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Leinahtan

XR700 - Frontier FIOS Problems

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I am home for the holidays and my family's XR700 seems to be having some problems. I have tried uploading older firmware to see if it was a firmware problem, nearly bricking it in the process until I had to do a reset twice on it via the little button. I have now reinstalled the newest firmware manually and hopefully the router can resume being normal...

 

But even now, with it back to working, the same problem persists: Every 10 minutes or so, there will be a HUGE lag spike. I have dug up this program called WinMTR to see if it was a router problem, but I am unable to figure this out. My target for these tests is: google.com

The one I ran today:

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                             192.168.1.1 -    1 | 1850 | 1849 |    0 |    0 |    6 |    0 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -  100 |  372 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 1837 | 1831 |    4 |   11 | 2008 |   12 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 1848 | 1845 |    4 |    7 | 2006 |    5 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 1848 | 1845 |    5 |    9 | 2005 |    9 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 1848 | 1845 |    4 |    7 | 2005 |    7 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 1848 | 1845 |    6 |    9 | 2010 |   10 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 1848 | 1845 |    4 |    7 | 2008 |    5 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 1848 | 1845 |    5 |    8 | 2009 |    7 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

Oddly, it seems a packet was lost between my computer and the router. But the bigger problem are the wrst spikes. As you can see, the average is perfectly fine but these spikes occur every 600-800 pings in time length, and some of them time out too. 

 

Below are some older ones I ran in the past. One I left running for a very long time. 

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                           192.168.1.1 -      1 | 17736| 17729|    0 |    0 |    3 |    0 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -  100 | 3563 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 17716| 17698|    4 |    9 | 2015 |    9 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 17715| 17697|    4 |    8 | 2013 |    6 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 17712| 17693|    5 |   10 | 2015 |    5 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 17713| 17695|    5 |    9 | 2014 |    6 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 17715| 17697|    4 |    8 | 2013 |    7 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 17713| 17695|    5 |    9 | 2015 |    7 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 | 17713| 17695|    4 |    8 | 2013 |    8 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                             192.168.1.1 -    0 |   10 |   10 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|                   No response from host -  100 |    3 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|         REMOVED.snmn.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 |   10 |   10 |    5 |    6 |    9 |    7 |
|         REMOVED.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 |   10 |   10 |    4 |    6 |    9 |    9 |
|         REMOVED.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 |   10 |   10 |    5 |    7 |   10 |   10 |
|                            xx.xx.xx.xxx -    0 |   10 |   10 |    7 |    8 |   10 |   10 |
|                         142.250.236.213 -    0 |   10 |   10 |    5 |    6 |    9 |    9 |
|                           209.85.254.87 -    0 |   10 |   10 |    5 |    7 |   10 |   10 |
|               lax17s34-in-f14.1e100.net -    0 |   10 |   10 |    5 |    6 |    8 |    6 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

The last one here was ran for only a short period of time, showing that for short periods of time, the names do show up and it looks all good. Any help in resolving this problem would be greatly appreciated. I tried contacting Frontier, but their tech support basically said "Turn it off and on again? Can't troubleshoot since its not our router". 

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A few questions, have you tried running this test directly from the Frontier modem/router and what are the results? 

What is the destination IP that you used for the test?

Are you using QoS? 

What is the model of the modem/router?

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The old router was: Actiontec MI424WR Rev. 1. I have been planning on removing all connections and just having my computer connect to the router only, but due to people needing the internet the last few days I've been unable to run the test. It will be done soon. If it still fails, I will be inserting the old router back in for a test too. I did manage to connect my own computer to the ONT/Cube-thing and the test had no problems but then again I did not run the test for very long due to people needing the internet back. 

 

The destination ip was: google.com

I didn't use a direct IP, I typed in google.com and it traced to their website.

 

QOS: We were not using QOS initially but then I tried setting it up but didn't seem to get any results from it. We have 100/100 and I tried 70% and always on. I can try it again, but a step by step guide would be helpful as well as details on how it will work. 

