Ca11mecowboy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think this is a pretty cool router. It definitely helps to lower ping. The Geofilter filters hosts geographically. The congestion controls are simplistic and easy to use. The UPNP is spot on. The general setup and functionality of this router is easier to use than any router with similar capabilities. If you've read any of my posts, you'll see that I've read up and have the device configured correctly. The ping graphs measure very low. As a matter of fact, the NetDuma has also been a great tool to eliminate the variables in my own connection. I am now confident that my high speed internet is working optimally. I'm confident that my connection to Xbox live is optimal. I'm confident that all of my wiring is correct. I've eliminated input lag. FYI, I play with a Scuf and the Astro A40s. (My setup is tight. ) But Dominate Lag? Shoot, I feel like Dakota Johnson in that 50 shades movie. I can't tell a difference from before I got this router and after. My overall gaming experience is the same as it ever was. I've had this router for more than 2 months. I've had some good sessions to be sure. But I had some good sessions before I bought this device. The problem has always been that there was never any real consistency. For the record, I think NetDuma has rock solid customer support...these guys definitely go above and beyond. This is a neat company and a cool product. My intention is not to complain or to disparage this fine product or this company. I'm hoping to open a real dialogue. I mean I paid 250 bucks for this thing and my genuine hope was that I could have a consistently enjoyable experience playing online shooters. I've read through just about every post on the forum and have had the dev's input on some particular issues. At this point, I've tried my home location on all 50 states, every continent, the two major oceans and smack in the middle of Santa's living room. It doesn't seem to help. I don't mean to speak unilaterally. It appears that many of you are having a much better experience than I am; which makes me doubly sad. Unfortunately, it also appears that the issues caused by "lag" go well beyond what a router can control, at least in my case. I'm confident that there are major problems with the game I like to play most right now. It's the most current one; I won't mention it by name out of respect to the forum rules. But I definitely ain't dominating lag. I also think that Lag (or the experiential frustrations we've all designated as lag) go well beyond any one ping to the host. The R1 has been fun to play with and has given me lots of tinkering to do...but it has not fixed my lag issues. I guess it was worth a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppetMaster Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Have had no problems with the router. My overall gaming has become enjoyable again. I'm not saying it'll work for everyone as ISPs are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ca11mecowboy Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 As I said, it's a fine router. Easiest thing to use I've ever come across. I even acknowledged the very fact that it's clearly working well for others. If it's my ISP, there is no real evidence. According to the diagnostics on the Duma, I've got excellent Ping, excellent Jitter and 0 packet loss. AT&T says it's all good too, and they've been out 3 times at my insistence after purchasing the Duma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ca11mecowboy Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Jitter Spikes Packet Loss Exceptional Exceptional Exceptional No Loss Show Details Ping PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=0 ttl=55 time=10.165 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=1 ttl=55 time=9.800 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=2 ttl=55 time=9.818 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=3 ttl=55 time=9.871 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=4 ttl=55 time=9.914 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=5 ttl=55 time=9.946 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=6 ttl=55 time=10.004 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=7 ttl=55 time=10.026 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=8 ttl=55 time=9.913 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=9 ttl=55 time=10.004 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=10 ttl=55 time=10.062 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=11 ttl=55 time=9.859 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=12 ttl=55 time=9.850 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=13 ttl=55 time=9.995 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=14 ttl=55 time=10.019 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=15 ttl=55 time=9.991 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=16 ttl=55 time=10.015 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=17 ttl=55 time=10.280 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=18 ttl=55 time=9.940 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: seq=19 ttl=55 time=9.894 ms --- 8.8.8.8 ping statistics --- 20 packets transmitted, 20 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max = 9.800/9.968/10.280 ms Trace traceroute to 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 192.168.1.254 0.551 ms 0.403 ms 0.477 ms 2 162.193.132.1 10.851 ms 34.129 ms 16.893 ms 3 71.149.77.116 6.428 ms 4.082 ms 4.442 ms 4 75.8.128.144 4.602 ms * * 5 12.83.68.137 3.871 ms 12.83.68.145 5.020 ms 12.83.68.137 6.817 ms 6 12.122.138.189 9.209 ms 9.220 ms 8.974 ms 7 * * * 8 72.14.232.219 10.095 ms 216.239.47.68 9.910 ms 72.14.232.219 10.038 ms 9 8.8.8.8 9.746 ms 9.653 ms 9.596 ms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A7Legit Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 If your issue is with CODAW, it's the game, it's a bad game. What games are you having issues with and what are your Congestion Control settings like, plus what speeds do our ISP provide you with? Do family members use the internet whilst you game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppetMaster Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 As I said, it's a fine router. Easiest thing to use I've ever come across. I even acknowledged the very fact that it's clearly working well for others. If it's my ISP, there is no real evidence. According to the diagnostics on the Duma, I've got excellent Ping, excellent Jitter and 0 packet loss. AT&T says it's all good too, and they've been out 3 times at my insistence after purchasing the Duma. Why was your ISP at your house if nothing was wrong. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buds Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Why was your ISP at your house if nothing was wrong. Just curious. At a guess because the OP is fastidious and has been exploring all possible causes before posting. The post was excellent and shows a real understanding on the product, research into causes / solutions etc. The OP's connection has great stats and should be optimal for online gaming (assuming even low upload / download stats - games use tiny amounts of bandwidth). It's a shame the Netduma has not given you the benefits it has to me. But at a guess we play different games. The Devs here are not against naming games and issues, they just want to avoid bashing etc which could impact commercial relationships in longer term. If I may make an assumption, are your current frustrations with Advanced Warfare? I personally avoid COD games but have observed the boards with all the posts and frustrations and there does seem to be an issues with some aspects of online play with this title (I'm being diplomatic lol). Could you let us know what games you feel the Netduma has not improved your online experience and we can go from there? Also when you are gaming are you the sole user of the Internet connection or is it shared with the household? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma_Iain Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Thanks for the honest comprehensive post. I'm just going to post back my honest opinion as well. Firstly lag is subjective, I know some people who don't complain at 150ms which seems absurd to me then there are others who complain on LAN(ok I'm talking about myself). When I developed this product and first got the geo-filter working on Halo 3 I couldn't believe how good it was. I noticed however after a few days I started to complain again, because well 1) you get used to it 2) even at low pings games give you a bit of BS. But the difference between a low ping BS and high ping BS is night and day. I've seen BS on LAN on Halo 3, snipe shots not registering its rare but it does happen - I have the clip to prove it! I honestly can't comprehend how there isn't a noticeable difference between a 20ms host and a 100+ ms host. The game is nearly unplayable at those higher pings, I mean you practically have to be twice as good as the opponent to win at that level. As I've said time & time again the goal of the router is ONLY to minimise ping and I'm sure you can ask any game developer in the world a lower ping means better game experience. In fact we changed the strap line from KILL LAG to DOMINATE LAG because we thought the former might be taken literally and which is impossible on the Internet. The word dominate actually means control, so that's the goal of the product to minimise latency. Again I think its as subjective as taste, at the same low ping some people seem to love AW others don't I think its just a matter of personal taste. Anyway I hope this didn't come off combative, I'm just saying from a network point of view I think(I would though) that is performing its duties excellently for most people, specifically minimising ping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A7Legit Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 In fact we changed the strap line from KILL LAG to DOMINATE LAG because we thought the former might be taken literally and which is impossible on the Internet. The word dominate actually means control, so that's the goal of the product to minimise latency. It indeed dominates lag and let's us kill the enemy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewslash Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think it the game your playing that has issues , it not a bad game , infact when playing well , for me, its the most enjoyable incarnation of the franchise I've played for a couple of years It feels like for me , once i do get into good lobby it somehow recognises that i have a great ping to host and adds lag compensation to my connection ??? The netduma does exactly what it was designed to do , i only have a xbox one so can't speak for the older titles in the series grin and bare it till november and see what the next instalment is like I was playing with this connection yesterday and still go loads of BS deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartanogc Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I"ve had the Duma for only 5 days but I can see a huge difference in Destiny MP, as a matter of fact I had stopped playing Destiny MP because of the lag in the game. My friends have noticed the difference in games that I am the party leader, we will still have some lag games but overall I am enjoying the MP experience again thanks to this router. My best friend thought I was crazy for paying this much for a router but after playing in my lobby the last couple of days now is considering buying one, as a matter of fact he was texting me to get online last night because the lag in Destiny was absurd. Last thing before I take off to work the guys at Duma support are absolutely the best customer support of any product I have purchased. Thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma_Iain Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Glad you're enjoying it Spartan. We will be doing further improvements for Destiny literally in the coming