. Not sure about OpenGPL for the new AX routers but they are a hot mess right now anyway and not to be bought in my view till the final draft later in the year and the possibility of new new silicon that will work with the final features that present SoCs probably wont.

Thanks Killhippie! I know you have the good knowledge of Netgears stuff.. I appreciate all the advice..  In my eyes the one key thing a router needs is good QoS..  That is by far one of the most important factors for me.. I cant agree more.. This is why I love firmware's like Voxels, Merlin and alike.. They update things that normally aren't by the manufacture.. And when one does have an issue they take care of it in a very timely manner.. And its always good to chat with them on snb.. I am shocked we haven't had any firmware update for the XR500 yet and also feel that needs to be corrected.. As far as the R1 I understand what you mean.. It would be cool to try one just for a fun factor.  One of the best QoS routers ive had to date has been the EdgeX.. Was a bit amazed how well that little thing worked. One thing that would help also for NetDumasOS would be to have a section in the QoS that would ask what type of connection one has.. Like dsl, cable, vdsl, fiber.. And apply that QoS to the type of connection one has because you cant apply the same type of QoS for all types of providers/connections. They all respond different to various types of QoS.. So each one really needs to be applied in a different manner.. As fast as technology is moving these days what was once good is outdated weeks later or something better is being made.. Specially in the QoS field..  I will look into some of your suggestions.. Thanks again!

Zippy.