petjev Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hi all, finally my R1 arrived today. I asked the question before and the assumption was made this would not cause any issues. But I run both XBone and PS4 (not simultaneous) but still. My PS4 has nice open NAT on CoD AW but my XBone gets strict NAT Any thing you guys ca ndo to assist on this? Thanks, Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma Fraser Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hello petjev! Glad to see your R1 has arrived Sorry that you're experiencing issues, I will try to help as best I can. Are both consoles connected via ethernet cable or wireless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petjev Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hey, Both consoles are connected via wire. Wireless is disabled on the R1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma Fraser Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 We do have a potential solution that's a bit tricky, can you come on the chat so we can walk you through it? http://forum.netduma.com/chat/ Then we'll post back here with the results. We don't think both NATs can be open when both consoles are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petjev Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'll get back on this in a bit... about to head out.. usually it's just one or the other on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma_Iain Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hi Petjev, We've spokend before in another thread its obvious you know you way around the network stack I had not actually thought about running xbox and playstation togther before. So I just gave it some thought, so some side notes first: The xbox and playstation actually share some ports, this is the root of the problem If you have two xbox's or two playstation's(I haven't tested multi PlayStation) I think they're smart enough to communicate with each other using UPnP and adapt. But it seems like they're not smart enough to communicate with different consoles. So the solution I propose is disable UPnP. Then assign static IP to your xbox and playstation. Then port-forward to them with the overlaps. Then when your playing on playsation for example, you disable port forwarding rules for xbox and enable them for playstaion and vice versa when you play on xbox. Does that make sense? Anyway I can run you through it in the chat room when you have time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decimalator Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I don't have my Netduma yet, so I don't know if this helps or not, but at least with some games like Call of Duty that support UPnP I have been able to get multiple PS4s to both have Open NAT with a Linux based router/firewall, but only if UPnP does all of the port opening. If one system has UDP/3074 opened manually the UPnP daemon (linux-igd in my case) doesn't know about it and iptables just blindly adds the rule (at least with my elderly Fedora 18 system). Newer versions might be smarter about it. I haven't done any testing in Advanced Warfare but I'm getting Open on both my PS4s. Another thing to look for is in the way the consoles detect the availability of UPnP. At least for the PS4 the system makes a request to forward a certain port (I forget which one, I can check if it helps) and if that request succeeds it enables UPnP. If that request fails, I would assume there is a system-level flag somewhere that disables UPnP. I'm not a PS4 dev, but I imagine there is a network API where a game will query the availability of UPnP. The PS3 has a toggle for enabling and disabling UPnP. Another trick I found that helps is that running an Internet Connection Test from the Settings for the PS4 would disconnect the PS4 completely from the network and force it to re-connect and re-detect UPnP availability. At one point when UPnP was being less helpful, forcing it to do that Internet Connection Test would do something at the system level that made it work in Ghosts. I don't have any Xbox hardware to test with, but assuming it follows the standards (yeah right, it's Microsoft) it should theoretically behave the same. Once my Netduma shows up and I get my consoles all (hopefully) working I can help be a guinea pig or give you guys my configs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBen Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I too have two Xbox one's in my home. With my current router (fritzbox) both xbox have an open NAT when checking on the consoles it self, but in cod:aw they both are being listed at NAT type moderate. I had no problems at all playing (beside the horrible lag) and a friend with an xbox one has exactly the same. Maybe something to keep in mind (who to trust ?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma_Iain Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Thanks decimalator, that's really informative. Its sounds like playstation works in similar manner to the Xbox. I think the issue may have been the geo-filter, but I'm waiting to get a response from OP. Then I'll post back here. Anyone reading rest assured your NAT is still open. The geo-filter just confuses the NAT testing system. You can prove this easily by increasing your distance to include the NAT testing server in the middle of the USA. BigBen hopefully our routers UPnP solves that. The issue arises on Xbox when you only port forward 3074, the dashboard then says open but game says moderate I believe. If you add 3075-3076 then CoD reports Open NAT. Our router should do that for you, if you're behind a modem or router in modem mode. If not our router does its best to do it for you, but if not you may have to manually port forward on your other router. We can help though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathoftank Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Hi Petjev, We've spokend before in another thread its obvious you know you way around the network stack I had not actually thought about running xbox and playstation togther before. So I just gave it some thought, so some side notes first: The xbox and playstation actually share some ports, this is the root of the problem If you have two xbox's or two playstation's(I haven't tested multi PlayStation) I think they're smart enough to communicate with each other using UPnP and adapt. But it seems like they're not smart enough to communicate with different consoles. So the solution I propose is disable UPnP. Then