 

The router was: Actiontec MI424WR Rev 1

The modem was a Verizon-Issued ONT. I did not see any clear model number on the unit, but it is outside. I saw that it had the following:

Coaxial Cable (I'm Assuming thats for Cable TV)

Copper Wire (Ground/Eletrical purpose, saw tags saying "Ground, do not remove")

2 Phone jacks (Assumed to be the two phone lines)

Ethernet Jack (I think this goes through the wall into that cube, which in turn has the Ethernet port the router plugs into)

Another Coax cable (?) but it terminates quickly into some weird array of cables that look like the IO cables on a motherboard.

 The thin Fiber Optic Cable (I recognize the fiber cable from my own ONT in my condo, since I am visiting).  

 

A lot of the hardware says Verizon on it still since we had this service a long time ago under Verizon until Verizon sold it to Frontier. 

 

And some other background information about the service:

Our telephones (2 landlines), TV, and Internet all come in via FIOS. The ethernet connection between the FIOS box and the router has another small box in-between, which has nothing identifiable on it. Its some little 2 inch by 2 inch by 2 inch box (Cube?) and I have no idea/purpose it serves, but I suspect that little box is the NO RESPONSE 2nd point. We swapped out the old DVR's that had like 80 GB each with a TIVO (Very old DVR's). Our TIVOs are currently trying to communicate over the MOCA I believe as a default setting. We have 2 Mini's and 1 Bolt. 

 

I have been curious about this IGMP proxying setting, which sounds like something we need to do/use when I saw another person on this forum talk about FIOS and having a bunch of other services tied together in one giant FIOS package. 

 

*I did forget to mention we also have a large switch and 2 access points that also connect directly to the router. The large switch is for all the wired ethernet connections in the main hall while the two access points are far off in the two separate corners of the house. I plan on replacing one of those access points tomorrow with a newer dedicated access point. 

 

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I re-ran the program once I unplugged everything (except this computer and turned off the radios on the router (to prevent any wireless devices). The problem still occurs, so it is very likely there is a problem between the ONT and Router. I will begin putting the old router in to see if the problem still persists. 

 

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                             192.168.1.1 -    0 |  532 |  532 |    0 |    0 |    1 |    0 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -  100 |  108 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 |  531 |  530 |    4 |    9 | 1010 |    8 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 |  531 |  530 |    4 |    8 | 1009 |    8 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 |  531 |  530 |    4 |    9 | 1010 |    8 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 |  531 |  530 |    4 |    8 | 1009 |    6 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 |  531 |  530 |    4 |    8 | 1008 |    6 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 |  531 |  530 |    6 |   10 | 1010 |    9 |
|           Destination host unreachable. -    1 |  531 |  530 |    5 |    9 | 1010 |    5 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

 

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|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|          Wireless_Broadband_Router.home -    0 |  728 |  728 |    0 |    0 |    1 |    0 |
|                   No response from host -  100 |  145 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.166 -    0 |  728 |  728 |    7 |   10 |   17 |    8 |
|   xxxxxxxxxxxxx.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 |  728 |  728 |    7 |    9 |   13 |    8 |
|   xxxxxxxxxxxxx.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 |  728 |  728 |    6 |    9 |   52 |   10 |
|                            xx.xx.xx.254 -    0 |  728 |  728 |    6 |    8 |   12 |    9 |
|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.179 -    0 |  728 |  728 |   10 |   12 |   18 |   13 |
|                          xxx.xxx.xxx.49 -    0 |  728 |  728 |    7 |    9 |   20 |    8 |
|               lax31s12-in-f14.1e100.net -    0 |  728 |  728 |    6 |    8 |   11 |    9 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

This is the progress so far using the old actiontec router. This setup uses only my computer connected to the old actiontec. No other devices. Strangely, the first address changed. 
 

