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CheckoutCoachCam

Traffic Prioritization Question

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I've been tampering with different traffic prio rules over the course of a few months. Three questions:

 

(1) Should download packets be prioritized more, less, or the same as upload packets? I know some things are the result of a placebo effect, but I feel as if download is more important here, and that lower download prioritization leads to the "my opponent saw me before I saw him" effect. This leads to my next question:

 

(2) How important is traffic prio, and should it be noticeable in-game (hit reg, shoot first die first, etc.)? Sometimes I wonder if this is the wrong setting to constantly tamper with to try to improve gameplay.

 

(3) Mostly what I see is that we should prioritize port 3074 udp (on ps4/5 at least). Can someone please explain how to set up this port correctly (source, destination)? I've been using source as 3074-3074, but the only destination range that seems to always light up is 1-65535. I've also seen people flip the source and destination ports. This stuff is over my head so any explanation is greatly appreciated!

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A lot of people say don’t prio tcp packets. Honestly I think this is false. 
 

try 1-65535 SRC

3074-56999

TCPUDP 

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1 hour ago, fiefo said:

A lot of people say don’t prio tcp packets. Honestly I think this is false. 
 

try 1-65535 SRC

3074-56999

TCPUDP 

When I do that, I cant throttle my connection anymore (something that actually seems to work). Have you tried throttling vs this traffic prio setup?

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I can only give my opinion on Download vs Upload.. When using TP one should see more Download Packets vs Upload being prioritized.. To me if your Upload packets are out numbering your Download there isnt something right.. One is always Downloading more when playing a game then Uploading.. And Downloading is just as important as Uploading when it comes to gaming..  Every game that performs the best for me always shows more Download.. When a game feels off for some odd reason my Upload starts to out number my Download.. At that point I just disable TP..

Usually one does only use UDP for prioritizing.. But that was back then.. With so many things changing TCP could become an important port now.. The question is what is the port number.. Its always best to pin point ports so one can prio only the important packets.. Ive never been a fan of running ranges.. Unless one knows the range pertains to only critical traffic..

The range that fiefo suggests seems to be a good range to try..

When I do wireshark captures I see port 443 always for a TCP.. But I dont feel it should be used.. As its primary use seems to be with https.. Like port 80 is for http..

Zippy..

 

 

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8 minutes ago, CheckoutCoachCam said:

When I do that, I cant throttle my connection anymore (something that actually seems to work). Have you tried throttling vs this traffic prio setup?

That might be because TP supersedes that..  But I would still think one should be able to throttle your connection.. It might be that TP supersedes CC/BufferBloat..

Fraser or Liam would know more on this..

You could try extending your range more.. Because I believe speed tests are done through TCP..

Zippy.

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Good advice above. In my opinion QoS is for ensuring a stable, lag free connection, it's not a switch on melt mode feature so if it's working well then really you shouldn't even notice it's doing anything - that's just my opinion. The range for the rule suggested is a decent rule to start with, it will supersede QoS but you shouldn't be using much bandwidth at all for it to prevent CC from throttling correctly. Can you post a screenshot of your entire QoS page please?

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1 hour ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Good advice above. In my opinion QoS is for ensuring a stable, lag free connection, it's not a switch on melt mode feature so if it's working well then really you shouldn't even notice it's doing anything - that's just my opinion. The range for the rule suggested is a decent rule to start with, it will supersede QoS but you shouldn't be using much bandwidth at all for it to prevent CC from throttling correctly. Can you post a screenshot of your entire QoS page please?

Morning Fraser! I have a question.. As you see more people using TCP in there TP is this normal? What are your thoughts? Put it this way do you guys at Netduma prioritize TCP ports for gaming? Im not talking about what works best for someone but more on the actual how/what one should prioritize.. All the years past I would only Prio UDP ports.. Even on my ASUS years back.. So why the change? Why would TCP now make a difference.. Again just your thoughts..And how one should do this..Not what works best because this isnt making sense..

Also if one starts to prioritize wide ranges with both UDP and TCP doesnt that change the scope of low bandwidth? Wouldnt that now become a more intense bandwidth consumption? And couldnt this over run TP and actually cause lag or even cause TP to become erratic? Can TP actually process wide ranges with both UDP and TCP efficiently? Like in more real time applications like gaming..

The above is basically pertaining to gaming fyi..

Thanks Fraser!

Zippy. 

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Morning Zippy!

