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Killhippie

XR500 Firmware version 2.3.2.56 released.

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We need to get approval from Netgear that's all, they may want us to rewrite certain parts etc. It was an error to mention the post at all when we couldn't confirm the date.

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Seems you guys have lost desire and control for your own product

I don't even know why i even come here anymore hoping for fixes for my product it has been an still is just a waste of my time 

I sure regret my choice in buying a netduma product

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22 hours ago, Netduma Alex said:

The lesson we learned from the 8 month gap is that we should have told NETGEAR to hold off the patch because people would see it as "the accumulation of 8 months of work", which simply isn't the case.

The 8 months of work is going to be in milestone 1.4, and .56 was just a bug fix update from NETGEAR. Still, from the outside, it looked like we had done nothing for 8 months. This is not the case at all and we'll be proving that's the case when that blog post comes out.

So you didn't learn that people need regular bug fixes in those 8 months? Not new milestones? New features are great but  fix the bugs at a regular intervals, new features can come later when we have had old bugs that have been around for 9 months squashed. Seeing Netduma being proactive in bug hunting and fixing those  issues inspires confidence, rhetoric about new features and zero talk about fixing issues does not.

 Right now I have no faith in Milestone 1.4 because there are so many bugs from almost a year ago that are still not fixed in DumaOS. Why is that? I really want to know why in those 8 months no major bug fixes were pushed to users with issues with QoS and VLAN tagging and Geo filter issues, and the mess that's the device manager that is still being back to front in table view compared with Netgears own port map?

 All these issues came with Milestone 1.3 in December 2018, almost 9 months ago now, Its a simple question, that really deserves an answer I believe. Why cant You guys just release regular fixes rather than making  a new milestone with zero fixes in between or just add new features along the way instead of lumping it all together in what will always be a buggy update, not because you are bad devs but because that's the nature of big software re-writes, they all have bugs, hence patches to fix these bugs after release. Patching only by milestone seems an insanely bad way of dealing with these issues in my view and a very easy way to lose your customer base. More transparency about what's going on would really help too, If the updates are DumaOS related why do you have to get permission from Netgear when DumaOS is your code?

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1 hour ago, Killhippie said:

If the updates are DumaOS related why do you have to get permission from Netgear when DumaOS is your code?

I can't go too in depth on it but essentially it's to do with the fact that Netgear is publicly traded, and rules regarding what is and isn't disclosed are a lot more harsh when that's the case.

Also there are some big feature announcements that Netgear would like to make, rather than us. If we announce something and they don't know about it, we might take the wind out of their sails accidentally. It's worth it for us to allow Netgear to make these announcements because they have a massive reach compared to us.

The speed of the announcements, however, will have absolutely no bearing on how fast new features are created. Based on what i'm seeing here at the office every day, I can honestly tell you that I think milestone 1.4 is going to be amazing.

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People need to realize that the ultimate owner of the XR series IS NetGear. If you want to keep complaining and nagging, then you should be discussing this over on the NetGear forums and or filing support tickets. NetDuma is only the 3rd Party or Co-Developer for a portion of the FW that is developed and marketed BY NetGear. NetGear holds all the plans, policy's and release dates of when actual FW updates that go to public. It's up to NetGear and NetDuma to work together in getting code fixed based on which side of the code needs fixing. If there is problems with the NetDuma portion, then NetDuma needs to get this corrected then handed back to NetGear. If there are problems on the NetGear side of the fence, then NetDuma has nothing to do with it and NetGear needs to make the corrections. However NetGear needs to know what all the problems are first and foremost. 


There's a long processing and development and in house testing that needs to be done. So this can take a long time, several months. So FW just cant' be released willy nilly based on users complaints and nagging. If there are legitimate complaints, users need to post about these in the NetGear forums as well as NetDuma and troubleshooting should be performed to narrow down where the real problem is and also might find out which side of the fence it resides. I most cases, this will be NetGear and they need to see and review ALL information to determine who needs to take corrective actions. 

