Moving on to a better ISP, suggestions? (South of England)

[RL317]

Virgin have a gamer package? Are they trolling or is it really better than the rest of their packages for gaming?

[BIG__DOG]

Virgin have a gamer package? Are they trolling or is it really better than the rest of their packages for gaming?

trolling, dont believe their hype. if it means faster speeds n shit like that it is a con as you dont need fast speeds for gaming......you need a good isp infrastructure.....which virgin do not have!

[RL317]

Inb4 it turns out they worded it in a way that allows them to get away with it because you can "download games and updates faster" lmao

 

Jokers. Three more days until I'm online with BT Infinity, can't wait

[ColonicBoom]

the 52mb service will only guarantee me 40mb so I imagine I'll be taking a hit in performance even if I went properly wired all the way. Damage limitation is key

 

You should be fine, i went from 150/12 (something like that) down to 28/7 approx and the only difference I notice is that I can actually play games now.

I upload a lot of large files for work and it doesn't affect gaming at all either. If you cause the Netflixers to watch slightly lower resolution then so be it.

Gaming comes first for gamers 

 

 

Virgin have a gamer package? Are they trolling or is it really better than the rest of their packages for gaming?

 

They do but it just has an increased upload, same infrastructure.

If you were in a particularly bad Virgin area (some people don't suffer as badly as others obviously) it would be exactly the same for gaming.

And it would cost you more each month.

[RL317]

You should be fine, i went from 150/12 (something like that) down to 28/7 approx and the only difference I notice is that I can actually play games now.

I upload a lot of large files for work and it doesn't affect gaming at all either. If you cause the Netflixers to watch slightly lower resolution then so be it.

Gaming comes first for gamers

That's reassuring, thanks mate. I just realised that was on the Sky site anyway; BT apparently guarantee 50mb at my address. Normally I wouldn't be bothered as I tend to game with no other devices online, but as you have less "disposable" bandwidth to play with when you set sliders on the Duma surely that would be an issue if you have another "bandwidth hoover" type device online at the same time? Either way the upload speed boost will be nice. If I finally start getting good consistent connections in BO3 it'd be nice to start uploading gameplays as frequently as I did during Ghosts and AW. Maybe even start streaming as I'll have more than enough upload and the PS4 has a nice new 60fps option I'd like to try out

 

I doubt it'll make much of a difference though; EU servers are as much Asian as they are European, and BO3 clearly can't handle laggers. My friend plays on Comcast cable and he melts in all local lobbies on the New Jersey server, despite his recent complaints of instability where he's clearly lagging in game as you might expect in a busy house on cable. If I can't achieve the same kind of hit detection that even he gets on his not quite optimised setup then I think I'll just uninstall and wait to see if CoD4R gets sold seperately.

[ColonicBoom]

If they guarantee 50mb then you will get that or they have to give you some money back I think.

I was only guaranteed that I would get 15/5 (it might have been less than that) and they said that it would be unlikely that I'd get any more because I'm a bit of a distance from the fibre cabinet but I was pleasantly surprised to get significantly more than that.

 

It would take a few serious bandwidth hoovers to cause a problem, and with you in hyperlane and the anti-flood set, it won't be you that suffers anyway.

I've set mine to 70/70 and I can't even tell when anyone else is using the internet at my house. I would think with 50 down, everyone in your house will be blissfully unaware of one another.

 

If you were in a relatively bad Virgin area then I expect you'll be well chuffed with your new line. If you're in a Virgin area like mine then you may lose your mind and piss your pants with excitement like I did. LET THERE BE LIGHT !

Bear in mind it can take a little while to settle, speeds that is not sure about stability. Mine was fine on day one though.

 

Regarding blops:

Don't hold your breath. While you shouldn't be lagging from your isp anymore, pretty much half of the lobby will be from there own (assuming PS4 plays as consistently as Xbox One).

Whilst I can actually play the game now and I don't stutter from isp lag, the game is a wreck regardless. One lobby will be buttery smooth, the next will be like eating a sand-covered dog turd with only tramp juice to wash it down.

 

And BO3 is about to be gang-banged to death when the big boys release all over, and split, it's player-base over the next few weeks.

And then all that will be left is a little gravestone that reads, "Didn't stand a chance, developers were a bit shit".

 

Don't write-off Infinite Warfare waiting for the individual release of MW:RM without checking it out or renting it though (if you can even rent games these days).

It might be the best one yet. Amen.

