Higher Base Ping

[x12Tyler]

Just now, Deasha said:

I’ve noticed the same happening as well, my R2 in game ping sat around 15ms and the ping heat map showed 15ms. The R3 is showing around 19ms on heatmap and 19ms in game on my Xbox series X  

You can see how it fluctuates by watching it on the ping heatmap and clicking on the server as well.

[x12Tyler]

1 hour ago, x12Tyler said:

You can see how it fluctuates by watching it on the ping heatmap and clicking on the server as well.

Basically the same as what ping plotter was showing if you look at that screen shot, it just keeps fluctuating sometimes by 2-5ms sometimes more instead of staying at a stable ping. 

[johnnytran]

I have the same issue, I have flagged it many times

You can see first 3 screenshots here are of the R3, last one is the R2. I've tried disabling everything with no luck. My guess is it's related to the QoS/queueing discipline being used

 

[x12Tyler]

24 minutes ago, johnnytran said:

I have the same issue, I have flagged it many times

You can see first 3 screenshots here are of the R3, last one is the R2. I've tried disabling everything with no luck. My guess is it's related to the QoS/queueing discipline being used

 

That’s what I’m trying to figure out, they keep having you disabled all the features in the router which I have tried doing, I out the max from my r2 in, I’ve adjusted was although the ping optimizer adjusts the sliders back to 100%, 75% on the upload this time but usually 100% on both with no change. You can see the fluctuations happening on ping plotter and just by simply watching the server in real time. These fluctuations in return when I try to use steady ping forces the ping way higher then it should be imo anyway what should be 20ms with steady ping on is then 30-40ms and  I do really like the steady ping option so far. If it’s something they can fix in a firmware update great if not it’s not looking good for the r3 because these are the worst fluctuations I’ve ever experienced on any router, and my buddy experiences the same thing as well as you and a few others I’ve seen. Like in this screen shot I can tell by watching the ping goes to the normal 14-15ms but it’s fluctuating to 18-20 consistently which lines up with ping plotter and what happens in game.

[johnnytran]

12 minutes ago, x12Tyler said:

That’s what I’m trying to figure out, they keep having you disabled all the features in the router which I have tried doing, I out the max from my r2 in, I’ve adjusted was although the ping optimizer adjusts the sliders back to 100%, 75% on the upload this time but usually 100% on both with no change. You can see the fluctuations happening on ping plotter and just by simply watching the server in real time. These fluctuations in return when I try to use steady ping forces the ping way higher then it should be imo anyway what should be 20ms with steady ping on is then 30-40ms and  I do really like the steady ping option so far. If it’s something they can fix in a firmware update great if not it’s not looking good for the r3 because these are the worst fluctuations I’ve ever experienced on any router, and my buddy experiences the same thing as well as you and a few others I’ve seen

Yeah it's not normal. I have a direct fibre line and my ping normally sits on 5-6ms max in-game with other routers but it fluctuates between 9-11 on the R3 without steady ping. Steady ping gives that buffer of another 8-10ms so I see anywhere from 17-20ms in-game which is fine but if my base ping was what it should be, with steady ping i'd be sitting around 15ms.

When I've experimented with other QoS schedulers in the past they make your ping behave differently, you can see the different patterns using ping plotter so that's why my guess is it's related to that. My ping plotter results show the same pattern throughout the day where there's some low ping then some high, then some low etc. but the issue is some of the spikes are above 20ms, at least 3x my base ping.

If you normally have a stable ping with no spikes then none of those settings e.g. changing sliders will do anything to what we're seeing with our base ping. It's built in to their QoS at the moment

[x12Tyler]

5 minutes ago, johnnytran said:

Yeah it's not normal. I have a direct fibre line and my ping normally sits on 5-6ms max in-game with other routers but it fluctuates between 9-11 on the R3 without steady ping. Steady ping gives that buffer of another 8-10ms so I see anywhere from 17-20ms in-game which is fine but if my base ping was what it should be, with steady ping i'd be sitting around 15ms.

When I've experimented with other QoS schedulers in the past they make your ping behave differently, you can see the different patterns using ping plotter so that's why my guess is it's related to that. My ping plotter results show the same pattern throughout the day where there's some low ping then some high, then some low etc. but the issue is some of the spikes are above 20ms, at least 3x my base ping.

If you normally have a stable ping with no spikes then none of those settings e.g. changing sliders will do anything to what we're seeing with our base ping. It's built in to their QoS at the moment

So my question then is do you think it’s something they can fix with a firmware update? Because from what I’m seeing it seems like they are trying to act like it’s normal saying stuff like the ping heatmap is updated and might show different then the r2, but that’s not really the issue to begin with, the heatmap seems to be showing accurately from what I’m seeing it’s just the overall ping fluctuating that’s the issue.

