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Networking, Lag Compensation, and Hit Detection

Networking Lag Compensation Hit Detection

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#21
A7Legit

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The is speculation originating from a cod player claiming to be a network engineer that because cod servers delay data sent to all in game client machines, the only way to get in synch with game play in call of duty, is to reduce the response rate to the cod servers but i wouldnt know where to start, testing his theory

heres a link to his claim:

https://blog.activis...-2/td-p/9804177

Interesting read.

I knew someone who was using his JTAG Xbox 360, he'd double the rate and then host p2p games for people, the games (MW3, BO1, BO2) would have far better hit registration, people weren't dying behind corners and when you were outgunned you could accept it because it looked legitimate. I had the pleasure of having a few games in his lobby whilst he hosted. It was better, but not perfect.
What I liked so much was he didn't enable any cheating BS, no aim bots or invincibility crap, so I believe the individual who had this idea either started the trend or was fortunate enough to play in such a lobby also.

The devs are aware of this, but I remember reading someone from 3arc I believe saying to double the rates would mean upload and download rates would need to be in excess of 128kbps and that was not going to happen... So they basically said that they went going to improve the game because of bandwidth requirements needing to be faster than a measly 128kbps... It's mid 2016 and these devs are supposedly worried about upping the bandwidth requirements.

I have no more words lol

#22
ColonicBoom

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The is speculation originating from a cod player claiming to be a network engineer that because cod servers delay data sent to all in game client machines, the only way to get in synch with game play in call of duty, is to reduce the response rate to the cod servers but i wouldnt know where to start, testing his theory

 

heres a link to his claim:

 

https://blog.activis...-2/td-p/9804177

 

Interesting read.

 

I'm not able to input anything useful to the technical side of this discussion...

But like he said in that link, I cannot understand the match-making in this game at all.

 

Earlier this evening I had 8 out of 12 in the lobby with 3 to 1 bar connections, while my ping to the dedi was a steady 26ms.

They were from: 2 in Germany, 1 in Ukraine (I think), 1 in Southernmost Italy and 1 in Southernmost Spain, 1 in France, 1 in Finland, 1 in Turkey, 1 in Ireland and 2 in the UK. Needless to say, it was all over the place.

 

What kind of wonky matchmaking is this? On a Saturday evening when surely a lot of UK gamers are playing.

I'm starting to think that this game may have better matchmaking when dedis eventually get dropped and it becomes P2P (not at the moment of course as P2P seems to be reserved for torture-connections). It seems like it will throw anyone into a lobby and there is little effort in match-making as long as it can fill lobbies quickly. And it's not something I used to see very often on the P2P CoDs.


I like cats and cheese and CoD. Don't mix them up, it'll ruin your lunch and your Xbox. And your cat.

#23
Omega

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A7 Legit, after testing out your setup there is no difference whatsoever. To be completely honest, you should count your lucky stars because I haven't had a single game where my hit detection was that good lol. If I use my Nighthawk R7000 I get 500ms of added buffer latency. 500ms is half a second. So if I use the R1 and knock this buffer latency down to 5-10ms, one would expect to see a drastic difference. However, no difference is seen. This can only mean that there is some other factor at play. I'm mainly the M8 anchor player on my team. I've had games where I've recorded hitmarkers on 5 consecutive bursts with long barrel. Mind you it's a 4 bullet kill with the M8. This type of scenario should never happen. And yet in those same games where I'm 5 bursting players, I am getting melted as if I were a zombie and the humans picked up the insta kill powerup. My dslreports grades are all A+ . Quite frankly there is no explanation for this phenomenon which has been dubbed most commonly lag comp. I am at a loss as to what to do to make this game play anywhere near consistently.

#24
A7Legit

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A7 Legit, after testing out your setup there is no difference whatsoever. To be completely honest, you should count your lucky stars because I haven't had a single game where my hit detection was that good lol. If I use my Nighthawk R7000 I get 500ms of added buffer latency. 500ms is half a second. So if I use the R1 and knock this buffer latency down to 5-10ms, one would expect to see a drastic difference. However, no difference is seen. This can only mean that there is some other factor at play. I'm mainly the M8 anchor player on my team. I've had games where I've recorded hitmarkers on 5 consecutive bursts with long barrel. Mind you it's a 4 bullet kill with the M8. This type of scenario should never happen. And yet in those same games where I'm 5 bursting players, I am getting melted as if I were a zombie and the humans picked up the insta kill powerup. My dslreports grades are all A+ . Quite frankly there is no explanation for this phenomenon which has been dubbed most commonly lag comp. I am at a loss as to what to do to make this game play anywhere near consistently.

Ah well, I give up...

I keep getting told I'm lucky, when I too used to rage in BO3, I forced my connection to work and to optimise it for online gaming and VOIP. I think my R1 was bitten by the same spider that bit Peter Parker (Spider-Man).

I think I'll keep what I do to myself in future, sorry it didn't help you bro. :(

Cheers.

