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Anti bufferbloat 20%

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40 minutes ago, He4DHuNt3r_XIM said:

Buster

 

Are you with BT, EE or Plusnet by any chance?

 

There's a 72 page thread on the BT forums of people complaining of high latency spikes whenever there's someone streaming video content.

https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-setup-Wi-Fi-network/Recent-online-gaming-ping-spikes-when-streaming-Netflix/td-p/1930963 

 

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/08/customers-of-uk-isp-bt-see-multiplayer-lag-spikes-during-streaming.html

 

I'm with EE, which uses BT's core network & have the same problem :(

I am on BT,  thanks for the link il take a look i had no idea , atm the only thing that seems to stop it is unchecking share excess.

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2 hours ago, Netduma Fraser said:

I've just realised the HG has QoS as well, could you disable that as well please as it could be interfering even though it shouldn't with the DMZ.

The QoS is disabled as is upnp

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The above is a good shout, thanks for letting us know @He4DHuNt3r_XIM

Have you got a FireTV or a smart TV that streams at all? Is that when the issues start as we've seen that before where it somehow doesn't seem to pay attention to QoS.

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Nope the test is showing ping spikes when just the pc is playing videos no other devices, looks like it could just be bt after having a quick look on those threads

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That seems likely as everything we've done should have worked and I can't think of any other reason why it wouldn't. I imagine this is an issue BT haven't confirmed as well.

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6 minutes ago, Netduma Fraser said:

I imagine this is an issue BT haven't confirmed as well.

Check the dates on the 1st page of the thread, they do know about the issue as it's been happening for over a year :(

 

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Annnnnd then i go to page 72 of the BT forum thread and see this, which gives me hope but also makes me want to wear my monitor as a bracelet ,

 

"Hey guys. I thought I would update the thread as I have finally managed to fix the issue for my setup after weeks of searching.

I recently upgraded to a Netgear Nighthawk XR300 and previously owned another Nighthawk model. While searching the internet for other people experiencing lag spikes during gaming, I found forum posts outlining the same issue with Plusnet, EE and some other ISP's in the USA. 

I found some information regarding the Nighthawk OS (DumaOS) and a new feature in the QOS settings called anti-buffer bloat. You can read about this here.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-Pro-Gaming-Routers/What-Is-Anti-buffer-Bloat/td-p/1669266

Anyway, I looked through my Netgear OS last night and found that by default, the feature was set to 'never'

I switched this to 'always' as recommended by other forum posts and this has completely solved the ping spike issue. I also tweaked some of the QOS settings to prioritise my gaming set up.

If you are experiencing ping spikes and have a Nighthawk router, definitely try this and this is most likely the cause of the issue. If you dont own a Nighthawk router then buying one is likely to solve the issue.

Check the article out and give it some consideration."

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As great that it is that the router fixed it for that person I think they were just experiencing normal local congestion as there have been people in that topic saying they've used QoS on their routers and it's still an issue.

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Reading through the BT forum it seems it’s not just restricted to BT. I thought I would see what happens as I’m on BT even though I’ve got another router up and running while my XR is being exchanged for a fault.

a quote there is 

there are plenty of other posts on this issue, which is affecting other ISPs.

 

last night I was running about in division, I had my shield pro streaming iPad with apple film streaming and MacBook on playing from YouTube and I never noticed an issue. 
ive not got Netflix though and if you think that’s the reason a shield may be useful in that respect. 
 

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Sounds like ISP's might be running some kind of QoS to make sure that streaming video is prioritized, which on the face of it sounds like a good idea until you realize it's interfering with people's gaming.

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1 hour ago, Netduma Alex said:

Sounds like ISP's might be running some kind of QoS to make sure that streaming video is prioritized, which on the face of it sounds like a good idea until you realize it's interfering with people's gaming.

Reading through both links it’s definitely not linked just to BT but others too. I’m guessing due to the fact that streaming is very popular the ISPs have prioritised this. 
if this is true then I take it no matter what Router you have nothing will solve this issue. 

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2 hours ago, Newfie said:

Reading through both links it’s definitely not linked just to BT but others too. I’m guessing due to the fact that streaming is very popular the ISPs have prioritised this. 
if this is true then I take it no matter what Router you have nothing will solve this issue. 

It seems very short sighted of them given that gaming is such a big deal, however it's possible that ISPs are providing their own video-on-demand services which is what motivates them to prioritize video so much.

It's also possible that most online gamers don't notice lag... Seems unlikely to me but i'm not most people.

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1 hour ago, Netduma Alex said:

It seems very short sighted of them given that gaming is such a big deal, however it's possible that ISPs are providing their own video-on-demand services which is what motivates them to prioritize video so much.

It's also possible that most online gamers don't notice lag... Seems unlikely to me but i'm not most people.

