Wifi Causing Latency?

[MikeTHIS]

I'll add whatever I need to this thread when I get home, but I noticed something on my pingplotter last night.

 

I've been suffering from some latency as of late and have been trying to track it down - I'm pretty sure it's my modem for the most part (Arris with the known Puma issue).

 

Pingplotter has a new scan network feature that lists all connected devices, I noticed my wifi devices were causing some latency while they're not really using any bandwidth.

 

To test, I shut wifi off and my ping dropped and the spikes calmed down.

 

I've got another router I'm going to use as an access point behind the Duma to see if it stops (also to make it easy to control the wireless devices.

 

My consoles are wired, my speed is 120/30 - I have reactive set, turbo clicked, CC I'll play around with but I notice sometimes it affects latency. I reset distribution so they're all even, but I'll typically lower the wireless devices. I also have uPNP disabled, IPv6 disabled and port forward to my main console, but I think I'll go back to uPNP because my second console suffers from moderate nat issues. I have hyperlane set for the main console as well. I'm on the latest firmware (g).

 

My setup is Modem - Duma, it's not a combo router modem just a straight modem with VoIP.

 

Even when I get great DSL report numbers, I still feel like I suffer from instadeath or that I'm significantly behind in the game.

 

Not sure what else to try at this point, but wanted to mention this wifi issue in case it's an actual issue.

 

I'm sure I missed some stuff, and like I said 99% of this I blame my modem (signals are good there too).

 

Oh, lastly - when I'm in a party with the second console with the moderate NAT, THAT one plays way better and he'll even ask my why I'm unable to play normally. Just odd.

 

I'm open to suggestions and criticism. I've been here since the beginning and love to diagnose problems so it's not really a big deal to me.

 

Edit: also noticed that no matter what - the ping page on the Duma shows the ping all over the place. I very rarely see anything smooth or even relatively smooth like I see other folks show.

 

I have my home set on the east coast (NY) radius is 400 miles and PA at 0, I may have strict on I would have to look tonight.

[ColonicBoom]

I'll add whatever I need to this thread when I get home, but I noticed something on my pingplotter last night.

 

I've been suffering from some latency as of late and have been trying to track it down - I'm pretty sure it's my modem for the most part (Arris with the known Puma issue).

 

Pingplotter has a new scan network feature that lists all connected devices, I noticed my wifi devices were causing some latency while they're not really using any bandwidth.

 

To test, I shut wifi off and my ping dropped and the spikes calmed down.

 

I've got another router I'm going to use as an access point behind the Duma to see if it stops (also to make it easy to control the wireless devices.

 

My consoles are wired, my speed is 120/30 - I have reactive set, turbo clicked, CC I'll play around with but I notice sometimes it affects latency. I reset distribution so they're all even, but I'll typically lower the wireless devices. I also have uPNP disabled, IPv6 disabled and port forward to my main console, but I think I'll go back to uPNP because my second console suffers from moderate nat issues. I have hyperlane set for the main console as well. I'm on the latest firmware (g).

 

My setup is Modem - Duma, it's not a combo router modem just a straight modem with VoIP.

 

Even when I get great DSL report numbers, I still feel like I suffer from instadeath or that I'm significantly behind in the game.

 

Not sure what else to try at this point, but wanted to mention this wifi issue in case it's an actual issue.

 

I'm sure I missed some stuff, and like I said 99% of this I blame my modem (signals are good there too).

 

Oh, lastly - when I'm in a party with the second console with the moderate NAT, THAT one plays way better and he'll even ask my why I'm unable to play normally. Just odd.

 

I'm open to suggestions and criticism. I've been here since the beginning and love to diagnose problems so it's not really a big deal to me.

 

Edit: also noticed that no matter what - the ping page on the Duma shows the ping all over the place. I very rarely see anything smooth or even relatively smooth like I see other folks show.

 

I have my home set on the east coast (NY) radius is 400 miles and PA at 0, I may have strict on I would have to look tonight.

 

Have you tested with PP over ethernet straight to your modem since this started to occur? To see if your line is behaving itself.