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|          Wireless_Broadband_Router.home -    0 | 1913 | 1913 |    0 |    0 |    1 |    0 |
|                   No response from host -  100 |  383 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |
|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.166 -    0 | 1913 | 1913 |    6 |   10 |   17 |   11 |
|   xxxxxxxxxxxxx.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 | 1913 | 1913 |    7 |    9 |   13 |    9 |
|   xxxxxxxxxxxxx.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 | 1913 | 1913 |    6 |    9 |   52 |   10 |
|                            xx.xx.xx.254 -    0 | 1913 | 1913 |    6 |    8 |   14 |   10 |
|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.179 -    0 | 1913 | 1913 |    9 |   12 |   99 |   13 |
|                          xxx.xxx.xxx.49 -    0 | 1913 | 1913 |    7 |    9 |   25 |   12 |
|               lax31s12-in-f14.1e100.net -    0 | 1913 | 1913 |    6 |    8 |   11 |   11 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

*Updated log, no data loss and no large spikes. The old actiontec router seems to be working fine. Is the XR700 defective or is there some setting we need to set? It runs fine for the most part but the sudden spikes are a problem. 

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Thanks for all the information, these new tests, were they through the switch or directly connected to the router? 

Disable QoS entirely from the Anti-Bufferbloat 3 line option menu, it's possible we'll need to use this to eliminate the spikes but want to see if it is dropping any packets.

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The tests above were directly from my computer straight into the routers via a very long ethernet cable I have on hand. I will try disabling the QoS when I have a chance and let you know if that stops the packet losses and spikes. Just to make sure, you mean disabling QOS from the top left menu completely, what you call the 3 line options menu?

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5 hours ago, Leinahtan said:

The tests above were directly from my computer straight into the routers via a very long ethernet cable I have on hand. I will try disabling the QoS when I have a chance and let you know if that stops the packet losses and spikes. Just to make sure, you mean disabling QOS from the top left menu completely, what you call the 3 line options menu?

Yes that's exactly right, that will disable all features on the QoS page. If it still occurs then could point to an issue elsewhere, if it doesn't then could indicate the QoS settings just need to be optimized. There will always be a certain amount of dropped packets but not as much as you're currently seeing.

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14 hours ago, Leinahtan said:

The tests above were directly from my computer straight into the routers via a very long ethernet cable I have on hand. I will try disabling the QoS when I have a chance and let you know if that stops the packet losses and spikes. Just to make sure, you mean disabling QOS from the top left menu completely, what you call the 3 line options menu?

For Fios, I definitely think it needs to run through their router first. I’ve tried the default configuration where you put duma as primary but QoS never seems to work properly. Data from the coaxs mess up the algorithm that duma uses. It’s not even duma tbh. Coax is not it. I bought a moca adapter that comes soon so I’ll let you know if that’s any better :(

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20 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

Yes that's exactly right, that will disable all features on the QoS page. If it still occurs then could point to an issue elsewhere, if it doesn't then could indicate the QoS settings just need to be optimized. There will always be a certain amount of dropped packets but not as much as you're currently seeing.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |

|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |

|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|

|                             192.168.1.1 -    0 |  554 |  554 |    0 |    0 |    1 |    0 |

|                   No response from host -  100 |  111 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |

|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.250 -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |   10 |   29 |    8 |

|   xxxxxxxxxxxxx.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |    8 |  991 |    6 |

|   xxxxxxxxxxxxx.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |    8 | 1011 |    6 |

|                            xx.xx.xx.254 -    0 |  554 |  554 |    5 |    9 | 1017 |    8 |

|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.177 -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |    8 |  993 |    6 |

|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.213 -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |    8 |  994 |    6 |

|               lax28s01-in-f14.1e100.net -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |    8 | 1000 |    6 |

|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

The above is the XR700 router. It hits 1000+ ping pretty quickly. This was done today just a few minutes ago. 