To answer your questions:

  1. Yes more people and yes it's normal. While games do primarily use UDP they do also use TCP as well. I don't have any DPI information to hand but I believe so. The standard games console profile prioritizes 1024-65535 TCP/UDP for example. UDP is great for gaming because it can resend packets very quickly and doesn't need to wait for an acknowledgement that the packet has failed to reach the destination like TCP. IF it is being used more now than then, I would speculate this is due to increased broadband usage, access to higher speeds and more stable connections. I think it's been used just the same amount as it was then and with things like Traffic Prio - DumaOS etc people are delving deeper into their connections than ever before. 
  2. Wide ranges no not really, unless you include ports like 80/443 which are used for downloading, then you could have a problem. For gaming though it doesn't really use much bandwidth at all so you're fine on that front. Yes it can and you'll start to see now and in the coming updates more focus on Traffic Prio and it being used for other applications.

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17 hours ago, Zippy said:

I can only give my opinion on Download vs Upload.. When using TP one should see more Download Packets vs Upload being prioritized.. To me if your Upload packets are out numbering your Download there isnt something right.. One is always Downloading more when playing a game then Uploading.. And Downloading is just as important as Uploading when it comes to gaming..  Every game that performs the best for me always shows more Download.. When a game feels off for some odd reason my Upload starts to out number my Download.. At that point I just disable TP..

Usually one does only use UDP for prioritizing.. But that was back then.. With so many things changing TCP could become an important port now.. The question is what is the port number.. Its always best to pin point ports so one can prio only the important packets.. Ive never been a fan of running ranges.. Unless one knows the range pertains to only critical traffic..

The range that fiefo suggests seems to be a good range to try..

When I do wireshark captures I see port 443 always for a TCP.. But I dont feel it should be used.. As its primary use seems to be with https.. Like port 80 is for http..

Zippy..

 

 

Zippy

 

 personally, I’ve tested multiple ranges.

 

 Source should definitely be 1-65535

 

 however the destination is an ongoing adventure to figure out. 3074-56999 is what I’ve been using. I’ve narrowed it down to something in between there but not exactly sure.

 

 And the game DEFINITELY uses tcp for something critical. Whenever I do udp the game goes to crap. 

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Should you not just prioritise the ports the the game uses as shown in port forward.com 

TCP.   3074

UDP 88 - 500

UDP. 3074-3075

UDP 3455-4500

So effectively 4 rules with the dest shown above all with the same source 1-65535  

 

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5 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Morning Zippy!

To answer your questions:

  1. Yes more people and yes it's normal. While games do primarily use UDP they do also use TCP as well. I don't have any DPI information to hand but I believe so. The standard games console profile prioritizes 1024-65535 TCP/UDP for example. UDP is great for gaming because it can resend packets very quickly and doesn't need to wait for an acknowledgement that the packet has failed to reach the destination like TCP. IF it is being used more now than then, I would speculate this is due to increased broadband usage, access to higher speeds and more stable connections. I think it's been used just the same amount as it was then and with things like Traffic Prio - DumaOS etc people are delving deeper into their connections than ever before. 
  2. Wide ranges no not really, unless you include ports like 80/443 which are used for downloading, then you could have a problem. For gaming though it doesn't really use much bandwidth at all so you're fine on that front. Yes it can and you'll start to see now and in the coming updates more focus on Traffic Prio and it being used for other applications.

Excellent Fraser! Thanks for the awesome detailed response! Greatly appreciate that my friend! :) 

Zippy.

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53 minutes ago, fiefo said:

Zippy

 

 personally, I’ve tested multiple ranges.

 

 Source should definitely be 1-65535

 

 however the destination is an ongoing adventure to figure out. 3074-56999 is what I’ve been using. I’ve narrowed it down to something in between there but not exactly sure.

 

 And the game DEFINITELY uses tcp for something critical. Whenever I do udp the game goes to crap. 

Thanks fiefo!  I agree I have noticed that if I use UDP only the game does seem to fall apart..

I also agree with you that TCP seems to be critical as well.. I dont want anyone to think I was doubting anyone.. I just found this all very interesting.. 

Ive tried so many different ranges as well that I cant even begin to remember them all..lol..

Thanks again for your reply! Maybe we will all figure this out together and narrow down the ranges.. But we seem to be using some very close ranges so thats a plus.. My Source I do leave and just fine tune Destination currently..

Zippy.

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17 minutes ago, BL4CK OPS V3TRN said:

Should you not just prioritise the ports the the game uses as shown in port forward.com 

TCP.   3074

UDP 88 - 500

UDP. 3074-3075

UDP 3455-4500

So effectively 4 rules with the dest shown above all with the same source 1-65535  

 

How does this work for you?  The only thing ive noticed though is that will not include the actual Server port numbers we connect to once we connect to a game.. Ive notice a wide range used.. So far the lowest range a Dedicated Server has used has been 30000 and goes up from there..And that usually is just a UDP port.. 

