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Questions and Suggestions XR500

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I just purchased my XR500 on Friday, July 6th.  So far I really like it, for the most part.  There are some issues and questions I have, and some requests/suggestions as well.

 

First of all, DumaOS is great.  There are a lot of features I truly love so far, and a lot of opportunity for growth.

 

To give context to some of my questions, I want to mention that the router I had for the last seven years has been the E4200 Linksys.

 

Questions: 

 

1.  Is there currently not an option to use my CyberGhost VPN at the router level?  Not even with OpenVPN?

-see suggestion "A"

 

2.  On my last router, I had my Nintendo Switch on a DMZ.  Nintendo calls for a huge number of ports to be open.  I don't want to open that many ports with Triggering or Forwarding, so I like it best behind a DMZ.  On my last router, I could never get an "A" rating on the Nintendo Switch's connection test (I'm assuming this is NAT type) without doing DMZ.  On this XR500, so far I have been able to get "A" without using DMZ.  Could that be because UPnP is better on the XR500?  Maybe UPnP has been updated recently on Switch?  

So perhaps it may not be necessary for me to DMZ the Switch at all, but I would still like to know how to do it.  The instructions within the guide I saw here on the site, and the question mark within DumaOS on my XR500 are not clear to me.  I have already assigned the Switch a static IP.

 

3. How is someone supposed to know the "Triggering Port" for Port Triggering?  Steam as an example, they just list a range of ports that need opened.  https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8571-GLVN-8711

On my last router, there was a RANGE you could set to trigger, and a RANGE you could set to forward.

-see suggestion "B"

 

4.  How does anti-bufferbloat work exactly?  The guide doesn't make this clear.  Like, what exactly do the sliders at the top do?

 

5. How does the router detect gaming-related traffic?  How does it distinguish it from other traffic?

 

6.  What's the difference between "Devices" under "Geo-Fliter", "Profiles" within the "Geo-Filter Map", and "Traffic Prioritization" within the "QoS" tab?

-see suggestion "D"

 

Suggestions:

 

A.  Add a highly customizable VPN setup.  Allow us to use OpenVPN.  Allow us to distinguish certain devices, and let them stay off the VPN.  Allow us to customize specifically which traffic gets sent through the VPN, and which does not.  Like, for example, I want all my traffic, except stuff like Netflix and Discord (because they don't play nice with VPN) to go through the VPN.

 

B.  Please update your Port Triggering tab to allow for a range of triggering ports.  This seems like a huge opportunity for improvement.  There should be a "Triggered Range" and a "Forwarded Range".  There's not always one trigger (please correct me if I am wrong).

 

C.  Please add more device types in Device Manager.  This is supposed to be a gaming router, and we still have only Wii as an option for Nintendo consoles?  No Wii U or Switch?  We need Switch at the very least.  Also, please add Set Top Box.  Or perhaps get specific, such as Shield TV or Fire TV, etc.   You really can't have too many options here.  The more the merrier. 

 

D. The games list is severely lacking.  Shouldn't you guys be adding all the latest games?  

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

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Hey, welcome to the forum!

  1. We're working on our VPN Hybrid solution which would allow use of third party providers. We're trying to get a beta for users wanting this.
  2. If you've got an A then no need to, sounds like the NAT is open. UPnP on Netgear routers are very good from what I've heard. You can DMZ from WAN Setup in Settings by putting the device IP into it.
  3. Can't answer that but would just port forward if needed but UPnP should be fine
  4. Which guide are you reading? Press the ? icon on the panels, there is also the same icon next to the QoS title on the page that will run through a tour and explain it.
  5. Uses deep packet inspection
  6. Not sure what you mean by the difference. Devices is the device you want to add that you want Geo-Filtered. Profiles will set our recommended Geo-Filter settings for the game. Traffic Prioritization prioritizes gaming traffic or whatever you have set manually.

A.) Created this, seeking permission for a beta.

B.) That's for Netgear not us, anything in Settings is to do with them

C.) Switch is added in the next update and we will be adding more types in future

D.) Consoles don't require the any specifics but we'll be adding more and more as time goes on

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    Thank you for your reply and the information.  It is very refreshing to see you guys so actively answering questions and replying to your customers (fans) so promptly.  I do feel that you guys have created something very special with DumaOS.  

 

     With that said, I am really struggling to understand the relationship you have with Netgear in regards to the XR500.  

Based on your comments about the VPN solution, it seems you guys on the DumaOS team submit proposed updates, and then Netgear has to test/approve them?  

     

And then, when speaking about UPnP, you said "UPnP on Netgear routers are very good from what I've heard".   Why would this be something you've only heard about, and not something you've actually experienced for yourself, first hand?  Do you guys not have the XR500 in your office, and do you not mess around with them in a live environment?  

 

     Your response to my Port Triggering suggestion was "That's for Netgear not us, anything in Settings is to do with them".  I know this may be the case, but when you look under settings, it still says "DUMAOS" right at the top of the page.  And I'm not trying to be rude with that statement, I'm simply pointing out that, although it may be Netgear who controls that aspect of the router's settings, the OS is still yours.  It has your name on it.  Shouldn't you have some say in the direction Netgear takes this router, in terms of upgrades and features added?  Do you not work closely with them to do so?  I just bought this router less than two weeks ago at Best Buy, and they have a 14 day return policy.  Based on things I've read here in these forums, and other stuff on Reddit, I can see DumaOS is a work in progress, to say the least.  I am more than willing to go on that ride with you.  Again, I feel Duma is superb.  But I am going to need to feel confident that the community will be listened to, and that the DumaOS team can advocate directly to Netgear on behalf of the community.  When I hear you say, basically, that's for Netgear to sort out, that's a pretty big red flag to me.   

