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Preliminary Lag Compensation Experiment Findings


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#41
A7Legit

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I've stopped testing regularly now, but i tested for a few days until i had an A+ bb at 97% for both sliders. I also tested 10 different times throughout those 3 days and each time i had an A+ so i was content with leaving it there. 

 

Are you even checking your Bufferbloat anymore?  Or have you just found a setting that is working and stopped there?

 

I'll give it a try if I ever get a chance to get back on BO3.  I am always up for trying something new. :D

 

Just a message for all interested, that game wasn't a one off, 90-95% of my games are like that and if people don't believe that, i can post more vids...

I don't blame people for being skeptical, but i can prove it and I'm happy to.



#42
Zennon

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I am not disputing anything a good player is a good player no matter where you put the congestion control.

 

Play on 70% and you will do just fine, put it on 20% again you will do fine.

 

People are looking at your game play and other users game play and thinking its the % or the hard throttle it is not, it is the players tactics and reactions combined with their ISP connection non of which can be transferred by a setting apart from a close host and the reduction of local congestion by the duma.



#43
A7Legit

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I am not disputing anything a good player is a good player no matter where you put the congestion control.

 

Play on 70% and you will do just fine, put it on 20% again you will do fine.

 

People are looking at your game play and other users game play and thinking its the % or the hard throttle it is not, it is the players tactics and reactions combined with their ISP connection non of which can be transferred by a setting apart from a close host and the reduction of local congestion by the duma.

 

Whilst what you're saying holds validity, connection is king in COD, it will always be.

 

When BO3 first dropped, I throttled my connection to get a one up on everyone, but that changed with hotfixes, so my games took a decline/fall for the worse. By the time the bigger patches arrived (i.e. 1.07) the game was terrible for me, rage inducing even.

 

I had to re-test my connection and how it worked, however it's the same connection, same game play style, my reactions have not changed for an older gamer and I use the same monitor still, if anything my eyes are worse than before as they're degrading sadly...

 

Whilst 97% won't be the "magic number" for everyone, hell, it may not help anyone other than myself, the number isn't most important, the bufferbloat under some load was and for me that was 97% but I specified that already.

 

The important aspect to consider here may possibly be the PFiFo/Hyper-Traffic settings. It's no secret I've been reading, reading and reading some more and I'm trying to mix up and incorporate what I learn at the rate I'm learning, for me it's changing this game and busting it wide open to my benefit.

 

Every COD plays almost exactly like this for me, with AW being slightly more stubborn.

 

Edit: BO3 has an update 1.10, I'm keen on seeing how my setup will hold up and if things will suffer or not.



#44
Zennon

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For me the buffer bloat thing was blown way out of proportion and I wish I never brought up or had my name mentioned in the same breath.

 

Bloat is when your connection is maxing out giving your line jitter so the only time it would be of any use is if you had a family member streaming or downloading at close to max of your bandwidth, which I need as my son streams.



#45
A7Legit

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Bloat is when your connection is maxing out giving your line jitter so the only time it would be of any use is if you had a family member streaming or downloading at close to max of your bandwidth, which I need as my son streams.

 

I actually came to learn about bufferbloat from Dave Taht with whom I've tweeted back and forth in the past, but I'm aware that you opened the eyes of many to it here. I don't think you did anything wrong in that respect, because many of us stream audio and video services (up and down) and many of us have those users on our networks that don't take no for an answer when requested they ease up on the bandwidth so it's absolutely useful and a necessity at times.



#46
Dillinger

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Gave it a whirl last night for about 2 hours of off and on gaming on Blops 3.  I hadn't played anything in about a week, and I haven't touched this game in over 2.

 

I honestly didn't notice anything different.  If anything, it seemed like I was being killed easier and was falling to that damn Weevil at every turn.

 

I am going to give Overwatch a try this weekend and see what the hype is about.


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#47
Zennon

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Oh yeah I just mentioned it after learning about it myself A7 :)

 

I really like overwatch but some do not, so do not get over hyped JD :)



#48
Dillinger

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I really like overwatch but some do not, so do not get over hyped JD :)

 

Sorry, that should have been "hype", with my intent to give it a go and see if it's for me.  It's a free Beta and I certainly don't hold you, or anyone, accountable for my enjoyment of a new game.  I'm a big boy and can waste my time if I want without having to "blame" anyone if it is indeed a wasted effort.  At least I will know first hand.  :D


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#49
Zennon

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I cant wait to get home and whack it on, a real fun game for sure for me.



#50
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I have a major issue with 3-bar players (100+ms), I see the lone 3-bar in the lobby topping the leaderboard with a ridiculous score so often. The ones that lag and skip so bad you can't predict their movement specifically - they freeze mid-air and then they're beside you and you're dead.