 

 

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |

|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |

|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|

|          Wireless_Broadband_Router.home -    0 | 52068 | 52068 |    0 |    0 |    7 |    0 |

|                    No response from host -  100 | 10428 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |

|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.164 -    1 | 52041 | 52034 |    6 |   10 |   98 |   10 |

|   xxxxxxx.scr02.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    7 |    9 |  161 |   11 |

|   xxxxxxx.cbr01.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    6 |    9 |  116 |    9 |

|                            xx.xx.xx.254 -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    6 |    9 |   99 |   10 |

|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.181 -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    8 |   11 |  235 |   11 |

|                           xx.xxx.xxx.39 -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    7 |   10 |  152 |   11 |

|               lax17s38-in-f14.1e100.net -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    6 |    8 |  131 |    8 |

|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

The above is the old actiontec router, I accidentally left it on for a very long time. This was done 2 days ago. 

 

So, currently the router and Frontier FIOS do not like each other, it wasn't the QOS feature. I went in and disabled it completely. Any other possibilities?

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7 hours ago, Leinahtan said:
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |

|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |

|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|

|                             192.168.1.1 -    0 |  554 |  554 |    0 |    0 |    1 |    0 |

|                   No response from host -  100 |  111 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |

|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.250 -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |   10 |   29 |    8 |

|   xxxxxxxxxxxxx.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |    8 |  991 |    6 |

|   xxxxxxxxxxxxx.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |    8 | 1011 |    6 |

|                            xx.xx.xx.254 -    0 |  554 |  554 |    5 |    9 | 1017 |    8 |

|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.177 -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |    8 |  993 |    6 |

|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.213 -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |    8 |  994 |    6 |

|               lax28s01-in-f14.1e100.net -    0 |  554 |  554 |    4 |    8 | 1000 |    6 |

|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

The above is the XR700 router. It hits 1000+ ping pretty quickly. This was done today just a few minutes ago. 

 

 

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |

|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |

|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|

|          Wireless_Broadband_Router.home -    0 | 52068 | 52068 |    0 |    0 |    7 |    0 |

|                    No response from host -  100 | 10428 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |    0 |

|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.164 -    1 | 52041 | 52034 |    6 |   10 |   98 |   10 |

|   xxxxxxx.scr02.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    7 |    9 |  161 |   11 |

|   xxxxxxx.cbr01.lsan.ca.frontiernet.net -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    6 |    9 |  116 |    9 |

|                            xx.xx.xx.254 -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    6 |    9 |   99 |   10 |

|                         xxx.xxx.xxx.181 -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    8 |   11 |  235 |   11 |

|                           xx.xxx.xxx.39 -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    7 |   10 |  152 |   11 |

|               lax17s38-in-f14.1e100.net -    0 | 52069 | 52069 |    6 |    8 |  131 |    8 |

|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

The above is the old actiontec router, I accidentally left it on for a very long time. This was done 2 days ago. 

 

So, currently the router and Frontier FIOS do not like each other, it wasn't the QOS feature. I went in and disabled it completely. Any other possibilities?

Could you provide a guide for how you bridged it? 

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On 12/28/2020 at 5:29 PM, fiefo said:

For Fios, I definitely think it needs to run through their router first. I’ve tried the default configuration where you put duma as primary but QoS never seems to work properly. Data from the coaxs mess up the algorithm that duma uses. It’s not even duma tbh. Coax is not it. I bought a moca adapter that comes soon so I’ll let you know if that’s any better :(

Yea I never had any luck while running those routers even in bridge mode. It messed with the Duma R1 and the XR500 way too often. I just called them and complained enough to have them remotely enable the ethernet on the ONT. 

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57 minutes ago, Codester said:

Yea I never had any luck while running those routers even in bridge mode. It messed with the Duma R1 and the XR500 way too often. I just called them and complained enough to have them remotely enable the ethernet on the ONT. 

Get the moca adapter

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4 minutes ago, fiefo said:

Get the moca adapter

That's always an option but why? I'm running straight ethernet from the ONT box to my router. I don't ever plan on paying for cable again so there isn't a point of running coax or using their router. 

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