 

I haven't tried any new features on PP lately (before I say anything dumb), can you post up a screenshot(s) of the graph(s) that shows the additional latency created by wifi please? And you're testing this with congestion control at 70/70 or thereabouts to suppress these spikes?

 

I know that on Mac, if I click the wifi/network symbol in the top right of my screen, it causes some kind of surge that spikes my ping.

Even when testing over ethernet and not actually doing anything except running a PP plot. I guess it just sends out some kind of chunky beacon, or some other process, saying "look at me, I'm here and talking to your network" that interrupts it by 100/200ms or more on the Mac side. It does the same thing testing with 'Terminal' (command line).

 

Can you post up a screenshot of the Duma ping being all over the place too please?

Is your computer attached to the Duma over ethernet when you're noticing the Duma ping being all over the place? (you mean to the host on the Geo page right?)

 

NAT issues I'll stay away from, as I only have one console and it's not a PS4 so there are a lot of other people that are a lot better qualified to respond to that.

[MikeTHIS]

Have you tested with PP over ethernet straight to your modem since this started to occur? To see if your line is behaving itself.

 

I haven't tried any new features on PP lately (before I say anything dumb), can you post up a screenshot(s) of the graph(s) that shows the additional latency created by wifi please? And you're testing this with congestion control at 70/70 or thereabouts to suppress these spikes?

 

I know that on Mac, if I click the wifi/network symbol in the top right of my screen, it causes some kind of surge that spikes my ping.

Even when testing over ethernet and not actually doing anything except running a PP plot. I guess it just sends out some kind of chunky beacon, or some other process, saying "look at me, I'm here and talking to your network" that interrupts it by 100/200ms or more on the Mac side. It does the same thing testing with 'Terminal' (command line).

 

Can you post up a screenshot of the Duma ping being all over the place too please?

Is your computer attached to the Duma over ethernet when you're noticing the Duma ping being all over the place? (you mean to the host on the Geo page right?)

 

NAT issues I'll stay away from, as I only have one console and it's not a PS4 so there are a lot of other people that are a lot better qualified to respond to that.

I'll post some caps tonight.

 

I test over Ethernet to my MBP, which my XB1 and other stuff connects through my switch that's wired into my Duma. All brand new cables (I upgraded to 6e)

 

I have the Duma page and PP open side by side on my laptop as I game (I feel like a pilot sometimes lol) and glance at the pings when something funky happens.

 

And yes, host on the Duma page is the ping I'm referencing. If I see high "peers" I try to block them if I can.

 

edit: also to add, this new feature of PP shows my MBP with a low ping (.05ms) the Duma low (.07) and the wifi with higher pings (usually iPhone and iPad shown at 500-2300ms!!) that's what made me try switching it off to check the difference.

[ColonicBoom]

I'll post some caps tonight.

 

I test over Ethernet to my MBP, which my XB1 and other stuff connects through my switch that's wired into my Duma. All brand new cables (I upgraded to 6e)

 

I have the Duma page and PP open side by side on my laptop as I game (I feel like a pilot sometimes lol) and glance at the pings when something funky happens.

 

And yes, host on the Duma page is the ping I'm referencing. If I see high "peers" I try to block them if I can.

 

edit: also to add, this new feature of PP shows my MBP with a low ping (.05ms) the Duma low (.07) and the wifi with higher pings (usually iPhone and iPad shown at 500-2300ms!!) that's what made me try switching it off to check the difference.

 

You've got virtually an identical setup to me then, down to an extra switch (AP for me) and the same laptop.

 

And you're right, I've tried 'piloting' my way through with all that open at the same time but gets me killed plenty !

 

I'm about to test some other stuff anyway so I'll stick PP + the Geo page on and see what happens while I get pwned 

 

...will report back later.

 

edit - in case someone who is better with network setups can spot an obvious difference in yours and mine that could help:

 

My Xbox and Access Point are wired to the Netduma and a spare third ethernet is dangling for when I need to test.

Wifi is disabled completely on the Netduma.

The wireless AP has a few other less frequently used devices wired to it.