[RL317]

CB - sorry mate, I never got a notification for your reply. Anyway I'm online with Infinity now and things are looking good. Wired directly to the Smart Hub, using powerline adapters or even WiFi, no matter... I have never seen such a stable connection. This was using a website I recently found to enable me to run pings or trace routes to different sites on my PS4 browser, but I tried it on my phone to test both 2.4G and 5G WiFi:

 

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=1 ttl=55 time=7.57 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=2 ttl=55 time=7.61 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=3 ttl=55 time=7.59 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=4 ttl=55 time=7.62 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=5 ttl=55 time=7.58 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=6 ttl=55 time=7.63 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=7 ttl=55 time=7.59 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=8 ttl=55 time=7.57 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=9 ttl=55 time=7.59 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=10 ttl=55 time=7.60 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=11 ttl=55 time=7.57 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=12 ttl=55 time=7.59 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=13 ttl=55 time=7.65 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=14 ttl=55 time=7.58 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=15 ttl=55 time=7.61 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=16 ttl=55 time=7.61 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=17 ttl=55 time=7.59 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=18 ttl=55 time=7.59 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=19 ttl=55 time=7.62 ms

40 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=20 ttl=55 time=7.71 ms

 

--- bbc.co.uk ping statistics ---

20 packets transmitted, 20 received, 0% packet loss, time 19075ms

rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 7.575/7.606/7.710/0.121 ms

 

Mind blowing. Every single test I ever did on VM had me spiking to 30-40ms every few seconds which, while it's not exactly a huge excess, was noticeable when it was bouncing from 10ms and back again so often.

 

I picked the 52mb option that gave me an estimate of 54-55mb considering my distance from the cab (I could throw a stone from my front door and hit it 9/10 if my aim was on point ) with a guaranteed minimum of 50mb, and upload of 10mb. It was fluctuating a fair bit on the second day, but I've read that's normal after a new install while the line stabilises. For the most part I'm getting 50-55 down and 9-10 up so I'm happy with that. I'm just really glad I've ditched the jitter that made me feel behind the action so much.

 

My only problem now is I'm using a laggy little spare TV as my monitor died too. I can hear and feel the improvement in hit detection, but the input lag is so rough I can't aim and I can't see three bar gods coming lmao. They're the only players who give me any trouble now. Fortunately BT are sending me a £125 reward card for ordering (a disposable debit card, I guess) and as soon as it turns up I'm buying a new BenQ after that it's time to get a new Netduma and start enjoying my best setup yet! I'm still excited for this DumaOS thingy LOL

[ColonicBoom]

Great to hear you've seen a massive improvement TS.

That looks like a really smooth line you have there, very nice!

 

And...

 

I told you so 

[RL317]

Just a quick follow up to Sharpz'/Zennon's suggestion.

 

Is it RJ11 to RJ11 or RJ45 to RJ11 twisted pair that I want to be buying to connect my faceplate to the BT Hub? If I'm fully understanding the info I've found, the faceplate uses an RJ45 socket that DOES accept RJ11 but because it's not a perfect fit it can damage the socket? I'd imagine RJ45 to RJ11 would offer better performance for that reason too.

 

I've also started seeing packet loss on Pingplotter tests to numerous IPs including Google DNS and google/twitter/bbc.co.uk. Is this cable likely to be the cause? While Virgin gave me a jittery line like this, I never had any packet loss to the final hop on any test.

 

Thanks for any further advice you can give me!

[RL317]

Spoke to India (BT Live Chat), went through the headbanging routine of explaining I'm wired/nothing else is using my line etc. They told me they don't deal with packet loss, until I mentioned bandwidth has been dropping and suddenly he wants to help.

 

He "tests" my line (not sure how when the BT Smart Hub doesn't respond to ping requests) and says it's very stable from exchange to hub. Well my tests show packet loss and even jitter...

 

Anyone got any ideas? If the flat cheapo RJ11 is likely to be causing this packet loss (through interference) then that's a relief because I've just ordered a quality RJ45 to RJ11 twisted pair from Mr Telephone. But I'm just so sick of dealing with connection issues that it's sucking all the fun out of gaming for me. BO3/IW are unplayable for me right now

[Zennon]

There is 100% packet loss from the hub, you need to swap out the Ethernet cable from the hub to the testing device first.

 

If that does not fix it try a new RJ11 from the master socket to the BTHH.

 

If that does not clear it do you have another router to test with?

[RL317]

Cheers Zennon, really appreciate all the help.

 

I've just been using the short cat5e cable that came with the Hub but I could try something else for now. That cat5e isn't what I use for gaming though, just testing between the Hub and my computer. I've ordered a twisted pair RJ45 to RJ11 from the link on the previous page to replace with the flat RJ11 that came with the Hub and that'll be here in a couple of days. Do you think that'll make a significant difference? I know the flat one is of inferior quality but is that a potential cause of packet loss? I don't understand why the connection was so stable to start with but now I get this...

 

Unfortunately I've only got a BT Smart Hub at the moment. I will actually be ordering a new Netduma tomorrow; I've been skint having been forced to replace everything that got destroyed last month, on top of having to recover from moving expenses.

 

I'll try the cat5e Belkin cable I use for my PS4 instead before running another Pingplotter test. Very disappointing that I'm spending much of my time simply testing my connection rather than enjoying it gaming again

 

Edit: off topic but how would I go about setting up the Netduma with the Smart Hub? It doesn't have a modem/bridge mode despite being a modem/router in one

[Zennon]

The changing of cables is to rule out a bad one, the changing of routers would be to see if that is bad also.