Maybe some games are more delicate than others, COD vs World of Warships for example. Reading again some of the threads it’s making gaming almost impossible.

I have been ping plotting and thankfully I’m ok on BT. I’ve tried everything from MacBook running prime, bbc iPlayer and YouTube plus my  shield running all the various video apps. Only time it goes bananas is once I’ve saturated the connection as I’ve got QoS off on my present router. Why some are caught in this while others seem ok is a strange one.

I’ve included  a PingPlotter pic on my iPad so it’s not like a wired connection and I’m streaming Amazon prime via my shield. 

 



 

 

57111492-1615-4E8A-A3F9-2FAA5AA5AE55.png

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18 hours ago, Netduma Alex said:

It seems very short sighted of them given that gaming is such a big deal, however it's possible that ISPs are providing their own video-on-demand services which is what motivates them to prioritize video so much.

It's also possible that most online gamers don't notice lag... Seems unlikely to me but i'm not most people.

Alex just a thought but would a VPN help with this. If for example you are streaming say prime or one of the various streaming services would a VPN hide the fact that you are streaming ie isp can’t tell what activity you are doing so that this way the way they shape performance is nulled?

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37 minutes ago, Newfie said:

Alex just a thought but would a VPN help with this. If for example you are streaming say prime or one of the various streaming services would a VPN hide the fact that you are streaming ie isp can’t tell what activity you are doing so that this way the way they shape performance is nulled?

Netflix & Prime block most VPN's don't they? I could only get NordVPN to work if I used there software on my PC - Using NordVPN through the Router didn't let me watch anything.

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1 minute ago, He4DHuNt3r_XIM said:

Netflix & Prime block most VPN's don't they? I could only get NordVPN to work if I used there software on my PC - Using NordVPN through the Router didn't let me watch anything.

That’s a shame, thanks for letting me know.

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8 hours ago, Newfie said:

Alex just a thought but would a VPN help with this. If for example you are streaming say prime or one of the various streaming services would a VPN hide the fact that you are streaming ie isp can’t tell what activity you are doing so that this way the way they shape performance is nulled?

If that is what they are doing then in theory yes, selecting the closest VPN server would minimize additional latency as well.

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Ive had a good old read of the BT forum, all 75 pages and I’m not convinced it’s all  down to BT network as quite a few have solved it via third party router and QoS. There’s one or two who had BT fix issues and there’s one who tried an XR router but it did not help but sometimes I wonder if it’s true as swapping out a modern homehub would require a modem and at times people who post about trying different routers never mention modems so I guess some posts have to be taken with a pinch of salt. 
the BT homehub has no QoS either as it’s just a basic free router with no modem only option.

Others have noted Netflix only and others say YouTube, Netflix and other streaming services create the issue. 
 

this leads me back to a question.

Could there be maybe a bug in the Bufferbloat and a reset or downgrade and upgrade of firmware be worth trying just in case Buster has an issue?

 

 

 

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On 1/13/2020 at 10:03 PM, Netduma Alex said:

It seems very short sighted of them given that gaming is such a big deal, however it's possible that ISPs are providing their own video-on-demand services which is what motivates them to prioritize video so much.

It's also possible that most online gamers don't notice lag... Seems unlikely to me but i'm not most people.

 

This is exactly what happens to a lot of folks.

 

If you have a ISP that runs their own IPTV, VoIP and internet service they often prioritize their own services. So if you run anti bufferbloat and dial down your connection you are essentially fighting their QoS.

 

The better ISP's have a setup where IPTV and VoIP have their own VLAN so they don't interfere, but a lot of companies just do it by QoS.

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7 hours ago, Newfie said:

Could there be maybe a bug in the Bufferbloat and a reset or downgrade and upgrade of firmware be worth trying just in case Buster has an issue?

It's certainly worth a try if Buster wants to do that!

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1 hour ago, Netduma Fraser said:

It's certainly worth a try if Buster wants to do that!

I will definitely try it, do you think the xr500 having issues with pppoe connections would make it a fair test though? 

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15 minutes ago, Buster said:

I will definitely try it, do you think the xr500 having issues with pppoe connections would make it a fair test though? 

Have you had issues with pppoe and are you BT?

I'm BT running the same setup as you apart from I’ve a different router going at the moment. 

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9 minutes ago, Newfie said:

Have you had issues with pppoe and are you BT?

I'm BT running the same setup as you apart from I’ve a different router going at the moment. 

As far as i am aware the XR500 has issues handling pppoe and qos on upload from what i have read on here in other threads ,

i am on BT

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30 minutes ago, Buster said:

I will definitely try it, do you think the xr500 having issues with pppoe connections would make it a fair test though? 

It might not be as effective but try it and see.

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4 minutes ago, Netduma Fraser said:

It might not be as effective but try it and see.

Can i get the link to do the downgrade and upgrade please? 

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