days(today or tomorrow hopefully) so you should see a big difference! We will announce a thread when we do so keep a look out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ca11mecowboy Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Puppet, I had my ISP out because I had 1 internet diagnostic that was less than exceptional. Iain suggested that I call my ISP; if you're interested that post is located here: http://forum.netduma.com/topic/1011-att-u-verse-issue/ The short version of the story is that they replaced the node out front and upgraded my router. They also call me once a week to make sure that everything has settled down. I have AT&T uverse Gigapower. My up and down speeds are consistently 800Mbps or higher. I don't have many users and from what I've been told on this forum, I've got more than enough bandwidth to handle my traffic. I've gotten some good insight on how to best manage internal congestion here: http://forum.netduma.com/topic/1179-gigabit-ethernet-with-slower-hardware-and-necessity-of-qos/ I don't think it's an issue of internal congestion anyway. But I'm willing to try anything. I've tried many different setting combinations including moving home location, throttling my connection, maximizing connection, and this crazy technique that helped me get P2P hosts instead of dedis(which worked for a couple days, but now I can't get a full lobby). I have found that adjusting the congestion sliders from match to match seems to smooth things a little; but that's trial and error every single time. It feels more like I'm playing the router than I am the game. Iain, I don't think you're being combative. As a matter of fact, I think you are and have been more than reasonable with me and everyone else who posts here. I probably would have taken this thread down if I were you... I get that lag is subjective, but the lag I experience seems unrelated to ping. I'm not just talking about bad deaths or hit detection or bullet registration. I'm talking about not knowing where I actually am on the map. I'm missing jumps; getting stuck on doorways and stairs...my timing is so completely off. Every time I think I've got my settings dialed in, everything reverts to awful the next day. (I have an el gato, I could put some videos together to show what I'm talking about; but I'm not sure that would solve the problem or help to diagnose it. I can't capture both the game play and the ping graph at the same time; so, how would that be any different than what I'm explaining here?) The issue has to be the game (yes, it's AW). But I want to play the current title. That's where the majority of the players are playing. The truth is that I was so fed up that I put the game down before Christmas because the lag was so bad. Then I heard about the NetDuma from SimJC on youtube. I replaced my Asus 900 (Tomato firmware) with the R1 and hoped for the best. If any of this is useful in providing a recommendation, I'm interested in your feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma_Iain Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Hi cowboy, In terms of optimising your connection this article should be very informative: http://wiki.netduma.com/doku.php?id=dominate_lag_using_the_netduma_r1 For me to help diagnose ping please post the info in this thread: http://forum.netduma.com/topic/1241-lag-support/ However really what I want to see is your in game ping graphs. I'd like to see typical ones, from there I can let you know how to use the router to optimise if possible. If not it could be other non network releated things causing the lag as mentioned in the article for example controller firmware, monitor lag, etc But I'm here to help mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Quick question What game are you playing , on what platform and most important what game mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ca11mecowboy Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Advanced Warfare on Xbox One. I play everything...mostly solo, but I prefer mosh pit, TDM and Ground War. I'll post some in game ping graphs, but I can assure you they will be less than 40ms and very stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltr7 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I heard a theory the other day that got me thinking, I'm not saying that it's true but this basically sums it up. If you consider the goal of said game companies is to make as much money as possible, they need to appeal to a growing changing market and pull in new customers. The best form of any marketing is word of mouth, so his theory is said software companies could be inducing random lag into the game as to equal out the playing field so to speak. If little Jimmy can pick up the game and out of no where get a warbird, he's going to go to school and tell all his friends about it being the best game ever even if he gets owned the rest of the night it's enough for him. Now us experienced players are not as happy with this type of game play, but realistically we are the smaller fading part of the gaming population so what does we think really matter? Now keep in mind this is just a THEORY, but if you look at the fact that the matchmaking system is in a sense broken ie reverse boosting wouldn't work if it wasn't imo, it does in a sense fit the bill as far as what most of what everyone has a problem with, in game timing weather it's bullet registration, getting caught on doorways, or just plain feel like the whole game is just "off a little" timing wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I heard a theory the other day that got me thinking, I'm not saying that it's true but this basically sums it up. If you consider the goal of said game companies is to make as much money as possible, they need to appeal to a growing changing market and pull in new customers. The best form of any marketing is word of mouth, so his theory is said software companies could be inducing random lag into the game as to equal out the playing field so to speak. If little Jimmy can pick