IMO, most of you people are barking up the wrong tree. If you want to voice your opinions and complaints, you need to field them with NetGear first. They hold the entire responsibility of the XR series. It's there product. If this was a NetDuma R series router, then you would be in the right right tree. 


Please give NetDuma a break on this. They can only do so much and say so much. There are reasons why the public gets limited information about FW updates and product releases. This is business and how router business is ran. 

Be patient and show some understanding. 

 

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4 hours ago, Mement said:

Im Surprised I've not seen a netduma episode on watchdog yet;)

If Matt Allwright shows up i'll gladly have it out with him.

55 minutes ago, e38BimmerFN said:

Please give NetDuma a break on this. They can only do so much and say so much. There are reasons why the public gets limited information about FW updates and product releases. This is business and how router business is ran. 

Be patient and show some understanding. 

Thanks very much for your understanding! It's frustrating that we can't be more open with the public but that's how it is when you work with the big boys.

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17 hours ago, e38BimmerFN said:

People need to realize that the ultimate owner of the XR series IS NetGear. If you want to keep complaining and nagging, then you should be discussing this over on the NetGear forums and or filing support tickets. NetDuma is only the 3rd Party or Co-Developer for a portion of the FW that is developed and marketed BY NetGear. NetGear holds all the plans, policy's and release dates of when actual FW updates that go to public. It's up to NetGear and NetDuma to work together in getting code fixed based on which side of the code needs fixing. If there is problems with the NetDuma portion, then NetDuma needs to get this corrected then handed back to NetGear. If there are problems on the NetGear side of the fence, then NetDuma has nothing to do with it and NetGear needs to make the corrections. However NetGear needs to know what all the problems are first and foremost. 


There's a long processing and development and in house testing that needs to be done. So this can take a long time, several months. So FW just cant' be released willy nilly based on users complaints and nagging. If there are legitimate complaints, users need to post about these in the NetGear forums as well as NetDuma and troubleshooting should be performed to narrow down where the real problem is and also might find out which side of the fence it resides. I most cases, this will be NetGear and they need to see and review ALL information to determine who needs to take corrective actions. 

IMO, most of you people are barking up the wrong tree. If you want to voice your opinions and complaints, you need to field them with NetGear first. They hold the entire responsibility of the XR series. It's there product. If this was a NetDuma R series router, then you would be in the right right tree. 


Please give NetDuma a break on this. They can only do so much and say so much. There are reasons why the public gets limited information about FW updates and product releases. This is business and how router business is ran. 

Be patient and show some understanding. 

 

They have been fielded at Netgear believe me. Netduma are responsible for fixing bugs in DumaOS and passing them on to Netgear and it seems many which arrived with Milestone 1.3 point to DumaOS for which they acknowledged some, and others are Netgears, but they all have just have just vanished into a black hole of promises, with each side seemingly passing the blame to the other. No matter what, it does not take 8 months to release a patch which virtually no fixes in it for major bugs like VLAN tagging, or DumaOS's QoS issues or port mapping GUI bugs or actual port mapping bugs. Netgear say talk to Netduma, and vice versa and the users are none the wiser and this process of going in ever decreasing circles just continues. You of all people know how fast Voxel can turn around an update, so there really is no excuse for the lack of fixes from Netduma to pass to Netgear as I see it apart from red tape at Netgears end, but even then Netgear used to kick out quarterly updates. Most of the bugs seem to be relying on milestone 1.4 to fix and that's in my view not a good way to patch a router. I really think this side of the Netgears router business is not being prioritised at this time with AX being pushed so hard now, but that's just a theory