#25
ColonicBoom

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A7 Legit, after testing out your setup there is no difference whatsoever. To be completely honest, you should count your lucky stars because I haven't had a single game where my hit detection was that good lol. If I use my Nighthawk R7000 I get 500ms of added buffer latency. 500ms is half a second. So if I use the R1 and knock this buffer latency down to 5-10ms, one would expect to see a drastic difference. However, no difference is seen. This can only mean that there is some other factor at play. I'm mainly the M8 anchor player on my team. I've had games where I've recorded hitmarkers on 5 consecutive bursts with long barrel. Mind you it's a 4 bullet kill with the M8. This type of scenario should never happen. And yet in those same games where I'm 5 bursting players, I am getting melted as if I were a zombie and the humans picked up the insta kill powerup. My dslreports grades are all A+ . Quite frankly there is no explanation for this phenomenon which has been dubbed most commonly lag comp. I am at a loss as to what to do to make this game play anywhere near consistently.

 

He did say that it wouldn't necessarily work for everyone, in fact I'm sure he said somewhere that it might be a placebo and it might work for nobody else.

Bufferbloat only affects you when you connection is maxed out I think, BO3 will never max out anything but the very lowest bandwidth connections though.

I've had hitmarkers with 5 bursts of an M8 too but this isn't a hit detection problem, the fact that you got hit markers shows that the hits were detected and the damage was dealt to the enemy (enemies).

 

Ah well, I give up...

I keep getting told I'm lucky, when I too used to rage in BO3, I forced my connection to work and to optimise it for online gaming and VOIP. I think my R1 was bitten by the same spider that bit Peter Parker (Spider-Man).

I think I'll keep what I do to myself in future, sorry it didn't help you bro. :(

Cheers.

 

 

You sure YOU didn't get bitten by that spider mate? ;)

Don't keep it to yourself, I've been trying some of your suggestions and so far I have nothing negative to report (I just haven't reported anything yet because your mailbox was full when I tried).

Keep up the experimenting and the beasting, the more people experiment then the more chance they have of finding their optimal settings.

Even if people just copy your play-style they will likely improve their performances.

Party on Wayne.


I like cats and cheese and CoD. Don't mix them up, it'll ruin your lunch and your Xbox. And your cat.

#26
Zennon

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Bufferbloat only affects you when you connection is maxed out I think

Yes this is true to many people are hung up on this, it has steam rolled into another beast.

 

Great to combat local congestion it is a must but not a hang up, find the best CC then relax and play never having to fanny around ever again.

 

Iain said 70% each way I thought lets test this set to reactive and banged ping plotter on while I ran speed test after speed test lowering the sliders and watching my ping and what do you know the developer was right ;)



#27
ColonicBoom

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what do you know the developer was right ;)

 

Who'd have thunk it, lol.

I actually don't find 70/70 is my optimal but I'm not going to post what I use because I don't want people to blame me when it doesn't 'fix this broken game + lag comp' ;)


I like cats and cheese and CoD. Don't mix them up, it'll ruin your lunch and your Xbox. And your cat.

#28
A7Legit

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You sure YOU didn't get bitten by that spider mate? ;)

 

I wish!

I had to post a tweet with the bite remark though lol

 



#29
ColonicBoom

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I got bitten by a brown recluse (spider) a few years back, it sucked ;)

 

But seriously, I did get bitten by one of those little bastards.


I like cats and cheese and CoD. Don't mix them up, it'll ruin your lunch and your Xbox. And your cat.

#30
ColonicBoom

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Been trying your setup today Legit, (97/97+hyperlane 3074).

Your 97% gives me A+/A+ as I expected but other than that no dice unfortunately.

 

Don't think anything can help with the 200ms+ players that frequent the European dedis (remember on X1 there's no local dedis - they're all in one place).

They're hard to see because their lag is so erratic and so they're hard to hit at all. They just kind of skip towards you and freeze and then they're in a completely different place and you're dead.

Then when one of them is on your team and near you, you get sucked into the black hole of internet poverty that surrounds them.

 

I don't have a problem with actual hit detection anyway though so I wasn't really expecting a miracle.

 

Really need localised game searches or a stricter ping-cap on games. Anyone under 400ms just doesn't work (although I saw 1800ms the other day on peer-ping). The fact that it's been getting steadily worse makes me think the player pool is drying up and that to get lobbies filled fast it just chucks anyone in.

The game plays nice when everyone in a lobby has a decent ping to the server but that's just getting rarer day by day now.

I'm hoping that when dedi support drops then the P2P will have a chance.

 

Hell, MW3 played near perfectly for 4 years! There doesn't seem to be many people in the pool on the Xbox for that now though.


I like cats and cheese and CoD. Don't mix them up, it'll ruin your lunch and your Xbox. And your cat.

#31
ColonicBoom

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I'd be interested to see your peer-ping graph over the course of a game, see how it compares to what I see.

Obviously we're a long way apart and on different systems but it'd be interesting to see as your games seem to play so differently from the majority of mine.

 

I've had a few games out of about four hours of gaming that didn't have at least a couple of really laggy players.


I like cats and cheese and CoD. Don't mix them up, it'll ruin your lunch and your Xbox. And your cat.

#32
A7Legit

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I'm noticing most people do not enable jitter (jttr) measurement with Ping Plotter.