up the game and out of no where get a warbird, he's going to go to school and tell all his friends about it being the best game ever even if he gets owned the rest of the night it's enough for him. Now us experienced players are not as happy with this type of game play, but realistically we are the smaller fading part of the gaming population so what does we think really matter? Now keep in mind this is just a THEORY, but if you look at the fact that the matchmaking system is in a sense broken ie reverse boosting wouldn't work if it wasn't imo, it does in a sense fit the bill as far as what most of what everyone has a problem with, in game timing weather it's bullet registration, getting caught on doorways, or just plain feel like the whole game is just "off a little" timing wise. no ...just NO No sane company would ever do such a thing, with respect to dobbins his tinfoil hat theory got him a lot of views and its believable as he uses the fact people could relate to what he says to whats on screen . It the is it a ufo as i want to believe in ufos or just a weather balloon scenerio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
II Z IE IR O II Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 The only people that should be complaining about lag here in the US is us Hawaii people! DAM! We're located in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and the closest dedicated server we get connected is about 3000+ miles away. As far as lag goes, I really don't see any and we play on 70+ms ping! I guess I've adapted to playing COD with high ping and can actually enjoy the game since getting the R1. But like they say, "To each his own" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ca11mecowboy Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 I've seen that video too. That kid is entertaining to be sure... Still if my ping to the host (dedicated server) is the primary cause or eliminator of lag; why is my experience so awful regardless of ping? Call me whiney if you want... Look, I know lag is subjective; but I guarantee if you played on my setup you'd agree that something is way off. I dont believe I'm dealing with confirmation bias either. When I play blops 2 or even aw p2p and have low ping; I've gotten decently consistent gameplay. It's just not the case with aw. And that's the point; I bought the r1 specifically to combat the lag on the newest title...I have made the investments in Internet, hardware (I have a 2ms gaming monitor) and eliminated the variables. I wanted to dominate lag...not bi**h and moan on a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elikenui Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think if you accept that AW's netcode is not "optimal" (to put it nicely), then you can come to terms with it's shortcomings. There isn't anything we can do about it, it just runs wonky and you get some good games and some bad games and a lot of "WTF?" moments. It's just how AW is and unless Sledgehammer changes the code, it's always going to run like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I've noticed that if my exo-movement is crisp and solid I will have a good game. When it starts not double jumping or boosting the game goes to crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 That's a well thought out and obviously well researched opinion cowboy. I can almost feel your disappointment. I am sorry to hear that your experience hasn't been any better, as I have seen great improvement on my game of choice, but it isn't AW. I should play it some more and see if I notice any improvement, but honestly I just didn't like the game out of the box. I think, to be honestly fair, some of us are using the router to play older variations that have gone through a full season of patches. Nerfs, buffs, patches upon patches, and by about August each year, the game seems to be "solid". All that time from launch to that last useful patch can be frustrating as all hell. I broke two controllers in the first few months after having picked up a CoD (Blops II) in early Feb and began playing it damn near every night trying to "get gud kid". I honestly would have tried ANYTHING to give me a chance to fight what I consider an even battle online. Coming from Rainbow Six and later Vegas, on PC where we used to LAN almost every weekend, online FPS gaming at the current level was a soul crushing experience. I feel for you man, I have been there and been left scratching my head trying to figure out what else I can do. As for AW, I just don't know if this game was tested against the use cases we are seeing now. All that fast, jittery movement is going to cause problems in my mind. I refuse to believe they were testing all those fast and fancy movements in a real world situation, separated by thousands of miles of real world plant as opposed to some sort of electronic buffering or dampening to "simulate" the experience in a multi-million dollar test lab. I'm sorry to hear your experience was not as expected. I guess on the bright side there is a market for the Duma as others are still clamoring to give it a go for their game of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ca11mecowboy Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 Here's my in game pings. Played AW Ground War Bandwidth at 120/120. 70/70 Reactive. Geo at about 900km PA at 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma_Iain Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yeah cowboy I'm afraid those ping's look really good. There is the odd spike in the third picture but that is pretty normal for the Internet. There is not much more you can do in terms of optimising your connection. The game should be playing very smooth, only other things that should affect lag are: Wifi - please use wired for the gaming device Screen lag - Please look at our lag link on setting up your TV for high frame rates Controller lag - Make sure your controller has the latest firmware, there is a link in the anti-lag tutorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.