assign static IP to your xbox and playstation. Then port-forward to them with the overlaps. Then when your playing on playsation for example, you disable port forwarding rules for xbox and enable them for playstaion and vice versa when you play on xbox. Does that make sense? Anyway I can run you through it in the chat room when you have time I haven't received my R1 yet, but with my current setup I have open nat playing on the x1 while my brother is also playing with an open nat on ps4. I have UPNP enabled, and actually I have ports forwarded as well to both consoles, with the overlapping ports just assigned to the x1. This is the same for when we are both on ps4s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma_Iain Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Thanks for purchasing and for the info, I think it may have been a red herring. The NAT was open but the geo-filter was tricking the device. When you get your R1 please let me know what the NAT is for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petjev Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 ok.. quick update.. So I disabled the geo filter. Seemed to have the XBox network test thingy fixed. Then disabled / enabled uPnP to flush the tables. XBox now has Moderate so still not open Next rebooted the router and xbox (power off / power on) still no luck tried to overlapping NAT rules.. but then I get this error: Rule already exists that covers those ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petjev Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 and a further update... kinda made a boo boo... one of my other networking devices also had uPnP enabled.. So the xbox actually did some uPnP on one device.. and some on the R1... after addressing that is seems the 2 are happy on the same R1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma Fraser Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 and a further update... kinda made a boo boo... one of my other networking devices also had uPnP enabled.. So the xbox actually did some uPnP on one device.. and some on the R1... after addressing that is seems the 2 are happy on the same R1 Thats excellent, so its all sorted for you then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathoftank Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Thats excellent, so its all sorted for you then? So does this mean he was able to get a simultaneous open nat on both ps4 and x1? I'm quite curious because I actually have 2 ps4 and 1 xbox one, and often times while I play x1 or ps4 my brother is on the other ps4. I'm hoping there won't be any nat issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma_Iain Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I believe so, it sounds like they do actually communicate correctly and open the right ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petjev Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 correct.. the both devices play nicely with eachother.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roads Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Port 80 needs to be open on both ONE and PS4. There are routers that can forward to two IP-s, can the Netduma made to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decimalator Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Port 80 needs to be open on both ONE and PS4. There are routers that can forward to two IP-s, can the Netduma made to do so? I'm assuming you mean outbound port 80. I've never seen anything requiring connectivity from the Internet to a console on port 80. outbound is easy enough, most devices allow all outbound traffic by default so any device can connect to a remote web service. The router knows which port on console A made the connection to port 80, so it returns data back to console A on that same ephemeral port. That layer of the TCP/IP stack deals in IP and port pairs, so a connection from say 192.168.1.1:27000 to 111.222.333.444:80 is always going to come back to that originating IP and port, for most purposes. When the console makes an outbound connection it uses a pseudo random local port number (27000 in that example), which will be the port number that the router knows to forward any responses back to. tl;dr unless you're blocking outbound port 80, outbound 80 will work with any device on the network I don't have any Xbox, but the PSN mostly uses port 443 (HTTPS) for the various PSN communication like logins. To avoid encryption overhead they might be using plain HTTP for anything not important like images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roads Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Thanks I feel good now about port 80. Thanks for the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strodoggydog Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi there, I used to run an xbox and ps3 on the same network, and got an Open NAT on both by assigning them the same IP, and forwarding all ports required for both consoles. Of course, I could only run one console at a time, but this wasn't a problem. However, the ports for PS3 kept changing (i.e. BOII used additional ports to those in MW3) so I went for the less secure (but easier) approach of assigning both consoles the static IP that was in the DMZ setting. Does the netduma router itself have a DMZ setting? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma_Iain Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 No strodoggydog we don't have DMZ but we have UPnP that will open both of them for you simultaneously without doing anything. PS This isn't something amazing we've done, many routers have this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strodoggydog Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 That is handy. My two previous routers had UPnP, but I could never get an Open NAT by just enabling this alone. I either had to port forward, or use the DMZ. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Netduma_Iain Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think we've got quite a few people who have got it working fine so should work for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petjev Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 have to agree, where my previous router experience also was bad.. with the R1 my NAT is essentially always open.. even when having multiple consoles in the same network.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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