I do have the older version of PP but it never nags me to pay so I left it at 4.01.2 lol

 

Don't think anything can help with the 200ms+ players that frequent the European dedis (remember on X1 there's no local dedis - they're all in one place).

 

I don't get 200+ms players often but 140-160ms is common. I get people from Singapore joining my dedicated server in Victoria (via Peer Ping). LMAO

 

Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly but my local Victorian server (XB1) is an Azure server, located roughly 23km's from me. PS4 doesn't offer access to any Azure servers, only Choopa LLC and Vultr (they're much better than Choopa) and those are in a neighboring state (New South Wales) for me on PS4.

 

AwPBa0p.png

 

I'd share the IP to confirm furthermore but Iain has asked me in the past not to publicly share IP's of dedi's, just to clarify my Duma does not show IP's (just ID's like everybody else), no special privileges here.

 

Or did you mean there is only one Azure virtual server for all Europeans?

qgYevVV.png

 

I apologize for the lengthy post and you may be thinking why I'm mentioning dedi locations that are of no benefit to you, the honest truth is I did all that for other Aussies who read the thread as we have a small Duma brotherhood in AU. :)



#33
Zennon

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(XB1) is an Azure server, located roughly 23km's from me

I would say this is playing a major part along with skill :)



#34
A7Legit

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I would say this is playing a major part along with skill :)


You don't have to be nice, we all know the low ping and low jitter is the entire reason. lol :)

On PS4 I'm still looking for a Vultr server in Australia but I've settled for an Adelaide Choopa dedi that pings at 22-28ms with about 4ms jitter :| The game play video on my YT channel from the PS4 is from that dedi.

I'd love a Vultr dedi in Victoria (for PS4) but I'm not seeing one, at least not yet.

#35
Paddee1987

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Been trying your setup today Legit, (97/97+hyperlane 3074).

Your 97% gives me A+/A+ as I expected but other than that no dice unfortunately.

 

Don't think anything can help with the 200ms+ players that frequent the European dedis (remember on X1 there's no local dedis - they're all in one place).

They're hard to see because their lag is so erratic and so they're hard to hit at all. They just kind of skip towards you and freeze and then they're in a completely different place and you're dead.

Then when one of them is on your team and near you, you get sucked into the black hole of internet poverty that surrounds them.

 

I don't have a problem with actual hit detection anyway though so I wasn't really expecting a miracle.

 

Really need localised game searches or a stricter ping-cap on games. Anyone under 400ms just doesn't work (although I saw 1800ms the other day on peer-ping). The fact that it's been getting steadily worse makes me think the player pool is drying up and that to get lobbies filled fast it just chucks anyone in.

The game plays nice when everyone in a lobby has a decent ping to the server but that's just getting rarer day by day now.

I'm hoping that when dedi support drops then the P2P will have a chance.

 

Hell, MW3 played near perfectly for 4 years! There doesn't seem to be many people in the pool on the Xbox for that now though.

when you hyperlane 3074 do you do tcp and udp?



#36
A7Legit

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when you hyperlane 3074 do you do tcp and udp?


When it comes to games, rule of thumb, only UDP.

TCP are not fast enough for latency intensive tasks such as gaming in general.

Easy to understand...



#37
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Ok so I decided to play cod ghosts since bo3 was unplayable last nite after the update. I am now convinced that the issues I and many others have been facing in bo3 are not due to our connections. The hit detection was literally flawless. My hit detection on ghosts rivalled the anomaly seen in A7 Legits videos of his hit detection on bo3. For a game with 1000 players online, one would think the connection would be less than ideal at best, yet it was quite the opposite. It was a very pleasant experience being able to play the game without complaining about all the bs that occurs in bo3. Can anyone explain why this is the case?

#38
fuzzy clam

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IMO the coding was better on Ghosts > better hit detection and a faster time to kill also helped a ton.Again this is just my opinion as others will disagree and hated the game,so it's really all subjective.

 

But I loved Ghosts compared to AW and BO3 and will probably go back and play it again as BO3 has been a pain in the ass lately and not much fun for me anyway.



frustrated I just got a new NETDUMA, and I can't connect, how do I get the password for the Wi-Fi

:P


#39
KayOneX-24

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Any PC players of Ghosts, AW or Black Ops 1,2 or 3 in here ?  :)


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BFH XBONE

 

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...Listening to the music of Rocco Hunt while playing...


#40
iAmMoDBoX

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Ok so I decided to play cod ghosts since bo3 was unplayable last nite after the update. I am now convinced that the issues I and many others have been facing in bo3 are not due to our connections. The hit detection was literally flawless. My hit detection on ghosts rivalled the anomaly seen in A7 Legits videos of his hit detection on bo3. For a game with 1000 players online, one would think the connection would be less than ideal at best, yet it was quite the opposite. It was a very pleasant experience being able to play the game without complaining about all the bs that occurs in bo3. Can anyone explain why this is the case?

 

At the end of the day it comes down to, is the lag on your side or not? This is the randomness they want in the game to give everyone a fair chance at getting some kills. When you're having a shitty game and getting melted and shot around corners, Timmy no thumbs is having the game of his life.


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