 

     To add to this point, your response to my question 3, "Can't answer that but would just port forward if needed but UPnP should be fine" is less than ideal.  In my experience, UPnP doesn't always provide an open NAT.  Although I no longer own a Playstation, back when I owned a PS3, this was most certainly the case.  Port forwarding is okay if you have ONE device that needs access to certain ports.  But what if you have multiple devices/games/services that require the same ports, or a range of ports that overlap.  For example, lets say a voice chat application calls for ports 2330-2340, and a console calls for ports 2335-2345.  If I simply use Port Forwarding for the chat application, now my console can't use the ports that it needs (2335-2340) because they're already being forwarded elsewhere.  This is where Port Triggering is ideal, because you can open a range of ports, for even multiple devices/games/apps that may share a need for them, as they're triggered.    It's also considered more secure, because these ports will be closed by the router after some time.

Here is a video that explains this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO9ZrMyV-M4 

Again, I don't mean to sound rude, but I am perplexed that you aren't familiar with this.

 

In closing, DumaOS is your product.  And if there are certain things that are out of your control, that is definitely understandable.  But it seems crazy to me that your team isn't in a position to at least advocate for certain features to be added on behalf of the customer.  I imagined that the DumaOS team and Netgear are in a partnership together, but perhaps I was wrong.  I guess I will reach out to Netgear and see if they plan to change their Port Triggering interface.  But as it stands, the Port Triggering interface is terrible, in my opinion, and that is just one example of something that I find to be unacceptable for a $300 router to be lacking.  In all honesty, a lot of my decision on whether I keep the router or return it this Friday will hinge on that.  The VPN stuff, I'm willing to wait on, and take your word that it's coming.  Although you didn't go into specifics about being able to customize what gets trafficked through the VPN and what doesn't.

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With that said, I am really struggling to understand the relationship you have with Netgear in regards to the XR500.  

Based on your comments about the VPN solution, it seems you guys on the DumaOS team submit proposed updates, and then Netgear has to test/approve them?  

     

And then, when speaking about UPnP, you said "UPnP on Netgear routers are very good from what I've heard".   Why would this be something you've only heard about, and not something you've actually experienced for yourself, first hand?  Do you guys not have the XR500 in your office, and do you not mess around with them in a live environment?  

 

Your response to my Port Triggering suggestion was "That's for Netgear not us, anything in Settings is to do with them".  I know this may be the case, but when you look under settings, it still says "DUMAOS" right at the top of the page.  And I'm not trying to be rude with that statement, I'm simply pointing out that, although it may be Netgear who controls that aspect of the router's settings, the OS is still yours.  It has your name on it.  Shouldn't you have some say in the direction Netgear takes this router, in terms of upgrades and features added?  Do you not work closely with them to do so?  I just bought this router less than two weeks ago at Best Buy, and they have a 14 day return policy.  Based on things I've read here in these forums, and other stuff on Reddit, I can see DumaOS is a work in progress, to say the least.  I am more than willing to go on that ride with you.  Again, I feel Duma is superb.  But I am going to need to feel confident that the community will be listened to, and that the DumaOS team can advocate directly to Netgear on behalf of the community.  When I hear you say, basically, that's for Netgear to sort out, that's a pretty big red flag to me.   

 

To add to this point, your response to my question 3, "Can't answer that but would just port forward if needed but UPnP should be fine" is less than ideal.  In my experience, UPnP doesn't always provide an open NAT.  Although I no longer own a Playstation, back when I owned a PS3, this was most certainly the case.  Port forwarding is okay if you have ONE device that needs access to certain ports.  But what if you have multiple devices/games/services that require the same ports, or a range of ports that overlap.  For example, lets say a voice chat application calls for ports 2330-2340, and a console calls for ports 2335-2345.  If I simply use Port Forwarding for the chat application, now my console can't use the ports that it needs (2335-2340) because they're already being forwarded elsewhere.  This is where Port Triggering is ideal, because you can open a range of ports, for even multiple devices/games/apps that may share a need for them, as they're triggered.    It's also considered more secure, because these ports will be closed by the router after some time.

Here is a video that explains this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO9ZrMyV-M4 

Again, I don't mean to sound rude, but I am perplexed that you aren't familiar with this.

 

In closing, DumaOS is your product.  And if there are certain things that are out of your control, that is definitely understandable.  But it seems crazy to me that your team isn't in a position to at least advocate for certain features to be added on behalf of the customer.  I imagined that the DumaOS team and Netgear are in a partnership together, but perhaps I was wrong.  I guess I will reach out to Netgear and see if they plan to change their Port Triggering interface.  But as it stands, the Port Triggering interface is terrible, in my opinion, and that is just one example of something that I find to be unacceptable for a $300 router to be lacking.  In all honesty, a lot of my decision on whether I keep the router or return it this Friday will hinge on that.  The VPN stuff, I'm willing to wait on, and take your word that it's coming.  Although you didn't go into specifics about being able to customize what gets trafficked through the VPN and what doesn't.

 

With something as big as an entirely new feature Netgear want it to undergo thorough SQA testing which is understandable. Given this will be our first major feature implementation on the software since launch I do not blame them for wanting to make sure it is as stable as possible before release. It is their product at the end of the day and they have the final say. We do of course give our recommendations/suggestions/input. 

 

I just meant it in a general sense, I know it works as advertised because I manage and test with our own SQA team.

 

We do discuss with Netgear weekly and I believe this is one they are aware of. I am telling you its on Netgears side because it is not something I can directly comment on and any comment other than that could lead to false hope etc. 

 

Everyone with multiple consoles uses UPnP and achieves open NAT on both/all which is why I suggested it. I do not usually have to recommend triggering because of this. If UPnP does not achieve what you want then use Triggering. 

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