[ColonicBoom]

also to add, this new feature of PP shows my MBP with a low ping (.05ms) the Duma low (.07) and the wifi with higher pings (usually iPhone and iPad shown at 500-2300ms!!) that's what made me try switching it off to check the difference.

 

This bit, I'm not following...

 

My PP only shows my Netduma and then any hops on the way to the destination. It doesn't even show my wireless AP before the Netduma, never mind any devices.

Is there an option that I need to activate somewhere?

[MikeTHIS]

This bit, I'm not following...

 

My PP only shows my Netduma and then any hops on the way to the destination. It doesn't even show my wireless AP before the Netduma, never mind any devices.

Is there an option that I need to activate somewhere?

Go up to tools, scan network. It'll open a pop up and list ALL network devices, their IP/MAC and ping.

 

It was a recent update (I have a paid version)

[ColonicBoom]

I can't even see a 'Tools' section or dropdown on mine...

Have you got the paid version or am I just being thick?

 

edit - You already answered my question - Doh!

 

Ok, so I can't check that bit but I can still look into the other bits.

Can you stick up the caps you were going to get so we can have a look?

[MikeTHIS]

double post

[MikeTHIS]

Ok sorry for the delay. Had company last night.
 
Here is my current local devices chart from PP, and the ping plotter after I turned wifi off (left of the gray space) and when I turned it back on.

[MikeTHIS]

I have to run out a for a bit, but ill post a few more caps of gameplay when I get back.

[ColonicBoom]

Can you run a plot to something else, like Twitter or something else that's big and relatively local, just to rule out that PP server.

 

Those devices that have a ping over a second, are they awake or could that just be some kind of beacon interval? I've no idea why they would be pinging so slowly.

[MikeTHIS]

Can you run a plot to something else, like Twitter or something else that's big and relatively local, just to rule out that PP server.

 

Those devices that have a ping over a second, are they awake or could that just be some kind of beacon interval? I've no idea why they would be pinging so slowly.

Pinging twitter while I'm out, will post when I get back.

[MikeTHIS]

Here's the twitter ping

 

I also typically ping xbox.com

 

 

[ColonicBoom]

That's not too pretty.

Have you got a plot without the Netduma? Straight from the isp hub/modem over ethernet.

[MikeTHIS]

Ok, so here is the rest of the stuff you asked for. I also finally got around to installing the second router behind the netduma to use as an access point. I don't have a PP graph of the latency drop off before and after the wifi was turned off this time, but it's a little better.

 

I did however wire my MBP directly to the modem and here are the results. You'll see the ping spikes to the left of the 100% loss as the routers connected, to the right straight to the modem. There is a giant spike right when I connected and some larger spikes continue for the duration of the test. I also included a speed result wired straight to the modem, with all the bloat and whatnot.

 

Clearly, this is on my modem side at this point. At the very least, I can better regulate my wireless devices through the AP easier than before and my congestion flower is much easier to deal with.

 

 

[MikeTHIS]

Just an update, not sure if it's placebo or not - but playing all day yesterday (even with the second Xbox at home in a party) we both played significantly better than we have now that I put all wifi devices on the access point router.

 

I wanted them all on a subnet, access point complaining about double NAT, but I don't game on wifi so it works fine in this case.

 

I've got my CC sliders at 18% down and 30% up - this is what I've landed on to have optimal smooth DSLReport tests without getting choppy and A+ bloat.

 

My geo is also at 250 miles and 0ms

 

Curious to see what happens once my ISP pushes out a firmware fix for the Puma issue with my modem. But for now, things play fairly well.

[ColonicBoom]

Ok sorry for the delay. Had company last night.

 

Here is my current local devices chart from PP, and the ping plotter after I turned wifi off (left of the gray space) and when I turned it back on.

 

I think the wifi 'latency' is caused by these devices being 'asleep', so the delay is not really latency but rather it's some kind of communication interval or something.

I don't honestly know though so someone with more knowledge about this sort of thing would be helpful.

As I don't have a paid version of Ping Plotter I can't test any theories either.