[Cobrinio]

15 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Possibly it could be just introducing a new router into your setup, some ISPs seem to take a little while to get settled when there is a new router. A good test would be to take the MAC address of your previous router and make the R3 use that instead. As well as dialing in your Congestion Control/SmartBOOST settings. If you're using WiFi instead of ethernet experiment with the channels/widths to find what works best for you. 

I've also provided a firmware via PM that may improve things.

Please send me too Fraser when you have time. I am with(4.0.21)

Merry Christmas

[johnnytran]

5 hours ago, x12Tyler said:

So my question then is do you think it’s something they can fix with a firmware update? Because from what I’m seeing it seems like they are trying to act like it’s normal saying stuff like the ping heatmap is updated and might show different then the r2, but that’s not really the issue to begin with, the heatmap seems to be showing accurately from what I’m seeing it’s just the overall ping fluctuating that’s the issue.

It can definitely be fixed in firmware updates. There might just be a misunderstanding of what the issue is / they might not be aware that the R3, with all ping/QoS settings disabled, has raised people's pings and has introduced some jitter on otherwise stable connections. It could be something they look into after the Christmas break

[Klown]

@Netduma Fraser is it possible that i get the firmware as well?

[Newfie]

11 hours ago, x12Tyler said:

First screenshot is full r3 10 min test second is r3 on the left vs r2 on the right which even then you can see a clear difference. I messed around with the qos sliders since ping optimizer puts them at 100 and it was still just as bad or even worst on the r3.

That is great. Thank you for showing the photos. As long as no traffic was on the network at the time it shows that there is an issue. Would be nice to have closed PingPlotter as the R2 test lost its target source.

It’s almost as if traffic is being sent out without any internal control. Would be interesting to know if any traffic is seen using something like wireshark. 

[x12Tyler]

1 hour ago, Newfie said:

That is great. Thank you for showing the photos. As long as no traffic was on the network at the time it shows that there is an issue. Would be nice to have closed PingPlotter as the R2 test lost its target source.

It’s almost as if traffic is being sent out without any internal control. Would be interesting to know if any traffic is seen using something like wireshark. 

I have ran multiple pingplotter tests at this point on the r2 and r3 with nothing connected at all besides the pc running pingplotter, I even ran it pinging my ip, on the ip itself test for the r2 stays about 0.4-0.5ms with the highest being 0.8ms in a 10 minute test. The R3 varies constantly up to 4 ms. So something is causing it to keep spiking, definitely don’t think it’s my network either as there is another guy on here that has reported the same and my buddies does the same thing. For reference on the r2 that graph never goes over the 1ms line compared to it going over the 4ms line here

[Klown]

@x12Tyler you playing cod? are you also having the random packet burst issues if so?

 

[x12Tyler]

1 minute ago, Klown said:

@x12Tyler you playing cod? are you also having the random packet burst issues if so?

 

No packet burst just a higher then normal fluctuating ping but that’s happening for everything not just cod.

[AsNCo]

This is in line with what I experienced using the simple Bufferbloat tests. Higher jitter and higher lag spikes when connection was on idle.

So here's an example. CC Enabled (Speedtest Bypass Off) with 100/100 for both the R2 and R3 + R3 w Steady Ping

R2
25th %ile: 3.2 ms
75th %ile: 3.9 ms
95th %ile: 4.3 ms
Jitter: 0.5 ms

R3
25th %ile: 7.3 ms
75th %ile: 9.5 ms
95th %ile: 12.6 ms
Jitter: 1.6 ms

R3 with Steady Ping
25th %ile: 3.5 ms
75th %ile: 4.5 ms
95th %ile: 7.2 ms
Jitter: 0.8 ms

[Sweeper2890]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:30 AM, Netduma Fraser said:

Possibly it could be just introducing a new router into your setup, some ISPs seem to take a little while to get settled when there is a new router. A good test would be to take the MAC address of your previous router and make the R3 use that instead. As well as dialing in your Congestion Control/SmartBOOST settings. If you're using WiFi instead of ethernet experiment with the channels/widths to find what works best for you. 

I've also provided a firmware via PM that may improve things.

I need a firmware too Frasier. Thx

[Deasha]

If possible I’d love to sneak in on this FW too. Cheers legends 🍻 

[x12Tyler]

Bumping…. I know you guys are busy for the holidays but this is a major issue that’s about to case me to have to shelf the r3.

[Alias 1aB]

ping stabilizer is adding latency to the server connection yes. But gameplay is just fine and very much playable. I know exactly what ping I used to get to the closest server to me (14-15 ms). Now that same server is 20-21 ms. yes it is substantially higher but the game is very playable or maybe even better, that's the point of getting a R3 router right? I think we can all experiment and give our feedbacks.

We gotta give the Netduma guys some credit. They have already updated the firmware twice in less than 2 weeks. They are listening to the feedback making the adjustments so the best we can do is give our input. How many companies can you say that you give $200 to for their product actually listens to your input? The R3 is not a product without flaws but at least they are working to make it better.