 I'm well aware you can't just release fixes "willy nilly" too but with promises of fixes for bugs almost a year old still not fixed after Netduma said they would be fixed or at least if its not one of their they would communicate with Netgear who do we hold responsible?  As to "Be patient and show some understanding" I have for 8 months and look where that landed us <sigh> I think the Netgear ,Netduma sandwich is not working well at this time as far as fixing issues. I also can't see it  improving when Netduma don't appear to have a timescale for bug fixes. The issue is when you get answers like " Of course we plan to continue to fix issues and keep improving the firmware but no specific news on fix timelines" it does not give you renewed confidence that things will improve. :(

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My personal opinion is that NG has allowed NetDuma too much support in there forums for handling the XR series router. I can tell this is bringing too much user expectations and precedence upon NetDuma. If it was me, I would have not allowed NetDuma to host support for the XR series routers on there forums and kept it only on the NG forums. Only allowing NetDuma moderators to help and make posts there. Also limiting the information about FW releases. The XR series support forums should be kept in one central place so that both NG and NetDuma can gain good information and get the problems fixed in a more efficient way. Having two different support forums maybe leading to confusion and too much information to weed out. Moderators giving too much information to users sets a bad precedence and expectations from users. We don't see a lot of this kind of information being posted by NG Moderators on there forums. 

NG is not the only one to not release FW updates as quickly as users want them. 

It all comes down to NetGear holding the pink slip. It's there product and responsibility. Users should be talking to them directly. 

 

My 2 cents. 

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51 minutes ago, e38BimmerFN said:

My personal opinion is that NG has allowed NetDuma too much support in there forums for handling the XR series router. I can tell this is bringing too much user expectations and precedence upon NetDuma. If it was me, I would have not allowed NetDuma to host support for the XR series routers on there forums and kept it only on the NG forums.

This might have been a good idea, but from our point of view we like the current layout as it considates all DumaOS tech support in one place. Still, that can be problematic when users need to decide who to approach for support. The current plan is just to respond everywhere, but users often will do the same thing, and create multiple threads and send us multiple emails about the same problem. 

I much prefer the Netduma forums in terms of layout, so my personal preference is to keep using this forum. Not to mention that Netduma and Netgear are not the same company, and to deliver all of our support on Netgear's forums would suggest otherwise. It does create this problem of "is this a Netgear problem or a Netduma problem". This is something we'll be aiming to improve in the future.

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I understand the lay out and I to like the look and feel of the ND forums 💗over NG forums. 


I would prefer having one central place for XR forum support though. There too much going on between two forums and it's possible that some information gets lost in the noise that goes on between them. 

We know that NG and ND are different companies, however when it comes to XR routers, it's there product over all. I know that ND works with NG on many things. Just would like to see a bit more consolidation in regards to support forums and users. Would seem to be more helpful for everyone in the long run. 

However it is was it is and users can post where they feel. Its still NetGear ball when it comes to the XR routers. 😏

We all need to be patient. 😐

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I like the format here and the way the  Community works together. It’s a lot better than Netgear support and I’ve the Arlo system and to be honest their forum although now a separate company to Netgear is not a patch to this forum.

i don’t know another company that helps as much as Netduma, it’s almost 24/7 and here I feel you get a more personal one to one. It’s also friendly and everyone tries to help where they can. Long may it last.

 

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14 minutes ago, Newfie said:

I like the format here and the way the  Community works together. It’s a lot better than Netgear support and I’ve the Arlo system and to be honest their forum although now a separate company to Netgear is not a patch to this forum.

i don’t know another company that helps as much as Netduma, it’s almost 24/7 and here I feel you get a more personal one to one. It’s also friendly and everyone tries to help where they can. Long may it last.

Well our main rule is that every single thread, tweet, ticket and email must be replied to. Replying to all of this stuff is the most important part of my job and I always give it maximum priority.