 

Sometimes filters fail also, you have to try these things before blaming the actual broadband line or Open Reach charge you when they come to test the line if it is your equipment at fault.

 

But with the packet loss showing at the HH I suspect a cable or faulty HH.

 

Master socket > HH > Netduma you can place the Netduma's WAN IP into the HH's DMZ if you have any NAT issues.

[RL317]

Alright I tried another Ethernet cable (a higher quality shielded one) and there's no longer packet loss on the last hop, obviously the only part that matters. First hop packet loss only remains when I use a faster test refresh frequency (strange they haven't fixed that with the recent update). Could this be coincidence because they've just performed an SNR refresh (or something along those lines) though? I'll give the old Ethernet cable a try again and one point tonight.

 

Jitter is still there though. First hop latency to the router, which wouldn't exceed 1.4ms before, is all over the place. Same goes for latency to the last hop. In the first week it would never stray from the original millisecond.

 

BT asked me to DM them some screenshots of test results and stuff on Twitter, but then they just gave me the Live Chat link again and I'm not speaking to them again because they didn't speak English and didn't know what I was talking about, so I'm stumped this is nothing like Infinity performance anyone I know has.

[Zennon]

Ive noticed you have the interval set to 0.5 on Ping Plotter this is too fast change it too 2.5 and the PL should stop.

[RL317]

Sorry had to edit my message. Yeah initially I was getting packet loss across the board even on 2.5 sec.

[Zennon]

Show me a new plot taken now with a  2.5 interval please.

[RL317]

Computer just restarted itself for an update. Will send the screenshot across in a few minutes.

 

Bear in mind I'm using the same cable I used before (the one provided with the Hub) and the packet loss has gone but the latency is still up and down. I'll show you what I mean.

[RL317]

The first three screenshots attached are from two nights ago, using the cat5e cable that came with the Hub. 2.5 second intervals, 100% packet loss at times but stable latency for the most part. Tested to three different IPs but that was to show 2.5 sec intervals still gave me packet loss.

 

The fourth screenshot is from tonight using the same cable on 2.5 sec intervals with no packet loss (not sure what the third hop is doing, but there's no loss on the first or final hops...), but I keep getting random spikes with no other devices using the line.

[Zennon]

That is just a hop that does not respond to ICMP ping requests that is is normal on a BT line.

 

You have a few spikes but i am guessing somebody was using the network at that point and you have not got congestion control set with your bandwidth and sliders set to 70% each way to stop local congestion.

 

Apart from you needing to sort the congestion section that is spot on and you can relax now.

[RL317]

So because I don't have my Netduma hooked up yet, someone using the line in the local area, not my house, could be causing those spikes? I made sure my computer was the only device connected to my Hub to eliminate any randomness in the house. Forgive my ignorance; I assumed local congestion meant in the home only, but of course everyone in a street on the same ISP shares bandwidth don't they?

 

You probably can't see it because of the large spikes causing the plot to zoom out but it would still fluctuate some 15ms on those smaller peaks. Could this be Google DNS causing the problem itself? I just tried further tests to BBC and Google websites and there's still a fair amount of fluctuating going on.

 

Safe to assume twisted pair RJ11 from socket to Hub will help improve things here? Or does that help in another way?

 

Gaming is still awful for me. Lots of audibly delayed shots or no hit reg at all. Behind the action even with the best weapon for the range I'm at, quickdraw, great accuracy and so on. Is it safe to put two assumptions together here and say BT is popular around here, local congestion DOES include neighbours on the line, and that things will improve in terms of jitter when I get my R1 back into my setup and tweak the bandwidth a little?

 

That sounds better than my old setup honestly because VM gave me jitter which showed up even with congestion control applied for A+ bufferbloat.

[Zennon]

Local Network = your network, your household using your bandwidth creating jitter spikes.

 

The duma stops this by creating a buffer when using the congestion control.

[RL317]

Oh right, yeah I wasn't sure. I didn't have any other devices using the line while testing so I guess the computer was doing something in the background then (updating something)?

 

Ignoring the packet loss that seems to have disappeared, would you say this line looks better overall than the plots I posted for my VM line a while back? I'm sure it can only get better when I pick up my new Duma. Plus this anti-jitter/spike feature I heard about for the new OS sounds interesting, assuming I've got the right idea about what it's for lol

[Zennon]

The plot is great 100 times better than VM.

[RL317]

Twisted pair RJ45 to RJ11 turned up today. They were right about RJ45 being a better, snug fit in the socket!

 

I haven't seen any positive difference in performance though. Base latency to 8.8.8.8 is actually about 20% higher and line is jittery, more so than yesterday. Even first hop latency is bouncing all over the place, rather than the usual 1-1.4ms. Time to smash head off wall again.