Thanks!

Zippy.

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8 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Good advice above. In my opinion QoS is for ensuring a stable, lag free connection, it's not a switch on melt mode feature so if it's working well then really you shouldn't even notice it's doing anything - that's just my opinion. The range for the rule suggested is a decent rule to start with, it will supersede QoS but you shouldn't be using much bandwidth at all for it to prevent CC from throttling correctly. Can you post a screenshot of your entire QoS page please?

I have CC set to never since I (usually) throttle and disable share excess when gaming. With these settings though, I cannot throttle at all.

Duma.PNG

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19 hours ago, fiefo said:

A lot of people say don’t prio tcp packets. Honestly I think this is false. 
 

try 1-65535 SRC

3074-56999

TCPUDP 

I've been using these but haven't played enough to determine if I like it. I think I've seen you say before that you play wagers, etc. on cmg, and don't care about things like geo-filter, etc. I'm in the same boat, but am curious as to which settings have worked best for you in custom games (wireless, throttling, traffic prio, DMZ, etc.)?

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the prio is above.

 

for cc Its a never ending battle to figure it out...I only throttle my upload as off now to 480mbps and leave download at max which is usually around 560mbps.

wireless is whatever just don’t use mu Mimo or ax. They don’t work yet

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45 minutes ago, CheckoutCoachCam said:

I have CC set to never since I (usually) throttle and disable share excess when gaming. With these settings though, I cannot throttle at all.

Just to clarify, what do you usually have it set to when gaming/when it isn't throttling?

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1 hour ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Just to clarify, what do you usually have it set to when gaming/when it isn't throttling?

When throttling (which I prefer), CC is never, share excess off, and traffic prior varies (right now it is as shown above, but it doesn't let me throttle when using the ports fiefo suggested).

 

When not throttling, I vary the CC sliders, share excess on, and change up the traffic prio.

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12 hours ago, CheckoutCoachCam said:

When throttling (which I prefer), CC is never, share excess off, and traffic prior varies (right now it is as shown above, but it doesn't let me throttle when using the ports fiefo suggested).

 

When not throttling, I vary the CC sliders, share excess on, and change up the traffic prio.

I'm not sure I understand, if CC is set to never then you are not throttling your bandwidth, you'll need it to be set to 'Always' or 'Auto-enable' to throttle bandwidth.

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16 hours ago, Zippy said:

How does this work for you?  The only thing ive noticed though is that will not include the actual Server port numbers we connect to once we connect to a game.. Ive notice a wide range used.. So far the lowest range a Dedicated Server has used has been 30000 and goes up from there..And that usually is just a UDP port.. 

Thanks!

Zippy.

Works very well , I have noticed that 88-500 rule does not light up though so I guess those port ranges are not used regardless of portforward.com say. TP aligned with GEO set to just the closest server and by sliders set to what gives me the best connection (bufferbloat ) means I am having the best game I have ever had on COD .  Your comment on server ports is interesting I have never really considered that ,  will do some research on the local dedi I connect  to in   South of England 

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2 hours ago, Netduma Liam said:

I'm not sure I understand, if CC is set to never then you are not throttling your bandwidth, you'll need it to be set to 'Always' or 'Auto-enable' to throttle bandwidth.

My bandwidth still gets throttled when I set CC to never, but uncheck share excess (and set the upload speed specifically for my ps4).

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1 hour ago, BL4CK OPS V3TRN said:

Works very well , I have noticed that 88-500 rule does not light up though so I guess those port ranges are not used regardless of portforward.com say. TP aligned with GEO set to just the closest server and by sliders set to what gives me the best connection (bufferbloat ) means I am having the best game I have ever had on COD .  Your comment on server ports is interesting I have never really considered that ,  will do some research on the local dedi I connect  to in   South of England 

I should add that those server port numbers were grabbed when I was doing wireshark captures.. The older R1 router (not sure what firmware) had a feature that showed port numbers in use when playing a game.. Would be really cool if we could get that feature back.. Then we could easily narrow down port ranges to use.. It would help to take out alot of guess work for us.. After playing a number of games we should be able to see a pattern or range that is used..

Glad to hear that works good for you.. I have also noticed the same.. Not all ports are used.. Or at least there is no traffic going through them..

Zippy.

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1 hour ago, CheckoutCoachCam said:

My bandwidth still gets throttled when I set CC to never, but uncheck share excess (and set the upload speed specifically for my ps4).

What does it throttle to? It should only throttle to 100% of your available bandwidth, which if inputted correctly, should be the regular full speeds you get from your ISP.

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