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#51
Binary

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I was actually one of the first people to predict Netduma would soon face the backlash from lag compensation, and it seems they've finally begun to listen / learn the hard way.

 

The original Tweet: twitter.com/bina7y/status/602853737271549955

 

Netduma ignorantly discredited what I was saying, and didn't believe a word of it.

 

Since this is the main active thread upon the subject of lag compensation, I figured I would drop some information:

 

First of all, the netcode which governs lag compensation is smart enough to detect any artificially induced latency, packet loss, jitter in general, etc.

This is prevented using the Lockstep protocol - https://en.wikipedia...ckstep_protocol

 

So I would be fascinated if you're able to produce any real results off host. I guarantee you will fall victim to the placebo effect.

 

As for bufferbloat nothing fixes this quite like SQM and fq_codel, but this will not solve your lag compensation problems.

 

Good luck with your findings, I will be sure to dispel any nonsense when I see it.



#52
Victor-Yout

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First of all, the netcode which governs lag compensation is smart enough to detect any artificially induced latency, packet loss, jitter in general, etc.
This is prevented using the Lockstep protocol - [url="https://en.wikipedia...ckstep_protocol[/url


True words in my opinion lag comp includes these factors.

#53
Victor-Yout

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First of all, the netcode which governs lag compensation is smart enough to detect any artificially induced latency, packet loss, jitter in general, etc.
This is prevented using the Lockstep protocol - [url="https://en.wikipedia...ckstep_protocol[/url


True words in my opinion lag comp includes these factors.

#54
A7Legit

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There must be a better explanation for advantageous lag compensation than distance lag, for example, I'm from Australia, I play BO3 between the 2 dedicated servers yet due to 3arc and Acti decisions I have players from New Zealand and as far as players from Singapore in these Aussie dedi lobbies and they get smacked around round by round. 

 

Distance lag nor lag compensation favoring them, I'm the one smacking them around with 23km's distance to the dedi here in Victoria. 

 

Here's a new quick vid (different from the other in this thread), intent is to show consistent hit detection/registration in BO3.

https://youtu.be/8t2Ysf5zV08



#55
Madman

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I hosted my group and I could honestly say I did not experience any advantage. People were actually laughing and telling me that they shot me around walls. But you have all my footage as well. Lol

I wonder if just hosting a lobby of friends affects anything, I've seen a lot of talk of hosting a game but nothing about hosting a lobby.  When I'm not hosting the lobby I seem to do better, I also see that we are joining the same area of dedicated servers as well.  I don't know it maybe a placebo effect.  Any thoughts?


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#56
major masingil

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I was actually one of the first people to predict Netduma would soon face the backlash from lag compensation, and it seems they've finally begun to listen / learn the hard way.
 
The original Tweet: twitter.com/bina7y/status/602853737271549955
 
Netduma ignorantly discredited what I was saying, and didn't believe a word of it.
 
Since this is the main active thread upon the subject of lag compensation, I figured I would drop some information:
 
First of all, the netcode which governs lag compensation is smart enough to detect any artificially induced latency, packet loss, jitter in general, etc.
This is prevented using the Lockstep protocol - https://en.wikipedia...ckstep_protocol
 
So I would be fascinated if you're able to produce any real results off host. I guarantee you will fall victim to the placebo effect.
 
As for bufferbloat nothing fixes this quite like SQM and fq_codel, but this will not solve your lag compensation problems.
 
Good luck with your findings, I will be sure to dispel any nonsense when I see it.


Dude, being a know it all, I told you so kinda guy is super annoying. Sitting back and waiting to dispel nonsense, is weak. If you have something real to contribute then by all means contribute, or if you're so smart, write the code to combat the issue yourself and start your own gaming router company. You'll be doing the gaming community a favor. My guess is, it's not that easy or everyone would be doing it

I've read and seen a bunch that indicates low ping is ultimately king no matter what the lag comp is doing. The R1 helps the user control their own network lag and also helps to find low ping lobbies. There are several threads here that indicated moving or home location is an option to experiment with combating the effects of lag comp... just like was recommended to you on Mar 25 2015. So why all the venom? Are you jealous of Netduma's innovation?

The purpose of this thread is to inform us all of the findings of their experiment. The one they created to help us all see the reality behind the myths of lag comp. So let's see what their finding's actually are, and then you can tell us all about how stupid we are and how smart you are. In so doing, you will provide me with a good laugh. Thanks in advance.

#57
killerkenmccoy

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Did i miss the video on this topic?

#58
PharmDawgg

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Did i miss the video on this topic?

No video was ever issued.  I believe this project has been sidelined at the moment.



#59
killerkenmccoy

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Cool, thx bro

#60
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It will be our next network myths video. Before that though focusing on game support and revamping the wiki.


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