[x12Tyler]

46 minutes ago, Alias 1aB said:

ping stabilizer is adding latency to the server connection yes. But gameplay is just fine and very much playable. I know exactly what ping I used to get to the closest server to me (14-15 ms). Now that same server is 20-21 ms. yes it is substantially higher but the game is very playable or maybe even better, that's the point of getting a R3 router right? I think we can all experiment and give our feedbacks.

We gotta give the Netduma guys some credit. They have already updated the firmware twice in less than 2 weeks. They are listening to the feedback making the adjustments so the best we can do is give our input. How many companies can you say that you give $200 to for their product actually listens to your input? The R3 is not a product without flaws but at least they are working to make it better.

No router should increase your ping the and have high fluctuations like the r3 is currently giving, is it playable yes should it be happening still no, its a major flaw in possibly the qos or something else currently and it needs to continue to be pushed as an issue that needs fixed.

secondly no ping stabilizer don’t increase your ping it does the opposite and lowers it your thinking of steady ping and even that isn’t currently working properly and I also believe that is because the ping fluctuations that are occurring, I’ve seen some comment about it becoming unstablilized over and over in games like warzone well from my experience it’s because the ping fluctuations as well. And tbh there should be no reason steady ping on a server that should technically be 14-16 max is stabilizing all the way up at 60-70 ping which is occurring at times, sometimes it will stabilize around 25, sometimes 30, sometimes 40 then you get those extremes of 50-70 and on those games I’ve seen the ping go up and down the entire games causing an even worst experience then it would have been with it off. If I turned steady ping off I’ve never seen it go over 22-23 anyway so it definitely isn’t fluctuating that high again the server should be 14-16 anyway  but I would guess that is something they can easily work out the issue with the higher base ping to begin with idk that’s what I’m trying to figure out if it is going to be something they can fix or not and am bringing it up, because these issues are likely affecting many if not all they just don’t realize it and haven’t did the testing I have so far with the r3 compared to the r2, xr500, and Asus Rog rapture routers.

[Newfie]

5 hours ago, x12Tyler said:

Bumping…. I know you guys are busy for the holidays but this is a major issue that’s about to case me to have to shelf the r3.

It’s holiday time here in the U.K.. many companies are closed till the new year so it’s just a case of waiting a few days. 

[x12Tyler]

Just now, Newfie said:

It’s holiday time here in the U.K.. many companies are closed till the new year so it’s just a case of waiting a few days. 

I understand I do believe it will have to be something fixed through a firmware update anyway just believe it should be prioritized as this seems to be affecting most if not everyone even if they don’t realize it yet. 

[Netduma Fraser]

For those with the seemingly higher pings when using the R3 please do the following, ideally testing with PingPlotter and offering a plot from your ISP modem as a comparison:

1. Ensure the upstream/ISP modem/router the R3 is connected to is setup with the R3 in its DMZ or in modem/bridge mode.
2. Ensure ALL devices are connected to the R3 or at the very least that there are no devices connected/using internet on the upstream router when testing
3. If you have multiple ethernet cables test using different cables connecting the R3 to the modem/the R3 to your device
4. Disable IPv6 in LAN/WAN
5. Please state if you are using PPPoE, VLAN or DHCP identifiers
6. Use a different DNS such as 1.1.1.1 / 1.0.0.1
7. As a test make an Internet rule to the device and allow ALL traffic then test, is there a difference? (Settings > Internet Rules)
8. As a test put the PC in the DMZ (briefly for the test then remove), then do a test, is there a difference?
9. Remove all prioritizations from SmartBOOST including activities/devices
10. If the above doesn't help disable SmartBOOST entirely from the 3 dots menu top right of the page  > Settings then test
11. Disable Steady Ping on the Geo-Filter page in case it is affecting traffic outside the Geo-Filter - also ensure no devices are added there
12. Disable Adblocker
13. Ensure you have your correct speeds entered in Speed Test > Advanced
14. With SmartBOOST enabled, adjust Congestion Control in Ping Optimizer > Advanced and have it set to Always On and ensure speed test bypass is disabled
15. Ensure you're doing this test over a wired connection - NOT WiFi
16. Ensure in WAN/LAN Settings that the speeds of the ports are at 1Gbps
17. Remove any port forwarding/DMZ/static routes you may have set
18. Test at different times of the day i.e. during peak time (results may be worse) and during non peak times (should be better)

Once you've covered everything on this list please let us know the results. This should give us a good indicator of what the problem may be if it's covered in the list or whether it's something more on the backend. The team can then have a look. 

[Kym]

Hello @Netduma Fraser. Could you please check my earlier DM regarding this ping issue. I'd also like the latest FW to test with, thanks.

[Netduma Fraser]

24 minutes ago, Kym said:

Hello @Netduma Fraser. Could you please check my earlier DM regarding this ping issue. I'd also like the latest FW to test with, thanks.

That's really helpful thank you, I'll pass that onto the team. Sent the firmware

[Cobrinio]

Hello @Netduma Fraserplease can i have this software too.

thank you!!