 

When you turned wifi back on, one or more of the devices must be communicating with the router (anything from a phone update, YouTubing, web browsing).

The wifi just being 'on' shouldn't affect the graph if no communication is occurring.

Was congestion control set at this point?

[ColonicBoom]

What sort of modem (make+model) are you using by the way?

A lot of people have had issues with certain modems.

[ColonicBoom]

Here's the twitter ping

 

I also typically ping xbox.com

 

This looks very much like a PP plot of a 'bad line' unfortunately.

Having suffered with a shitty cable line for a long time before I changed to DSL, it looks almost identical.

[MikeTHIS]

Oh I'm 100% blaming my modem, as I referenced in the first post. I have an Arris 1602a, which is affected by the Puma chip issue.

 

Honestly, the wifi now being on an access point seems to have solved a little bit of what I was seeing - none of the connected devices were doing anything but being idle during the tests and my congestion control is almost always set because nobody does any heavy use other than YouTube on iPads (kids).

 

All this testing was when I was home alone lol

 

All in all, convinced my issue again is modem related but wanted to be 100% sure the wifi in the Duma wasn't causing issues for me or anyone else.

[ColonicBoom]

Ok, so here is the rest of the stuff you asked for. I also finally got around to installing the second router behind the netduma to use as an access point. I don't have a PP graph of the latency drop off before and after the wifi was turned off this time, but it's a little better.

 

I did however wire my MBP directly to the modem and here are the results. You'll see the ping spikes to the left of the 100% loss as the routers connected, to the right straight to the modem. There is a giant spike right when I connected and some larger spikes continue for the duration of the test. I also included a speed result wired straight to the modem, with all the bloat and whatnot.

 

Clearly, this is on my modem side at this point. At the very least, I can better regulate my wireless devices through the AP easier than before and my congestion flower is much easier to deal with.

 

Don't worry about the bufferbloat shown here, as you are connected straight to the modem there is no congestion control to suppress the spikes obviously.

 

I'm confused about what you're doing in this picture/test though, are you connecting the MBP to the modem and then mid-way through the test adding the Netduma and an additional Access Point router and then continuing the test over ethernet from the second router?

 

The device priority flower should be exactly the same if you're AP is working like mine is.

[ColonicBoom]

Oh I'm 100% blaming my modem, as I referenced in the first post. I have an Arris 1602a, which is affected by the Puma chip issue.

 

Honestly, the wifi now being on an access point seems to have solved a little bit of what I was seeing - none of the connected devices were doing anything but being idle during the tests and my congestion control is almost always set because nobody does any heavy use other than YouTube on iPads (kids).

 

All this testing was when I was home alone lol

 

All in all, convinced my issue again is modem related but wanted to be 100% sure the wifi in the Duma wasn't causing issues for me or anyone else.

 

There's definitely some jitter but not a huge amount like I used to get. I'm sure it's not the Duma though.

But if you have wifi enabled on both the Netduma and the Access Point at the same time you might have some funny wifi issues.

I disabled the wifi on my Netduma and just use the wifi from the access point to avoid any conflicts.

[MikeTHIS]

Don't worry about the bufferbloat shown here, as you are connected straight to the modem there is no congestion control to suppress the spikes obviously.

 

I'm confused about what you're doing in this picture/test though, are you connecting the MBP to the modem and then mid-way through the test adding the Netduma and an additional Access Point router and then continuing the test over ethernet from the second router?

 

The device priority flower should be exactly the same if you're AP is working like mine is.

To the left of the spike was the Duma, unplugged and wired modem direct to MBP. Sorry if that was unclear.

[MikeTHIS]

There's definitely some jitter but not a huge amount like I used to get. I'm sure it's not the Duma though.

But if you have wifi enabled on both the Netduma and the Access Point at the same time you might have some funny wifi issues.

I disabled the wifi on my Netduma and just use the wifi from the access point to avoid any conflicts.

My flower has ZERO wireless devices now as I added the access point with its own subnet, this way I can change one slider and limit all devices on the one IP that the Duma assigns the AP. Wireless on the Duma is now off, to clarify.