Packet loss while downloading

[JimDuff]

Hi,

 

I get packet loss and lag issues if I am playing a game while downloading something. It doesn't matter how much I throttle the download, or how much a prioritize the gaming traffic, the packet loss always exists.

I thought this router was meant to handle that?

[Netduma Fraser]

What is your exact physical setup, i.e. what is the model of the modem/router the R2 is connected to? Are ALL devices connected to the R2? Can you provide a screenshot of your QoS Settings and a completed Connection Benchmark test please?

[JimDuff]

My setup is PlusNet hub as modem/router. Everything is going through the R2.

 

Maybe the Modem is just terrible?

 

 

[Netduma Fraser]

Everything looks pretty good there, where are you measuring the packet loss exactly? Have you put the R2 WAN IP in the hub DMZ? 

[JimDuff]

Yes the Wan IP is in the Hub DMZ. The packet loss shows up on in-game network indicators. Example of games are Warzone and Battlefield.

[Netduma Liam]

2 hours ago, JimDuff said:

Yes the Wan IP is in the Hub DMZ. The packet loss shows up on in-game network indicators. Example of games are Warzone and Battlefield.

I can see you've got two rules enabled that may overlap, could you please disable one of them and see if the in-game experience improves at all?

[JimDuff]

Are we talking about the traffic priority? I only added the separate Battlefield one when I was experiencing these problems, hoping it would help. But it made no difference.

[Netduma Liam]

49 minutes ago, JimDuff said:

Are we talking about the traffic priority? I only added the separate Battlefield one when I was experiencing these problems, hoping it would help. But it made no difference.

Yes - Traffic prioritisation, my apologies. Did you test it with DumaOS Classified games also enabled? If so, could you give it a quick test with that disabled such that the rule you've added yourself is the only active rule.

[JimDuff]

17 minutes ago, Netduma Liam said:

Yes - Traffic prioritisation, my apologies. Did you test it with DumaOS Classified games also enabled? If so, could you give it a quick test with that disabled such that the rule you've added yourself is the only active rule.

Unfortunately I already did that when I was trying the new rule out.

[Netduma Liam]

17 hours ago, JimDuff said:

Unfortunately I already did that when I was trying the new rule out.

Thanks for letting me know!

When you were downloading something, was this download on the PC you were also gaming on or was it on a seperate device?

Did you see a drop in the download speed of whatever you were downloading while gaming compared to when no priority traffic was detected? 

Which Battlefield were you playing specifically? Perhaps we may be able to improve this if we add a rule prioritising the specific ports.

 

[JimDuff]

56 minutes ago, Netduma Liam said:

Thanks for letting me know!

When you were downloading something, was this download on the PC you were also gaming on or was it on a seperate device?

Did you see a drop in the download speed of whatever you were downloading while gaming compared to when no priority traffic was detected? 

Which Battlefield were you playing specifically? Perhaps we may be able to improve this if we add a rule prioritising the specific ports.

 

I was downloading on the same PC yeah, it was a game update on Battlenet.

The download speed was throttled by setting in Battlenet. But I think the router was also limiting the download speed.

I was playing Battlefield V.

[Netduma Fraser]

This kind of makes sense, as it is all happening on one device. Next time you try it, make a TP rule and just select the Games Console service and see whether it helps

[JimDuff]

On 5/11/2021 at 3:43 PM, Netduma Fraser said:

This kind of makes sense, as it is all happening on one device. Next time you try it, make a TP rule and just select the Games Console service and see whether it helps

But why is my connection to the Battlefield server struggling, when I have the more than enough bandwidth to play the game? I throttled the download so it was taking up around a third of my bandwidth, but still my connection to the game was struggling.