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It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that a lot of frustration between all parties involved is exaggerated because of the lack of clarity and common sense

At least start by creating an up to date pinned post detailing the current known bugs for Netgear, Netduma and customers to refer to so we are all on the same page then add any information for customers about current known workarounds for each bug until a patch is available 

Why you guys aint done this already is beyond me:blink:

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51 minutes ago, Mement said:

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that a lot of frustration between all parties involved is exaggerated because of the lack of clarity and common sense

At least start by creating an up to date pinned post detailing the current known bugs for Netgear, Netduma and customers to refer to so we are all on the same page then add any information for customers about current known workarounds for each bug until a patch is available 

Why you guys aint done this already is beyond me:blink:

There are pro/cons to doing that, one would be that as soon as we put out a post like that people will start to assign priorities themselves to issues that need to be fixed and that can cause drama. We're not ruling it out but probably not right now.

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2 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

 

 

3 hours ago, e38BimmerFN said:

Most router Mfrs don't do this. 🙄

Am i speaking about every router manafacturer 

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2 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

There are pro/cons to doing that, one would be that as soon as we put out a post like that people will start to assign priorities themselves to issues that need to be fixed and that can cause drama. We're not ruling it out but probably not right now.

Im talking just a locked upto date pinned post where people are able to look up current bugs and or find information about current known workarounds nothing more

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On 9/12/2019 at 2:42 PM, e38BimmerFN said:

My personal opinion is that NG has allowed NetDuma too much support in there forums for handling the XR series router. I can tell this is bringing too much user expectations and precedence upon NetDuma. If it was me, I would have not allowed NetDuma to host support for the XR series routers on there forums and kept it only on the NG forums. Only allowing NetDuma moderators to help and make posts there. Also limiting the information about FW releases. The XR series support forums should be kept in one central place so that both NG and NetDuma can gain good information and get the problems fixed in a more efficient way. Having two different support forums maybe leading to confusion and too much information to weed out. Moderators giving too much information to users sets a bad precedence and expectations from users. We don't see a lot of this kind of information being posted by NG Moderators on there forums. 

NG is not the only one to not release FW updates as quickly as users want them. 

It all comes down to NetGear holding the pink slip. It's there product and responsibility. Users should be talking to them directly. 

 

My 2 cents. 

And I have and as I mentioned it just all goes around in circles, you know what Netgear is like. Also you get no real support after 90 days, just vitriol from some very rancid users quite a lot of the time. Its not a good environment to deal with bugs, some people don't even realise its a Netgear router! On this forum people can talk without anger and that's a good thing and the forum does feel friendly, also the staff are great. Id rather voice my concerns to Fraser or Alex or Jack than deal with the bowels of hell, sorry I meant the Netgear forum. ;)

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Can someone explain what " Support France Free and Orange ISP of the IPTV configuration" stands for ?

Does that mean I can now connect my ISP Set Top Box to my XR500 network instead of connecting it to my Internet Access Device network ?

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We have considered doing a roadmap like the Epic Games Store does, but it would collide with our current policy of not promising anything in case we are delayed or can't deliver it.

I'd much rather surprise people with great updates than promise something greater which we don't end up delivering.

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1 hour ago, Adelscott said:

Can someone explain what " Support France Free and Orange ISP of the IPTV configuration" stands for ?

Does that mean I can now connect my ISP Set Top Box to my XR500 network instead of connecting it to my Internet Access Device network ?

There are ISP's in France that require you to use their own router/modem to get any connection. This new option in the XR500 will allow you remove the ISP modem and just use your XR500.

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Ok thanks, I guess it's a "Yes", but I still have to use their modem, because I can't plug the fiber optic on my  XR500 😁

Is there any settings related to that ? I updated my XR500 but I can't find anything on web interface.

 

For the record :

My ISP is Orange and their router/modem is crap because you can't use it on "passthrough' (sorry doesn't remember the name), it has to be in router mode. And the set top box only works in DHCP and didn't worked connected to the XR500.

So I have :

  • xxx.xxx.0.xxx network for the ISP router, with DHCP, only 2 IPs : XR500 and set top box (has to be in DHCP, can't choose IP)
  • xxx.xxx.1.xxx network for the XR500 connecting on xxx.xxx.0.xxx for internet access.

 

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