[Netduma Fraser]

Downloads will run as fast as they can regardless of how much bandwidth you have so it's pushing out the game bandwidth so the solution here has to be using TP or not playing when downloading - only when on the same device

[JimDuff]

4 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Downloads will run as fast as they can regardless of how much bandwidth you have so it's pushing out the game bandwidth so the solution here has to be using TP or not playing when downloading - only when on the same device

I will try that, but I thought bandwidth circle chart meant that so much bandwidth would be ultimately reserved for gaming? Or is it classing the Battlenet download as 'Gaming' also?

[Netduma Fraser]

39 minutes ago, JimDuff said:

I will try that, but I thought bandwidth circle chart meant that so much bandwidth would be ultimately reserved for gaming? Or is it classing the Battlenet download as 'Gaming' also?

As you will have share excess on by default it whatever needs more bandwidth will take it assuming other devices/services do not need it, in this case gaming uses barely any hence why the download can run as fast as possible. I don't usually suggest disabling share excess as it can leave devices with not enough

[JimDuff]

13 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

As you will have share excess on by default it whatever needs more bandwidth will take it assuming other devices/services do not need it, in this case gaming uses barely any hence why the download can run as fast as possible. I don't usually suggest disabling share excess as it can leave devices with not enough

I was playing with it on and off, I seem to have got the best results with it off.

But doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of anti-buffer bloat and the system itself? If services can take bandwidth from services (gaming) which I have allocated an amount for, then the whole thing is surely pointless? With the share excess option on, this then renders the whole congestion set up void? Or is this just the case for one device, and works much better with separate devices?

I'm also not understanding the idea that the download runs as fast as possible, as I was restricting the download within the Battlenet app itself. I restricted the download to about 1/4 of my internet speed but was still getting packet loss in the game. I had adequate bandwidth for the game, so clearly the anti-bufferbloat was not working, as download traffic was causing gaming packets to queue.

[Netduma Liam]

1 hour ago, JimDuff said:

I was playing with it on and off, I seem to have got the best results with it off.

But doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of anti-buffer bloat and the system itself? If services can take bandwidth from services (gaming) which I have allocated an amount for, then the whole thing is surely pointless? With the share excess option on, this then renders the whole congestion set up void? Or is this just the case for one device, and works much better with separate devices?

I'm also not understanding the idea that the download runs as fast as possible, as I was restricting the download within the Battlenet app itself. I restricted the download to about 1/4 of my internet speed but was still getting packet loss in the game. I had adequate bandwidth for the game, so clearly the anti-bufferbloat was not working, as download traffic was causing gaming packets to queue.

Anti Buffer-Bloat, or Congestion Control as it's known, is different from Bandwidth Allocation. Congestion Control limits your bandwidth in order to shift the queue of traffic from somewhere upstream to the R2, this means it can then control this traffic and choose which takes priority. Bandwidth allocation allows you to allocate more/less bandwidth to a device depending on it's needs, however if it's allocated more than it needs (which gaming devices often are) it can then share the rest of that bandwidth with other devices if needed. The issue with downloads is that they often just use as much as they can possibly get.

Was this tested after adding the below suggestion from Fraser?

On 5/11/2021 at 3:43 PM, Netduma Fraser said:

Next time you try it, make a TP rule and just select the Games Console service and see whether it helps

 

[JimDuff]

On 5/13/2021 at 12:27 PM, Netduma Liam said:

Anti Buffer-Bloat, or Congestion Control as it's known, is different from Bandwidth Allocation. Congestion Control limits your bandwidth in order to shift the queue of traffic from somewhere upstream to the R2, this means it can then control this traffic and choose which takes priority. Bandwidth allocation allows you to allocate more/less bandwidth to a device depending on it's needs, however if it's allocated more than it needs (which gaming devices often are) it can then share the rest of that bandwidth with other devices if needed. The issue with downloads is that they often just use as much as they can possibly get.

Was this tested after adding the below suggestion from Fraser?

 

I haven't had the opportunity to test this with the new TP rule yet.

[Netduma Fraser]

Let us know how you get on when you're able to